House passes bill to require child-proof nicotine packaging

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curiousJan

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15x.18=2.7 50/2.7=18.519

Let me walk through mine here.

15ml bottle with 18 micro-grams of nicotine in it, so I put the micro-grams as .18 and multiplied by 15. This gives me 2.7 grams of nicotine per 15ml bottle.

The suggested toxic dose of nicotine is listed at 50 grams. I divided that by the 2.7 grams to get around 19 bottles.

Ah. I did not carry that out per pound. If I do, 475; 15ml bottles are needed to be toxic to a 25lbs child. 7,125 ml would be needed, or roughly 30; 8 oz (240ml) bottles.

I pay around $40 USD for a 240ml bottle of juice. To stand aside and watch a child of 25lbs kick back and chug away $40 of juice to me would seem rather terrible. A full 30 bottles like that would run $1,200 USD. Sorry, I know there are likely parents of human children who are stupid enough to let that happen. I just find it incredulous.

Again, if I'm off on my maths I'm sorry. I only took the government required general public education up to high school. No one ever really pushed STEM on me as it seemed clear I was just another bit of military fodder.

Now, I play catch up.

Your math is off:

A 15ml of 18mg contains 18mg nic per ml liquid. Therefore there's 270mg of nic in that single bottle.

mg == milligram not microgram
 

zoiDman

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I have some bottles that I cant get the frickin lids off!

There is a Joke among people who deal in Child Resistant Packaging (CRP).

"The Only way to make Child Proof Packaging is you have to make it Adult Proof."

LOL
 

zoiDman

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...

The suggested toxic dose of nicotine is listed at 50 grams. I divided that by the 2.7 grams to get around 19 bottles.

...

As Jan mentioned, we reference the Amount of Nicotine in our e-Liquids/Nicotine Base in mg which are Milligrams. Not in Micrograms.

So a 15ml Bottle that contains 18mg/ml e-Liquid has 270 Milligrams of Total Nicotine in it.

But here is the Big Question I have. Where did you get that the Toxic Dose of Nicotine is 50 grams? And what is the 50 grams of Nicotine relative to?

50 Grams per Lbs or kg of Body Weight?
50 Grams for and Average Adult in one Dose?
50 Grams per some amount of Time?
 

Steamix

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TheotherSteveS

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As Jan mentioned, we reference the Amount of Nicotine in our e-Liquids/Nicotine Base in mg which are Milligrams. Not in Micrograms.

So a 15ml Bottle that contains 18mg/ml e-Liquid has 270 Milligrams of Total Nicotine in it.

But here is the Big Question I have. Where did you get that the Toxic Dose of Nicotine is 50 grams? And what is the 50 grams of Nicotine relative to?

50 Grams per Lbs or kg of Body Weight?
50 Grams for and Average Adult in one Dose?
50 Grams per some amount of Time?
this is not right. Not even close
Nicotine High-Toxicity Myth Destroyed

For children it appeasr that 6mg/kg body weight is potentially fatal! Rats can tolerate 50mg/kg but mice much less. 50g is enough to kill a small village! A 15ml bottle of 18mg juice is enough to kill an infant if you beleive the quoted numbers!

Just think about how you might feel if you vaped a bottle of 18mg in 10 minutes (if it were possible) and that is no comparison in terms of uptake to drinking it. We need to be sensible here!!!
 

curiousJan

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"Based on 20 % oral bioavailability of nicotine (Hukkanen et al. 2005) and assuming linear kinetics, an oral dose of 60 mg would give rise to a plasma concentration of about 0.18 mg/L. The literature reports on fatal nicotine intoxications suggest that the lower limit of lethal nicotine blood concentrations is about 2 mg/L, corresponding to 4 mg/L plasma, a concentration that is around 20-fold higher than that caused by intake of 60 mg nicotine. Thus, a careful estimate suggests that the lower limit causing fatal outcomes is 0.5–1 g of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral LD50of 6.5–13 mg/kg. This dose agrees well with nicotine toxicity in dogs, which exhibit responses to nicotine similar to humans (Matsushima et al. 1995)."

How much nicotine kills a human? Tracing back the generally accepted lethal dose to dubious self-experiments in the nineteenth century
 

Rossum

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I have some bottles that I cant get the frickin lids off!
c0b8e860-acb1-4ccf-9fe3-b4e694a45f4c_400.jpg
 

zoiDman

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The pretty blue handles are there to attract children. Keep them locked up and out of their reach.

Too Late.

Here is a photo from a CDC Report showing Children opening a CRP container of e-Liquids...

R9698-drillin-action-tool-set-d-1.jpg


... thanks to Fisher Price.
 

DC2

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MyMagicMist

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As Jan mentioned, we reference the Amount of Nicotine in our e-Liquids/Nicotine Base in mg which are Milligrams. Not in Micrograms.

So a 15ml Bottle that contains 18mg/ml e-Liquid has 270 Milligrams of Total Nicotine in it.

But here is the Big Question I have. Where did you get that the Toxic Dose of Nicotine is 50 grams?

What I read somewhere herein within a thread. Although in hindsight I may have not read correctly, or whatever it was, was in error. Thanks for correcting my misreading of mg as micrograms. Was not quite sure how that read but had seen it listed as micro before somewhere. Now, I know better.
 

MyMagicMist

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Lethal dose will fluctuate depending on weight/size. most resent data shows it will take about 6.5mg per kilogram to kill someone, so for myself about 660mg but if you look at a child that weighs about 45lbs it will only take 130mg, or a infant weighing in at 20lbs its 58mg.

Although that is all based on the low end it's 6.5 to 13 mg/kg

24mg (Per Milliliter) x 15ml =360mg
18mg (Per Milliliter) x 15ml = 270mg
12mg (Per Milliliter) x 15ml = 180mg
6mg (Per Milliliter) x15ml = 90mg
3mg (Per Milliliter) x 15ml = 45mg

Luckily though nicotine poisoning will induce vomiting in most cases so even if you do ingest a larger amount you will mostly likely puke it up before you come close to *dying..

Alright. So, to see if I'm following correctly here.

I weigh around 113kg multiply that by 6.5mg and come up with around 735mg needed as a lethal dosage?

Extrapolating that to 15ml bottles at 18mg, I would need to ingest about 2 and one third bottles, or a 30ml and a 7ml bottle at one time to be given a lethal dose?
 
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zoiDman

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What I read somewhere herein within a thread. Although in hindsight I may have not read correctly, or whatever it was, was in error. Thanks for correcting my misreading of mg as micrograms. Was not quite sure how that read but had seen it listed as micro before somewhere. Now, I know better.

Hey no problem.

These units that are used or reported in Articles can sometimes be very foreign to what are seen in Everyday Life. And are Easily Mixed up.
 

zoiDman

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What I read somewhere herein within a thread. Although in hindsight I may have not read correctly, or whatever it was, was in error. Thanks for correcting my misreading of mg as micrograms. Was not quite sure how that read but had seen it listed as micro before somewhere. Now, I know better.

One other thing I was going to Point Out but forgot.

When you see the term LD50 when dealing with some Chemical, what it stand for is...

"median lethal dose (LD50) the quantity of an agent that will kill 50 per cent of the test subjects."

The LD50 doesn't mean that everyone is going to Die that ingests this amount. It say that 50% of the people should Die.

It also doesn't say that a Person isn't going to have other Health Problems from Ingesting the LD50 amount. And it could well be that a Person does Serious Damage to Organs in their Body by ingesting the LD50 amount, but Doesn't Die.
 

MyMagicMist

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One other thing I was going to Point Out but forgot.

When you see the term LD50 when dealing with some Chemical, what it stand for is...

"median lethal dose (LD50) the quantity of an agent that will kill 50 per cent of the test subjects."

The LD50 doesn't mean that everyone is going to Die that ingests this amount. It say that 50% of the people should Die.

It also doesn't say that a Person isn't going to have other Health Problems from Ingesting the LD50 amount. And it could well be that a Person does Serious Damage to Organs in their Body by ingesting the LD50 amount, but Doesn't Die.

Ahhhh ... Good to be aware of this kind of information. To me it translates to something akin to an expression a family friend we dub Uncle Gene has regarding raining. "Always a 50/50 chance, it will or won't."

I understand what you're conveying though. I tend to connect different dots to keep things sorted in the filing cabinet in my skull. Now, excuse me while I forget this whole thread. *chuckles* Thank you Mr. Holmes. :)
 

Canadian_Vaper

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Extrapolating that to 15ml bottles at 18mg, I would need to ingest about 2 and one third bottles, or a 30ml and a 7ml bottle at one time to be given a lethal dose?
Yeah, well technically between 735mg to 1470mg depending on the mass of your body im guessing (fat vs muscle etc)? not sure how they determined the 6.5 to 13 but you get the idea now ^__^
 
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