Help to Vape Safe Please

[ecfSim]

After reading through a few threads here on ECF I've become concerned and a bit confused about how to minimize potential health risks that may/ may not be associated with vaping different flavored liquids.

I've always avoided flavors known to contain dactyl, but it's news to me that I also need to be concerned about other ingredients that could potentially be harmful when inhaled. So far I've seen concerns regarding diacetyl, but more recently also acetyl propionyl and acetone, which can contain, or can metabolize into, dactyl (if my understanding is correct). I've also seen concerns regarding hexane and petroleum ether, although I'm not entirely sure what the concerns are here.

I have done a fair bit of research, but I'm still uncertain which flavors are generally considered 'safe'. Due to recently developing an eczema-type skin condition, I'm playing it safe and taking my vape back to basics with unflavored PG, which I know I'm good with, but I'm struggling without having a goto flavor.

So my questions are:

1. Are there any other ingredients that I haven't listed that I should be concerned about.

2. Can anyone provide links or info relative to concerns about hexane and petroleum ether.

3. Is anyone willing to offer a list of, say, 10 flavors that are generally considered safe to vape, as far as current understanding goes. I've read that tobacco flavors and menthol-type flavors are probably ok, but I suspect that hexane and petroleum ether might be an issue with tobacco flavors after reading a post on the PA website. I am also particularly interested in your opinions as to whether plain vanilla is safe, because I bought an awful lot of it to use as a DIY base liquid, and I can't find a definitive answer about this flavor.

Any links, info, opinions much appreciated.

 

[Shantia]

diacetyl has inhalation risks yes, that ingredient is used in flavors like butter, vanilla custard (some flavors do not initially contain diacetyl, but the ingredients acetoin and acetyl propionyl can catalyze into diacetyl.), and various other flavors that require that buttery rich taste. i don't believe acetoin and acetyl propionyl are harmful by themselves (remember we're all new to this so very little information exists on long term effects).

My belief is that you need to be exposed to pretty high concentrations of diacetyl on a daily basis to develop "popcorn lung"..But i dont know, there are very few cases on the disease. One guy claims to have developed popcorn lung by simply microwaving two bags of popcorn a day and 'sniffing' the scent as they popped. He's attempting to sue the store for not putting proper warnings on the box itself, but my guess is he heard about the factory workers who were exposed to much higher concentrations on a daily basis, and started huffing popcorn bags to make some money.

Generally..Stay away from flavors that contain acetoin and acetyl propionyl if you are nervous about safety implications, those ingredients do have a chance of catalyzing into diacetyl. As for any other ingredients that might be harmful i have no idea..Can't imagine anything in the acetoin and acetyl propionyl free flavors being more harmful then the poison's you inhale from a cigarette. But long term who knows. Might die one day when i'm old from vaping, but atleast i'm happier doing it.

 

[Shantia]

I found this section on vanilla from wikipedia rather interesting!
Vanilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vanilla being mildly addictive ...*giggles* interesting. Also states that vanilla is used in aromatherapy. Now while aromatherapy is a bit different from directly inhaling the ingredient into you're lungs ...I would consider vanilla no more harmful on a short term basis then wearing vanilla perfume, using it in aromatherapy, using vanilla candles etc.

Truly i think you need to decide how much of a risk are you willing to take. There is no way to know how these things will effect our body 10-60 years from now. We do know how cigarette smoke will eventually end up, either in lung cancer, COPD, or emphysema or some kind of lung issue whether it is just decreased lung capacity or one something more severe. The human body is crazy different. Some people can smoke their whole lives and live to be 100. *shrug*

 

[ecfSim]

Thanks you for your help and replies Shantia, especially the info on vanilla.

I agree that whatever we vape (within reason!) it is far less harmful than smoking- so much so that it's almost incomparable. I even read on one thread that eating fried or roasted food poses considerably more health risks than vaping most flavors, including those containing diacetyl!

It's the lack of certainty that concerns me - it wasn't so long ago that smoking was generally considered healthy. My rule of thumb for most things is that a little bit of what you fancy does you good, but when it comes to vaping I'm doing it all day, every day, and so I want my vape to be as clean and safe as possible. For the last year I haven't worried at all, except to avoid diacetyl, because I figured vaping is far less damaging than cigarettes, but one year in and vaping 4 to 5mls daily, I'm getting a little more choosy.

My understanding is that it is the diketone flavoring compounds that present the most cause for concern. These include diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and hexanedione, but I don't know what the others are, and more importantly, which flavors might contain them.

Diacetyl only affects a certain percentage of the population who are susceptible, but for those people, every molecule of diacetyl that comes into contact with lung tissue kills a tiny piece of the lung, which never recovers. Acetyl propionyl and acetone are often used as a replacement for diacetyl, but they are never 100% pure, and large percentage of the impurity is diacetyl itself (as much as 7%).

Hexane is a neurotoxin that can be present in tobacco absolute as a bi-product of the production process. It can cause temporary or long-term paralysis/ paresthesia in susceptible people.

That's about as far as I have got, and so I'm still looking for more info if anyone can point me in the right direction.

The vanilla wiki-link made me chuckle - the fact that it's addictive might explain why I'm struggling a bit with unflavored liquid, even though I love the clean taste. Actually, going back to unflavored I've been surprised how much of the vapour taste that I like is due to the PG/VG/Nic, and how little had to do with the flavoring!

Links:

The Flavorist Workshop
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/141274-flavourart-remove-all-diacetyl-their-flavorings.html

 

[Shantia]

I'm 31 and smoking has never been considered healthy in my life time. I remember being a little girl and my grandmother who smoked heavily came for a visit and I basically told her she shouldn't smoke and that it was bad etc. (we children can be so annoying like that) Well she responded to me saying that her doctor told her to smoke because it helped stopped her runny nose.

Thinking back on that story now it makes me chuckle for two reasons. As a smoking adult i never appreciated people telling me how bad smoking was...i knew..i was making my choice. Yet as a child i was advocating against it. And the other thing that makes me chuckle is my grandmother's response. Now I know she was in her prime during the 20's when smoking was extremely popular (and probably also a lot healthier, i'm sure more and more chemicals and additives have been thrown into cigarettes since then) and that is probably also the time she got that advice from her doctor lol. She lived to be 96 and died of complications due to breaking her hip.

Anyway sorry, just thought i'd share that little story.

I dont think i could vape flavorless juice. Atleast not with the nicotine i have right now. I know i should avoid the vanilla custard, and i tried. But everyone raved so much about it i had to try it "just once". This is where that vanilla addiction comes in i'm sure because now that i've tried it i cant seem to stop using it *sigh*. It goes so good with everything lol.

 

[ecfSim]

I agree that whatever we vape (within reason!) it is far less harmful than smoking- so much so that it's almost incomparable. I even read on one thread that eating fried or roasted food poses considerably more health risks than vaping most flavors, including those containing diacetyl!

I'm not trying to convert anyone to flavorless. I understand that a lot of people are very happy to vape diacetyl and I totally respect individual choice. I'm just looking for more information so that I can make an informed decision about the flavors that I want to vape. At present, I don't know enough to decide which ones are safe (for me) with any certainty. I was hoping someone here at the DIY sub-forum could help me out. What I'm really looking for is 10 or 12 super-safe flavors that I can vape with relative peace of mind, and ideally not just fruit flavors. I didn't realize that this was such a big ask.

Thanks for your help so far.

 

[Shantia]

Well, if you dont mind waiting for a shipment...Flavor art has a detailed list of which of their flavors contain diacetyl and how much of it. Very nice of them to test their flavors like that for us Uhm, Flavor West claims to be a 100% diacetyl free flavoring company and TPA puts warnings on any flavor that contains these 'custard' ingredients on the flavor's descriptions. I think tho you are asking a pretty darn hard to answer question, since most ingredients in flavors are listed as 'natural and artificial flavoring', PG, ethyl alc, VG ...sometimes Triacetin which reacts very badly to cheap clearomizer plastic tubes.

So its a hard question to answer, not knowing the full list of those natural and artificial ingredients . I do like that a lot of flavoring suppliers are taking steps to warn of flavors known to contain ingredients that have inhalation risks! *hugs to the vendors*.