Help: Which Battery: Samsung INR18650-20R or Sony US18650V3 ?

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Baddog, Sep 12, 2013.

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  1. Baddog

    Baddog Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Just need some quick help selecting a battery. Most of my builds are ‘not’ sub ohm but I would just like to use the safest battery and have the option should I venture into sub ohm builds. Of these two, which is the better/safer battery?
     
  2. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Between those two choices, I'd say the Samsung is the clear winner with its 20 cont. max. discharge rating. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?357962-Test-Review-of-Samsung-INR18650-20R-2000mAh-(Green)

    http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=106

    For serious and safe sub ohm builds that specification is most important. You'd have to go with the Sony VTC3 1600mah, MNKE 1500mah, or AW 1600mah IMR's to do better from the choices in the below list. Personally, I feel the the IMR's would be the "safer" choice being that they are a safer chemistry with a higher tolerance to heat, and less likely to vent or throw flames than the Li Ion Samsung. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/432181-need-help-picking-best-battery-sub-ohm-vaping.html

    battery model/mAh/cont. max. discharge

    Samsung Li Ion (LiNiCoMnP)
    INR18650-20R 2000mah 20A

    Sony IMR
    us18650v3 IMR 2250mAh 10A

    Sony Li Ion
    SE US18650VTC3 1600mAh 30

    Panasonic hybrid
    CGR18650CH 2250mAh 10A
    NCR18650PD 2900mAh 10A

    AW IMR
    18650 2000mah 10A
    18650 1600mah 24A

    EFEST IMR
    18650 2000mah 10A

    MNKE
    IMR18650 1500mah 20A

    (resource - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/420323-imr-batteries-what-exactly-does-imr-mean.html#post9600523)

    The above info is accurate to the best of my knowledge.
     
  3. Baddog

    Baddog Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks Baditude. It will be a 'backup' battery for the AW IMR's. I have some credit on an Fasttech order and they don't sell the AW IMR's. I was unsure if the Sony US18650V3's might be 'safer' being 'manganese' based rather than the 'nickel oxide' of the Samsungs. I am trying to up to speed on battery technology and how it relates to PV's but I just need to add a battery to my Fasttech order and options are limited. Safety is my primary concern.
    Thanks so much for the help!
     
  4. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Well, I learned something today. Thanks for pointing out that the Sony US18650V3 is an IMR which I was able to confirm here: AkkuDB. That information changes my former recommendation. I'm perplexed about which of the two choices is a better/safer battery for sub ohm. Either battery should perform safely if used under normal vaping situations. But sub ohms place added power demands on batteries.

    On one hand, high drain IMR's with a higher cont. max. discharge rate are recommended for use for sub ohm use. The Sony now fits into that category.

    And on the other hand, the Samsung has twice the cont. max. discharge as the Sony, so does that make it a safer choice for sub ohms, despite its Li Ion chemistry? I've seen no info that the Samsung is protected, so is it safe to use in a mech mod in a high demand use?

    :blink:

    Battery manufacturers and vendors need to do a better job of listing battery chemistry and battery class, and provide specifications for said batteries in the product description.

    Perhaps some of the more knowledgeable battery experts can add to this discussion?
     
  5. st0nedpenguin

    st0nedpenguin Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

    The Samsung is an INR battery, it's a safer chemistry.
     
  6. 23skidoo

    23skidoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    A bit off topic but relevant to the vendor you have a credit with- there are some concerns with all lithium batteries being shipped out of China by air. They are sending back some packages with lithium batteries to the vendors trying to ship them. That could mean you won't be able to get your battery of choice delivered normally.

    You can read more about it HK Post: Delay In Outbound Air Mail Services (10 September 2013): FastTech Forums

    Since it's a backup for you it may not make any difference, but I just want you to be aware of what's happening.
     
  7. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Thank you Jesus. ;) Do you have a link to the INR being a safe chemistry battery? My current knowlege is that only IMR and hybrid batteries are safe chemistry.
     
  8. Baddog

    Baddog Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Not off topic at all 23skidoo, quite relevant actually. I was unaware of this issue. I will definitely take this into consideration on my Fasttech orders.

    As far as specs go the Samsung would appear to be the better battery. As to which one is safer I am unsure. Thanks for your input Baditude.
     
  9. st0nedpenguin

    st0nedpenguin Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

    There was a discussion in one of the threads on one of the flashlight forums, can't for the life of me remember which one it was now though.
     
  10. tenshi

    tenshi Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    The only place that says INR is safer than IMR batteries is in flashlight wiki... I don't believe anything in Wiki since it's not a reliable source. I have been trying to confirm it because I, too, am smitten with the Samsung INR18650-20R 2000mAh results due to it being able to deliver the high current but AW IMR 18650 1600mAh has such a long track record of safety so I mainly stick with those or the MNKE until I get confirmation. I have written a few times about INR chemistry safety tests but no response yet.
     
  11. articus

    articus Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Was about to say the same, no more batteries from fastech, check USA vendors.
    Personal recommendation is: Panasonic CGR18650CH
    Got two for $17, arrived in 3 days since placed the order!
    Brand New "2" Panasonic CGR18650CH Li ion Rechargeable Battery 3 7V 2250mAh | eBay
     
  12. st0nedpenguin

    st0nedpenguin Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

    They're the same chemistry as the Panasonic CGR18650CH which have been considered safe chemistry batteries for a good while now.

    Edit: I should state that's according to the wiki in question.
     
  13. Jerms

    Jerms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    I too would like to see some reliable, tested info on the safety of INR compared to IMR and ICR.

    I don't have any sources for this, but when I did some quick research before buying some of the Samsung-20R, I got the impression INR is comparible to ICR, possibly being a little safer but not as safe as IMR. I'm talking in terms of what happens when during a critical meltdown. Whether that's true I can't say; not only do I not remember the source I can't say that I remember if it was even a reliable source.

    But, even if it's at the same level of ICR, does the high amp limit mean it'll be safe for me to use unprotected? I wish I could find out for sure, but until more info is available I did feel comfortable enough to buy four of them (from FastTech, so don't know if I'll actually receive them).

    I'm normally a.. stick with IMR guy, at the very least a well-tested hybrid like the 2 Panny options; but the high amp limit is comforting to me. Still want to see those tests.


    Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. st0nedpenguin

    st0nedpenguin Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

    If you narrow down all the possibilities for the chemistry it's using, they're all considered safer than LI-On, which was more than good enough for me.

    I also haven't seen a battery with that kind of high drain capability that WASN'T a safer chemistry.
     
  15. Jerms

    Jerms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    They are all li-ion (lithium-ion).

    ICR being lithium-cobalt, IMR being lithium-manganese, INR being lithium-colbalt-nickel-manganese (hybrid?). I've also seen mention INR being lithium-nickel-manganese (without the cobalt).

    I'm not sure if the general statement that high-drain means safer chemistry is accurate. I think it may be the case, but would like to see real sources before saying it.

    Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2
     
  16. tenshi

    tenshi Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Yeah I use those in my electronic mods some times but that's only because there are all kinds of protection built in them. Those are really nice for a longer life. For any low ohm/mechanical builds, I just stick with AW 18650 1600 (not the 2000) and/or MNKE but am awaiting for more info on the Samsungs, Sanyo and Sony types that I am interested in. I have enough batteries anyway, so I don't mind the wait hehe.... and I find myself addicted to all those battery forums too .:?:
     
  17. wsteven321

    wsteven321 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    ive been using the panasonic cgr batteries for a while now, and they are very versatile for apvs and mechs. but now ive switched from my vamo to a mech with an rsst using sub ohm coils. The panasonics are still good for sub ohm, but you shouldnt really go under .6 ohms with them. I saw a post on vapor joes about the mnke batteries so i just ordered 2 of them.

    you can grab them for $7.59 each (discounted from $7.99 by using lovetovape5 as a coupon code). These batteries are normally 14 bux each so its a great deal, and if ive learned anything from good deals, they tend to sell out quickly....esp if they are on vaporjoes.
     
  18. kuyaalland

    kuyaalland Full Member

    what do you recommend for 18490 size and sub ohming? ive been using the sony 30a batts but the mod that i want to pick up only comes 18350/490 tubes and i want to keep my subohm builds.

    so far ive seen only the AW 1100mah are like 16.5a or something.
     
  19. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Not many options in an 18490 size IMR. The only one I know of is the AW, which is an excellent battery.
     
  20. zacherychristopher

    zacherychristopher Moved On Verified Member

    I read the updated posts on Fast Tech but am curious if anyone has heard/seen any other news about battery shipments and how this is going to affect American suppliers when stocks run out?
     
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