How do i D.I.Y without using water.

[evan le'garde]

So, i've been using 72mg aqueous VG i bought from Cloud Vapours. It already has 10% water in it. I cut it with Gycerin, which i dilute myself with 10% water before i start mixing. So i'll make some e liquid by using 50% aqueous VG then add 35% of my diluted VG and finally add the flavouring of 15%. Ending up with 36mg e liquid.

That's what i've been doing !.

Recently i've been thinking about cutting out the water completely. If i buy some Nicotine VG, without water, and get some Nicotine PG, i could use the PG to dilute the VG by 10% while still maintaining the original 72mg nicotine. So once that's done i could do the same with the no nicotine glycerin, meaning i'll add 10% PG to it. Obviously when all that's done i'll mix it as i did before.

My question is "would i need to use the same amount of PG, instead of water, to dilute the VG if i want the end result to be the same vicosity as the liquid i have been making ? (this is about the cutting liquid and not the nicotine liquid). Seeing as the aqueous vg only had 10% water added then is it right to use the same amount, 10%, of PG take make it the same ?. Is PG as thin as water or will i have to add more PG ?.

Also "could i use flavouring to dilute the undiluted VG ? (cutting liquid). Would it work as a thinner ?.

Eg : (9 mil 72mg nicotine VG) + (1ml 72mg nicotine PG) + ( 6.3ml pure VG with 0.7ml pg flavouring)+ 3ml pg flavouring) = 20ml of 36mg e liquid, 75%VG / 25% PG (ballpark ratio).

 

[fxRich]

I don't use water at all. The flavors are pg based, and if I need it thinner I add more pg. Even coming straight from the freezer pg is about like water. It don't freeze until it hits about -60F.

 

[evan le'garde]

Right so PG is about the same viscosity as water. I imagine using PG instead of water would mean the completed e liquid would produce more vapour than e liquid with' water which is why i want to give it a try.

 

[Hoosier]

Right so PG is about the same viscosity as water...

Water must be much thicker in Everywhere than it is in Indiana.

It doesn't take much time nor much $ to try a 5-10ml bottle of what you intend. The only way to know if it will work for you is to do it.

I know your intended mix would work for some of my hardware, but not all.

 

[evan le'garde]

I know what you mean Hoosier. I realise that PG is thicker than water. Really though i was thinking that i might need more PG than the 10% water it would replace. And yes the only real way is to try it. As it is i'm running out of the aqueous nicotine VG that i have. So my next order will be 250ml 100% VG 72mg and 100ml 100% PG 72mg.

My guess would be i'd probably end up needing to use maybe as much as 15% PG in place of water as a dilutant.

So 10% really isn't enough is it !, and it probably won't flow properly.

Thank you for your input, i appreciate it very much.

( what the hell is wrong with me, i knew pg is thicker than water) derrr.....

Really the question is exactly how much pg is required ?....... 15% ?.

 

[Hoosier]

Don't know. I have one atty that I use 15% PG and 5% PGA to get the wicking right. I'd have to go to close to 75/25 PG/VG without the PGA. I have atty's that take 95% VG without an issue. So, try the first thought and it that doesn't work, try another thought. You know what you want....i haven't got a clue.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I am mixing 30PG/70VG and use no additional water.

 

[evan le'garde]

How much pg would i have to put in pure vg to make it the same viscosity as the 10% aqueous vg ?.

This isn't about what i want i just want to know the % of pg needed to create a cutting liquid that would have the same thickness as the 10% aqueous vg. I'm sure someone here must know exactly how much thicker pg is than water, surely !.

 

[BicStic]

In Germany I saw some "Power Smoke" base that supposedly has better vapor than a straight PG/VG mix. It was 10% water added to a variety of PG/VG ratios.

 

[Hoosier]

Not really. I've seen a number of different viscosity's of anhydrous VG. PG is pretty much PG, but VG seems to be all over the map.

Most anyone can see what I mean. Take an equal amount of Humco USP VG and an equal amount of ED's USP VG on a cookie sheet and tip it. They will not run at the same rate. If someone is lucky enough to score some P&G USP VG, it will out-run both of them. All of them are anhydrous. (Without water, for those that don't know what anhydrous means or think it's something scary.)

You learn some weird stuff DIY'ing for over 5 years and trying different stuff. You learn absolutes like X=2Y are lies. Someone is free to tell you different, I'm still sticking with, try it and see what works for you and your stuff. Got pretty much the same opinion on flavorings too. (Using a flavoring at only a single % is just a way of missing other stuff it can do and could cause someone to miss some interesting things about mixing.)

 

[evan le'garde]

The VG i am referring to is pure 100% glycerol, branded "Glycerin BP"(british pharma). Nothing added, nothing taken away. It's not from an e liquid vendor it's from the chemist. Ingredients = 100% Glycerol.

 

[evan le'garde]

This stuff.

 

[Hoosier]

The 3 VG's I mentioned were pure glycerin too. 3 different viscosity's.

None say 100% pure because that's impossible. Even when shopping for reagent standards, none are 100% pure. I'm usually one to avoid products if their labels state an impossibility, so even if that was available here, I'd have no experience with it.

There might be an outside chance that someone has done the experimentation and collected data to formulize a water to PG conversion for your specific VG...so we wait?

 

[evan le'garde]

It's a pharmaceutical product. And very unlikely to have false information on the label.

 

[Alien Traveler]

View attachment 426894

It's a pharmaceutical product. And very unlikely to have false information on the label.

But of course it is not a false information. And of course it is not 100% VG. Your picture shows not "ingredients", but "active ingredient". There should be some British standard about labeling active ingredients, which does not require to show (always present) impurities in active ingredient.

 

[Hoosier]

So are the 3 I mentioned.

 

[evan le'garde]

Ok, ok , Fair enough !.

The viscosity of the various liquids that you've mentioned and the one i've shown can't be much different can they ?. I mean if they are basically just VG then the difference in viscosity should be negligible shouldn't it ?. Any other ingredients would be minimal surely, and wouldn't really effect the thickness by much at all, no ?.

Lets just assume that all these were the same, even though they are not. Then taking that into account, does anyone confused know how much PG i'd need to add to VG to replicate "VG with 10% water in it". Just a basic percentage would do.

I am beginning to think that if i want to find this out then asking people isn't going to work. .

 

[Alien Traveler]

I have no idea. I am rather lazy, I do not like to make small batches for testing (50 ml works better for me), so no studies from my side. I have tried only 12% and 15% of water, and did not see any difference from 30% PG. But again, I did not try other concentrations. And, of course, my perception of juices is not only subjective, it is not stable at all. It depends on time of the day, on day of the week, whether I drunk coffee or whisky and, of course, humidity.

 

[Hoosier]

I agree, asking people just isn't going to work.

Unless the point of the question is to drive the questioner loopy, then that we can handle.

 

[evan le'garde]

You mean the point of the answerer really don't you. .