How the media totally exaggerated study on risk of ‘Popcorn Lung’ from e-cigarettes

[Bill Godshall]

Guy Bentley: How the media totally exaggerated study on risk of ‘Popcorn Lung’ from e-cigarettes
How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes

Harvard press release and DHHS funded activists grossly misrepresent findings of vapor study to confuse, scare and lobby for FDA deeming ban
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-12-chemicals-e-cigarette-flavors-linked-respiratory.html

Obama DHHS financed vapor study finds trace level constituents in vapor flavorings, zero evidence of Popcorn Lung; but author's falsely insinuate vaping causes Popcorn Lung by putting the fear mongering
term in study title and abstract to deceive, scare and lobby for FDA’s deeming ban. http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/advpub/2015/12/ehp.1510185.acco.pdf

 

[DrMA]

Unfortunately the damage from this atrocity is extensive. I've gotten worried messages from (non-vaping) friends & acquaintances after seeing the story on the news.

 

[ckquatt]

Yep. Just look at all the new threads being made here.

Like this one:
E-cigarettes contain dangerous 'popcorn lung' chemicals

The damage is done...

 

[Steelgirl]

I listen to a morning radio show (Alternative rock) that does a "What's Trending" section. And unfortunately, this was trending. I was soooooo ...... ! They don't know what they are talking about, yet they are spreading the semi-lie ! The main DJ even went so far to say "yeah, those vape peeps thought e-cigs were so safe, now we all know they are not" !! Or something like that. I yelled into the radio "you fool !!!" I'm surprised my co-worker didn't bring it up. We both watch the same news. He's a stinky ... smoker !! I do lunch with another stinky ... smoker, I'm surprised she didn't bring it up either. I guess they know I will defend the vape ! I diy and I use very small amounts of flavoring. Most flavoring sellers do report if the flavor contains diac... . The bad thing is, it's really not even news !!!

 

[Lessifer]

So maybe it wasn't such a good idea to treat the so far minuscule risk of diketones as Satan incarnate? I mean, there are probably hundreds of threads on this forum discussing the dangers of diketones, supporting vendors being sued, but when someone who isn't us does it, it's suddenly wrong?

 

[Mazinny]

So maybe it wasn't such a good idea to treat the so far minuscule risk of diketones as Satan incarnate? I mean, there are probably hundreds of threads on this forum discussing the dangers of diketones, supporting vendors being sued, but when someone who isn't us does it, it's suddenly wrong?

Can you name me one vendor that has been sued because they had diketones in their juice ( hundreds if not thousands of vendors probably have them, and dozens are a known as a fact per test results published ), or any members here who have supported such an action ?

 

[ckquatt]

Can you name me one vendor that has been sued because they had diketones in their juice ( hundreds if not thousands of vendors probably have them, and dozens are a known as a fact per test results published ), or any members here who have supported such an action ?

It's coming. I read a post on another thread about someone with lung issues wanting to sue the eliquid makers...


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[sofarsogood]

This stuff blows over because nobody is getting sick.

 

[Lessifer]

Can you name me one vendor that has been sued because they had diketones in their juice ( hundreds if not thousands of vendors probably have them, and dozens are a known as a fact per test results published ), or any members here who have supported such an action ?

Five Pawns Class Action Lawsuit

 

[Lessifer]

And before it starts, let me say this. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to ask if it is present, or that if you wish to vape juices that are D/AP free you shouldn't be able to find them easily. However, I have seen many impassioned posts about the evils of diketones and how vendors are putting this "poison" in our juices, etc. Not everyone who wants to be D/AP free acts this way, but many do.

 

[Mazinny]

Five Pawns Class Action Lawsuit

Five pawns was sued for fraudulent misrepresentation. Not negligent or innocent misrepresentation, but Fraudulent. There are dozens of vendors known to have diketones in their liquids ( check Vaporshark site ) at far higher levels than the liquids tested in this study, and some of them have claimed they did not, relying on the word of their flavor suppliers. None have been sued.

 

[Mazinny]

And before it starts, let me say this. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to ask if it is present, or that if you wish to vape juices that are D/AP free you shouldn't be able to find them easily. However, I have seen many impassioned posts about the evils of diketones and how vendors are putting this "poison" in our juices, etc. Not everyone who wants to be D/AP free acts this way, but many do.

There are extreme positions on any side of an issue. Could you honestly tell me that there aren't some on the " other" side of this issue who don't act in a defensive and contentious manner, and despite not having any scientific background, question any study that doesn't agree with their position, and cherry pick studies, and deliberately misquote scientists and studies, etc ...

 

[Mazinny]

It's coming. I read a post on another thread about someone with lung issues wanting to sue the eliquid makers...


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Perhaps my statement was hyperbolic. There may be one member here who wants to sue. But i haven't seen an avalanche of posts encouraging vendors being sued. The two vendors getting a lot of backlash ( Suicide Bunny and Five Pawns ) are the two that allegedly lied about the presence of these molecules. Dozens of others are known to have these molecules, and like i said, at least in the sections of this forum that i participate, i haven't seen an outcry against them.

 

[YoursTruli]

So maybe it wasn't such a good idea to treat the so far minuscule risk of diketones as Satan incarnate? I mean, there are probably hundreds of threads on this forum discussing the dangers of diketones, supporting vendors being sued, but when someone who isn't us does it, it's suddenly wrong?

If you look at the multitude of references in that study you will notice a lot of previous studies including Dr. Farsalinos noted, no mention of ECF though. Just as this is not new news to us it's isn't new news to the scientific community at large either. I do not think they are wrong but rather, redundant, stomping over covered ground, but that is nothing new for the scientific community.

It was and is an issue that needs to be out in the open, discussed and studied... and seriously a lot more vapers need to be made aware of it to make informed decisions on what they want to or do not want in their eliquid.

 

[Lessifer]

There are extreme positions on any side of an issue. Could you honestly tell me that there aren't some on the " other" side of this issue who don't act in a defensive and contentious manner, and despite not having any scientific background, question any study that doesn't agree with their position, and cherry pick studies, and deliberately misquote scientists and studies, etc ...

No, there are definitely extremes to both sides, it just so happens that the extreme of this side pretty much coincides with the Harvard press release.

From the suit

NATURE OF THE ACTION
8.

Defendant is a manufacturer of e-liquids, which are used in electronic cigarettes. Defendant’s e-liquids contain hazardous substances known as diacetyl (“DA”) and acetyl propionyl (“AP”) (also known as 2,3-pentanedione), in addition to propylene glycol, glycerin, nicotine, and flavorings. As detailed herein, the DA and AP levels detected for certain particular flavors of Defendant’s e-liquids represent the highest concentration that has ever been seen in any e-liquid. Some e-liquids manufactured by other companies are sold
without
DA and AP, propylene glycol, nicotine, or flavors, as it is possible to source ingredients that do not contain these toxic ingredients.
2
9.

DA and AP are compounds of diketone and are responsible for the buttery and creamy taste of many foods and beverages, most famously, popcorn. While DA and AP are safe to eat or drink, inhalation is known to cause certain lung conditions, including Bronchiolitis Obliterans, a condition in which irreversible scarring to the lungs is produced, in serious cases requiring lung-transplants. A number of cases of Bronchiolitis Obliterans in popcorn factory workers exposed to DA and/or AP led authorities to create very strict limits on the amount of these chemicals that workers may be exposed to. Similar cases of Bronchiolitis Obliterans have since been discovered in workers in other types of manufacturing plants. 10.

It is also known that DA and/or AP are contributing factors to both chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (“COPD”) and emphysema.
3

The claim of harm is because the liquids contain diketones, and diketones cause harm, even though there is no evidence of harm from the actual liquids in question. It may not be all of the suit, but it is at least part. Do you think the suit would exist if there weren't an, as of yet, exaggerated fear of diketones in e-liquid?

 

[Mazinny]

If you look at the multitude of references in that study you will notice a lot of previous studies including Dr. Farsalinos noted, no mention of ECF though. Just as this is not new news to us it's isn't new news the the scientific community at large either.
It was and is an issue that needs to be out in the open, discussed and studied... and seriously a lot more vapers need to be made aware of it to make informed decisions on what they want to or do not want in their eliquid. I do not think they are wrong but rather, redundant, stomping over covered ground, but that is nothing new for the scientific community.

There was a poll by Marquette University about the issue in which 91 % of vapers had not even heard of 'diacetyl'. Some might think this issue is blown out of proportion on this forum, but the vast majority of vapers don't even know of the issue.

 

[Lessifer]

If you look at the multitude of references in that study you will notice a lot of previous studies including Dr. Farsalinos noted, no mention of ECF though. Just as this is not new news to us it's isn't new news to the scientific community at large either. I do not think they are wrong but rather, redundant, stomping over covered ground, but that is nothing new for the scientific community.

It was and is an issue that needs to be out in the open, discussed and studied... and seriously a lot more vapers need to be made aware of it to make informed decisions on what they want to or do not want in their eliquid.

Right, so why is this newsworthy to us? Why do we need a response? People need to be made aware of the deadly toxins that the tobacco industry is hiding in so-called safe vapor products. Thank you Harvard for helping to spread the word.

[/SARCASM]

 

[Mazinny]

No, there are definitely extremes to both sides, it just so happens that the extreme of this side pretty much coincides with the Harvard press release.

From the suit


The claim of harm is because the liquids contain diketones, and diketones cause harm, even though there is no evidence of harm from the actual liquids in question. It may not be all of the suit, but it is at least part. Do you think the suit would exist if there weren't an, as of yet, exaggerated fear of diketones in e-liquid?

Probably not, but i also know that none of the other vendors have been sued. What sets 5P apart is that as far as i know, they are the onle vendor that told their customers their liquids don't contain DA/AP, while they had their own internal tests proving that the statement was a lie.

Let me ask you the question a different way, do you think there would have been a lawsuit if plaintiffs did not have emails from 5P claiming no DA/AP and b@m vendors claiming they were told no DA/AP , at a date subsequent to when 5P had their own test results ?

 

[YoursTruli]

There was a poll by Marquette University about the issue in which 91 % of vapers had not even heard of 'diacetyl'. Some might think this issue is blown out of proportion on this forum, but the vast majority of vapers don't even know of the issue.

I think people often forget ECF is a small bubble in the vaping world at large and while it may have a large membership there is definitely a much smaller core group of members that ever enter into or discuss issues like this. I do not personally know one other person who vapes that has any idea of FDA deeming let alone what diketones are because they are not involved in any online communities.

 

[YoursTruli]

Right, so why is this newsworthy to us? Why do we need a response? People need to be made aware of the deadly toxins that the tobacco industry is hiding in so-called safe vapor products. Thank you Harvard for helping to spread the word.

[/SARCASM]

because this study was funded by the National Institutes of Health (This research was supported by NIH/NIEHS Center Grant P30ES000002) who is in partnership with the FDA (so really funded by the FDA) and this Advanced Publication was published by Environmental Health Perspectives (a peer-reviewed journal of research and news published with support from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, National Institutes of Health). The timing could not be better if they planned it...