EU Holland bans e-cigarettes

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Bill Godshall

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Ironically, Dutch Health Minister Edith Schippers just slashed funding for smoking cessation programs, and she has also refused to enforce the nation's smokefree workplace law.
The Associated Press: Dutch no-smoking drive takes a hit

Check out this letter in The Lancet submitted by many anti smoking activists
Can the Dutch Government really be abandoning smokers to their fate? : The Lancet

The Government of the Netherlands has announced that it is all but closing down its tobacco control operations. It has already weakened its existing smoke-free laws. It will reverse a previous decision to ensure that smokers who want to stop but cannot do so by themselves receive evidence-based treatment to help them.1 And it plans to close down the world-renowned national centre on tobacco control, STIVORO. This at a time when smoking prevalence in the Netherlands is relatively high among western countries at 27%,2 resulting in an estimated almost 20 000 premature deaths per year.3
 
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rolygate

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Rolygate, Vocalek; can we do something internationally as Emonty has suggested. Would it be possible to wake up one day next month & find the USA along with the rest of the Globe other than China has been Banned to some degree or another??

Bans occur when the pharmaceutical industry succeeds in exerting pressure on elements within government to restrict sales in order to protect their income. The first-line product to be affected by safer tobacco product sales is that of NRTs, quit-smoking drugs, because consumers buy the tobacco alternatives instead of the NRTs. The second-line products to be affected in the long term are medical drugs sold for the treatment of sick smokers, since if smokers don't get sick, the drugs are not needed. This product line is many times the size of the NRT market (which itself is a billion-dollar a year global product line) and must be protected. Pharma sales in Sweden are the worst in the world as far as per-capita sales of NRTs and chemotherapy drugs in a developed country is concerned, and the spread of 'Swedenism' is considered a nightmare situation by pharma. It will result in the loss of many billions in assorted drug sales.

In the advanced consumer societies of north America and northern Europe, tobacco industry opposition to e-cigarette sales has largely ceased because their future planning now includes e-cigs as an option. Sweden is considered a model for tobacco sales as an example of where the rest of Europe and North America may be in 30 years time, and in this scenario, there is less room for cigarette sales but much more space for alternative tobacco products. (In Sweden 20% of people use smokeless tobacco, only 12% smoke; and as a result their smoking-related death rate dropped by 40%). Big tobacco, above all else, is not stupid.

In developing countries, pharma has no dog in the fight because it has very low sales of NRTs and treatment drugs. Smoking is considered the norm, and there are few well-off enough to want to quit using pharma products - this would be a luxury few could afford. In addition, sick smokers are typically not treated to any great extent in these countries, they simply die. Therefore pharma's interests do not warrant the expenditure of extensive sums in prevention of e-cigarette sales. They can also see that the tobacco industry will do their work for them.

In contrast, the tobacco industry is usually strong in these countries. In fact, in totalitarian regimes, the government may be the tobacco industry (as in China, which is the largest tobacco company in the world). Here, tobacco will protect its investments and income by opposing e-cigarettes.

So now you see the reasons behind e-cigarette bans. Can this happen in the US? It already did, and was defeated. The US is in a unique situation because the e-cigarette industry, due to its size ($100m per year plus, in sales), can protect itself. This may also apply to the industry in the UK, although a lot smaller, because it is the best-organized in the world.

Other places are not so fortunate and will succumb to pharma-purchased pressure. The largest vulnerable area is the EU, which has clearly demonstrated an accord with pharma and willingness to ignore public health, with the ongoing Snus ban. Unfortunately for countries that are EU members, EU law overrules national law, and an EU ban on e-cigarettes will affect all member countries. This represents the ultimate bargain deal for pharma, since the application of a couple of million at the top in the EU will obviate the much higher expense of achieving the same objective in over twenty other countries.

The US is safe from a ban, as we have seen. However, pharma has such a vast amount of money available to apply to problems that the attacks will continue, since legislators are easily influenced when cash on that scale can be invoked. Expect all sorts of minor (and major) regulatory assaults, once the legislators have got all their ducks in a row.

Essentially, e-cigarettes are not under threat as they are now protected by law, but every single aspect of their sales will be, at some stage in the future, because this will cost pharma billions of dollars and there is no way they can let that sort of a loss slide.

On a personal level, you have no need to worry just now, because there will be plenty of warning of the next attack by the pharma industry's government agents. Americans are safe for now, but in most other countries they do not have the funds required to protect themselves.
 
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DC2

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Maybe this is the wrong topic, but is there someone judicial savvy that can help me interprete this ruling of the EU High Court:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62008J0027:EN:HTML
I'll give it a shot, and hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong...
It sounds like a ruling that the product in question is a medicinal product was overturned by a higher court.

Basically, the ruling says that while the product does not have medicinal properties at dosages recommended for use, it does have medicinal properties at the higher dosages. The fact that this did not make it a medicinal product did not seem to be in dispute. However, there was concern that the product used at the recommended dosages may have adverse effects on health, and it was initially decided that should therefore make it a medicinal product. The higher court ruled that whether or not it could have adverse effects on health at the recommended dosage has no bearing on whether or not it meets the current and existing definition of a medicinal product.
 

rolygate

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No problem VT. Many people don't understand the reasons for opposition to e-cigs, and think somehow that if they petition the FDA and others that it will have some effect. It has exactly the amount of effect you would expect when petitioning someone paid millions to tear up your petition and bin it.

Also, people worry about immediate threats to their ability to obtain supplies. There is no such threat (in the US) because you will know about it here first, and there will be a court battle, with plenty of time for you to make alternative arrangements should things go wrong. So relax :)

In other countries, things are desperate in some cases. They just don't have the funds or organization to protect themselves. Governments everywhere are bought very easily, you need extensive funding for legal defense or a massive media voice in order to fight back against the corruption.

I make no apology for defining government actions against e-cigarettes as corruption, because they have clearly been paid to act directly against the interests of public health, and this is a good definition of corruption. Anyone who wants to argue this needs to be able to explain why anyone would ban Snus when it is proven to reduce the smoking death rate by 40%, and a ban protects the income of the pharmaceutical industry as a result. There is no clearer example of government corruption in existence - it is the direct cause of the deaths of anything up to 260,000 people a year in Europe (40% of those who die from smoking there). Just a saving of 10% of the 650,000 smoking deaths in the EU per year would be 65,000, and that would certainly be achieved if Snus was not banned.
 

Vocalek

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Rolygate, i am rereading trying to understand, seems that China really is not home free, as they could be banned as well. The UK has YOU, so they have organized opposition towards any proposed bans. So seems that the EU desperatly needs some organized group with strong leadership.

I'll take a stab at that question. In China, all the tobacco companies are owned by the government. It is against the government's financial interests to have too many smokers quit. So there might be prohibitions on selling e-cigarettes to Chinese citizens. I would guess that there would be no prohibitions against exporting the products.

You are right. The EU does need an organized group to form. One potential ally would be Prof. Riccardo Polosa of Italy. I'm sure he could point out other European researchers who believe in the concept of harm reduction.

Understand that these folks could be advisers to such a group, but they could not and would not fight the battles. That's up to the consumers and the vendors.
 
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arbogast

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I've had a brief mail correspondance w of one researcher, at a goverment funded agency for drug research here in Norway, who does have a positive stance towards ecigs. I won't name him here without his consent, though.
Allys are relatively easy to come by, as opposed to finding people who has the time, drive, integrity, knowledge etc to form this hypothetical EU vapers group. There's the language barrier as well, of course.
 
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wfx

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In China, all the tobacco companies are owned by the government. It is against the government's financial interests to have too many smokers quit. So there might be prohibitions on selling e-cigarettes to Chinese citizens. I would guess that there would be no prohibitions against exporting the products.

i respectfully disagree. everything I read and see says Chinese anti-smoking rules are draconian, although completely ignored by the populace. i would expect the opposite of an e-cig ban. rather, a friendly push by your local party leader to quit smoking, take up e-smoking or pay hefty taxes. the idea being to raise revenue.

obviously not an expert in this area so I'd like to hear from some of the HK or Singapore folks (here on ecf i think). ABC (Australia) has also done some excellent stories on local China over the last few years, so that may be slanting my view.
 

Jorge22

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It would be interesting that vendors and customers together throughout Europe read this and took action before it's too late. Having said that, things change on a constant basis and they may well ban ecigs today and welcome them back tomorrow. I wonder what the Chinese are doing about it? And the Americans too, btw... is it possible that nothing is happening behind the curtains?
 

tommy2bad

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is it possible that nothing is happening behind the curtains?
In the EU certainly, they are up to their necks in more pressing financial matters.
This distraction may allow lots of little laws which cumulatively allows an outright ban at a later date.
In Ireland our recent budget didn't change anything in regards to e-cigs, their still taxed as medicinal products i.e. 0% vat and low excise duty. Next time 'tho it might be different.
 

kristin

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Holland vapers have the perfect argument to use against the government is their own words.

"Dutch health minister, Edith Schippers...has said that “the state is not a nanny” . Her policy is to take a “middle path”, discouraging smoking while allowing “adults to decide for themselves over lifestyle decisions.”

If she can say this about smoking, how can she deny it to e-cigarettes - which are by all accounts "better than smoking?"
 

rolygate

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The Dutch pharma corporates probably had a whisper in her ear. Greg C. gave me a link to the Netherland's response to the EU questionnaire on the new Tobacco Directive. At that time, their position was non-committal about Snus and e-cigs. It's probable that their corporates saw this and decided to exert a little pressure:

http://ec.europa.eu/health/tobacco/docs/contribution_netherlands_en.pdf

We are slowly building an EU consumer association but it depends on several countries getting their act together. Like most people they think everything will turn out for the best, if they just wait. In this particular case I'm afraid that isn't likely.
 

Sophora

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Well, what can I say, except direct your attention to the motto of the Ministery of Health, which can be found at their website:

Nederland gezond en wel.
Dat is het motto van het ministerie van Volksgezondheid, Welzijn en Sport (VWS).
Het is de ambitie van VWS om iedereen zo lang mogelijk gezond te houden en zieken zo snel mogelijk beter te maken.

Translates as:
The Netherlands sound and well.
That is the motto of the Ministery of WVS.
It is the ambition of WVS to keep everybody as healthy as possible for as long as possible and the ill cured as quickly as possible

On a side note, totally unrelated off course, there's an awful lot of commercials for Nicorette on TV, a nicotine inhaler brought to you by Johnson&Johnson.
 
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