I see "aroma therapy" all over eBay now in regarding to mods, tanks and wire and to get around the USPS the shipper can just drop the packages off at the post office using their home address as the shipper address as opposed to using their business address with their business name of vape whatever which will cause a flag.
FDA Has there been any updates yet?
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I understand how you can think that.
But I am pretty sure that's not how it's going to go down.
Certain "paraphernalia" mostly gets a pass because nobody REALLY cares.
And even then, sometimes someone decides to care and they run a sweep.
It happened here where I live in Vista, CA and they took all inventory from all "tobacco" shops.
But when it comes to vaping products, there are a LOT of people that care.
Like a huge, well-funded army, with massive experience in getting what they want.
So yeah, don't count on any workarounds working out the way you hope.
Im just talking about if worst comes to worst with the fda regs, we will still be able to buy high end mods from modders and pleanty of people /companies will make the loopholes in the regulations work for them. One thing i like about the law, people screw up writing them , and smart crafty people make it around the law without breaking it
I can certainly understand and respect your perspective on this issue however a few points for your consideration:
Used in numerous places in the final rule is The FDA’s “intended or reasonably expected” catch all. So it's not only intended use
The FDA has used and will continue to use "enforcement discretion" so if a given section in the final produces "crafty people" with workarounds, the FDA slams the door.
If we have no significant judicial intervention and or Congressional intervention, then nearly all of the "conventional sources" will vanish during the next few years and the black/gray market will emerge. Only BT and a very small number of vaping players will survive. Of course, their will be a few players that fly under the radar because the FDA either doesn't care about them or lacks the enforcement resources BUT your choices will be severally constricted. I'm speaking about the FDA and that's the federal level and of course at the local/state/city level we have already seen draconian actions and my best guess is that at the local level these actions will get even worse and effectively propagate across the USA.
Weather you or anyone else agrees with me (+ others) or your views, is to a large exstent not the best way to proceed today. The more prudent thing to do is stock up today with your supplies. Then, if I'm wrong /lol you have plenty of supplies to last and have not wasted your money.
just my 2 cents worth.
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That's possibly the best summary I've seen yet of what's up.just my 2 cents worth.
Nice work.
May survive. They will have the resources to do the PMTAs but there is no guarantee that the FDA will accept them. Only one has been approved - Swedish Match - so far, and that took 100,000 pages of data. And:
In August, 2014, FDA accepted Swedish Match’s Modified Risk Tobacco Product (MRTP) application as complete. As of the publication of this annual report, Swedish Match still awaits the final decision from the FDA.
Upon Sweden’s entry into the EU in 1995, the country was granted a permanent exemption from the sales ban on snus.
But:
In 2013, the Tobacco Products Directive 2001/37/EC underwent a process of revision. The new directive (2014/40/EU) was approved by the European parliament in February 2014 and by the European Council in April 2014. The sales ban on snus will remain in the EU.
Swedish Match - Snus and regulations
They(those of a particular view - socia... er... you know :- ) never give up, which is why we can never give up.
Ive been stocking up, i have a solid local juice source thats gonna go underground as soon as forced , ive been buying mechs, mech squonkers, several vapor giant tanks and any other high quality atomizers and mods that have replacement parts available to buy separately. Also some new Chinese rtas that i like, and cheaper proven vw devices. Im looking for some diy dna 40,75,200 kits to have around for myself or friends in need. Wire and cotton wont be a problem. Nicotine is used as insecticide so it will be around if i end up needing to make juice and its hard to get online. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
There is some hope with synthetic nicotine. We'll have to wait and see what develops with the various court cases and whether they rule that a non-tobacco product can be classified as such. If the courts spank the FDA again, synthetic nicotine will take off in a huge way.
AND of course it's worth mentioning that in the event that the courts intervene with respect to Synthetic NIC in the context of a "tobacco product", the FDA can regulate Synthetic NIC as a "drug". They have a track record of this action with NIC water and believe it or not lollipops that contain NIC. For example, look at "patches" which dribble NIC into your body. Those are regulated as a "drug" by our close friends at the FDA.
Again, PLEASE PLEASE stock up on NIC. Even if you don't DIY, you can use your NIC base to barter for vaping stuff you may need.
Again, PLEASE PLEASE stock up on NIC. Even if you don't DIY, you can use your NIC base to barter for vaping stuff you may need.
Considering the only difference between natural and synthetic nicotine is the placement of a single atom (both have the exact same molecular formula of C10H14N2), I doubt that the FDA could classify synthetic nicotine as a drug without incurring the wrath of the courts again. They tried that one already with natural nicotine and we all know what the results of that fiasco was.
Interesting point Professor retired1
Another ECF thread on Synthetic NIC: E-Cigs Are Going Tobacco-Free With Synthetic Nicotine
Another ECF thread on Synthetic NIC: E-Cigs Are Going Tobacco-Free With Synthetic Nicotine
Hmm I wonder if synthetic nic would already fall under the broad laws against Designer Drugs?
Again, they can't as it has the exact same molecular formula as natural nicotine. The courts smacked the bejeebers out of the FDA when they attempted to classify e-cigarettes as a drug delivery device.
The only reason the FDA failed in their attempt to classify electronic cigarettes as a drug is because Judge Leon said they are a recreational tobacco product. If we use synthetic nicotine instead, it seems to me we would lost that protection. Synthetic nicotine is not EXACTLY the same as natural nicotine, as you previously noted, so it could get interesting.
OK Girls and Boys!
Lets look at the other side of the coin and that's the deeming with respect to Synthetic NIC. Credit to Professor Kent C for his exstratct from the final:
"(Comment 164) Some comments sought clarification as to FDA's authority over e-liquids
that do not contain nicotine or other chemicals derived from tobacco plants and those e-liquids
that contain nicotine derived from a nontobacco source (e.g., eggplants or tomatoes). Others
claimed that FDA does not have regulatory authority over e-cigarettes that are refillable and do
not contain nicotine, but does have authority over e-liquids if the liquid contains nicotine. Yet,
some said that e-liquids used in e-cigarettes should have an entirely new classification, because
use of the words "tobacco product" in marketing materials would cause undue confusion for
consumers.
pg257
(Response) As stated in section 201(rr) of the FD&C Act, the definition of "tobacco
product" includes any product made or derived from tobacco, including any component, part, or
accessory of a tobacco product. An e-liquid made or derived from tobacco meets this definition
and, therefore, is subject to FDA's chapter IX authorities. E-liquids that do not contain nicotine
or other substances derived from tobacco may still be components or parts and, therefore, subject
to FDA's tobacco control authorities, if they are an assembly of materials intended or reasonably
expected to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product and do not meet the
definition of accessory.
Source: Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
Another interesting member post about an interview with Next Generation Labs at: Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
EDIT: Looks like fertile ground for a court case on either the final rule or the drug pathway. Which of course brings into question the realities (not the validity of the claim) of weather a given plaintiff has very very deep pockets to fight. That's 6 or 7 figures over the course of perhaps years! I could be wrong but I see no indication that the current producers of Synthetic NIC have deep pockets.
Lets look at the other side of the coin and that's the deeming with respect to Synthetic NIC. Credit to Professor Kent C for his exstratct from the final:
"(Comment 164) Some comments sought clarification as to FDA's authority over e-liquids
that do not contain nicotine or other chemicals derived from tobacco plants and those e-liquids
that contain nicotine derived from a nontobacco source (e.g., eggplants or tomatoes). Others
claimed that FDA does not have regulatory authority over e-cigarettes that are refillable and do
not contain nicotine, but does have authority over e-liquids if the liquid contains nicotine. Yet,
some said that e-liquids used in e-cigarettes should have an entirely new classification, because
use of the words "tobacco product" in marketing materials would cause undue confusion for
consumers.
pg257
(Response) As stated in section 201(rr) of the FD&C Act, the definition of "tobacco
product" includes any product made or derived from tobacco, including any component, part, or
accessory of a tobacco product. An e-liquid made or derived from tobacco meets this definition
and, therefore, is subject to FDA's chapter IX authorities. E-liquids that do not contain nicotine
or other substances derived from tobacco may still be components or parts and, therefore, subject
to FDA's tobacco control authorities, if they are an assembly of materials intended or reasonably
expected to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product and do not meet the
definition of accessory.
Source: Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
Another interesting member post about an interview with Next Generation Labs at: Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
EDIT: Looks like fertile ground for a court case on either the final rule or the drug pathway. Which of course brings into question the realities (not the validity of the claim) of weather a given plaintiff has very very deep pockets to fight. That's 6 or 7 figures over the course of perhaps years! I could be wrong but I see no indication that the current producers of Synthetic NIC have deep pockets.
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