Huge news from the UK: E-cigarettes more effective than NRT for smoking cessation

Discussion in 'FDA Regulations' started by SmokeyJoe, May 20, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. SmokeyJoe

    SmokeyJoe ECF Founder Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I will be blogging in detail on this later, but for now - the headline and some links to news reports.

    Make no mistake. This is enormous news - E-cigarettes have been shown by the UK's most expert team in smoking cessation to be at least 60% better than over-the-counter NRT at helping smokers quit. Note - the authors have not yet examined (or at least published) on the type of e-cigarettes used. This is the population as a whole and, similarly to the US, cigalikes still dominate front-line distribution - it is tempting to conclude that segmenting by product type would reveal even more dramatic data.

    Also, this quote is quite remarkable (from the Guardian article): "He [Professor Robert West] admitted, however, that it was a controversial area. He also acknowledged opponents' fears and suspicions about the commercial involvement of scientists. "I don't and will not take any money from any e-cigarette manufacturer," he said. His department does take money from pharmaceutical companies that make smoking cessation drugs, but they are rethinking that. "I need to be able to talk about e-cigarettes without even the conception of conflict of interest," he said.


    E-cigarettes more effective than patches to help quit smoking, says study | Society | theguardian.com
    E-cigarettes boost quitting success among smokers, study finds | Reuters
    BBC News - E-cigarettes 'help smokers to quit'
    Quitting Smoking Is More Likely With E-Cigarettes, UK Study Says - Businessweek

    I have written elsewhere about the extreme importance of West's study (the smoking toolkit) being carried out in the United States. I think this underscores the necessity.
     
  2. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    Brown Edge, England
    Very helpful indeed. It is to be hoped that any future regulation is "light touch" and does not interfere with either the availability or efficacy of our devices.
     
  3. SmokeyJoe

    SmokeyJoe ECF Founder Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The UK's may be - the US's not so much. This data must be submitted to the FDA.

    By the way - Hello mate! Hope you're well...
     
  4. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    Brown Edge, England
    Hello SJ - I'm just fine, and hope that the same goes for you, too. :)
     
  5. Roger_Lafayette

    Roger_Lafayette Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    Moved On
    I couldn't agree with this more. If we can get everyone together - from ECF denizens to the opinion leaders on the web like VP live, Youtube etc., the local vape shops, the state and local vapers' orgs and so forth - to try to crowd fund a study like this to the tune of (?) $500K-$1M, that could make a real difference.

    The results would send a huge message to the media and to congress about the value of vaping-as-cessation, and let the average apathetic American know that vaping can help to reduce their own health insurance premiums. Other than scaring apathetic nonsmoker/nonvapers, the most effective approach to getting them to pay attention, is to wave the almighty dollar in front of their noses, methinks ;)

    About the toolkit E-Cigarette Summit - Prof. Robert West - ECF InfoZone

    SJ, I think you siad the UK survey was done by YouGov which I believe is the UK equivalent of Gallup, Harris, Pew, etc. - all rolled into one: List of polling organizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You've also said that you don't think US gov't orgs like the CDC can be trusted to accumulate this data. I coudn't agree more with this, too. We need some respected organization in the US to do this, some body that's neutral, with a well-established track record in such things. Of course the US media would do their best to ignore it. But then perhaps we have to start taking out advertisements in our media, staging protests in Washington DC, and the whole nine yards. (Or maybe something else. I'm just pointing out that there are ways to force the public and the regulators and the politicians to pay attention to the truth. It costs money, it takes organization and requires boots on the ground. But we have and/or can get all of these things.)

    This could help to bring us together, to give us a cause and a specific national US vapers' goal - beyond the rather amorphous objective of fighting the FDA's potential actions (which I am also very much in favor of doing, don't get me wrong).

    It would be something to rally around that most if not all of us can agree on: proving to an American audience that vaping really does work as cessation - with evidence gathered from the US.

    P.S.: Before someone quibbles with the health care cost argument I made above, by pointing out that having smokers quit will actually be a net drain on the US's finances, let me point out that I agree with that ;-) But that's not what the ANTZ have sold to the average person. The same might go for the actual level of carnage due to combustible tobacco product use. Perhaps it is hugely exaggerated.
     
  6. SmokeyJoe

    SmokeyJoe ECF Founder Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Roger,

    I'm so glad you agree. What we need is for Robert West to do the data analysis. He's been running the Toolkit for 6 years and there's no one better placed to do it in the world. He would do it in a flash, if it were funded.

    He's also a totally, utterly non-agenda driven man (save for the scientific agenda), and accordingly would not take funding on this from anyone with a commercial interest in the results: no ecigs companies, no pharmaceutical companies and (obviously) no tobacco.

    Would he take money from the community? I'll ask him....
     
  7. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Location:
    GA by way of WV
    And ask him how much.
     
  8. SmokeyJoe

    SmokeyJoe ECF Founder Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Already done!

    A bit more than the US, but only because of costs - no need for a larger sample. So, call it $200k/year (at a complete guess).

     
  9. Roger_Lafayette

    Roger_Lafayette Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    Moved On
    This is definitely in line which what's plausible, I think. I don't khow what was raised for Burstyn (Drexel) or the latest Dr. F. e-liquid study ($20-30K?). That took maybe six months (?). Less, maybe.

    I had multiplied your original est. by 2-5 to scale it for the US, given that UK pop = 60M, vs. US = 300M. But that was the clearly the wrong approach.

    What's needed to get the ball rolling? Maybe start talking to some critical opinion leaders for starters? Just thinking out loud.

    If we could get this done by the time FDA comes out w/ their final proposed rule and presents it to OMB and then to Congress, this could be some pretty helpful evidence for exerting pressure on the administration and congress.
     
  10. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Location:
    GA by way of WV
    If all 20,000 active ECF members donated $10 each, that would cover it. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen.
     
  11. EddardinWinter

    EddardinWinter Pride Male Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    Then some of us will need to dig a bit deeper then. Or find other ways. This is important enough to get creative.

    I have no problem going to local shops and shaking them down for 500 to support this cause. We have dozens of them in Richmond.
     
  12. Anjaffm

    Anjaffm Dragon Lady ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Location:
    Germany
    That study is wonderful news!!!! :thumbs:
    Even been published in Germany's BILD Zeitung (something like the UK Daily Mail) which used to be as completely anti-vaping as the Daily Mail used to be. We here in Germany are also flabbergasted. Good news on vaping? IN THE MEDIA???? Wow! Just wow!!! :banana:

    Heck, the study (press release) is in Reuters.
    Big huge change from the usual FUD horse manure coming from those press release circulations.

    - Hey if you go crowd-funding for the US study, then let me know how. I'll donate something and pass it on to my fellow vapers in the German forum / FB groups. Did for the Dr. Farsalino study, then why not for you guys and gals in the States? After all, it will benefit us too.
     
  13. Roger_Lafayette

    Roger_Lafayette Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    Moved On
    ECF has a broader community out there - look at the opinion leaders like Kev & Dimitris of VP Live, Phil Busardo, Grimm Green, Rip Tripper - these people have large audiences on the web.

    Think of the huge vape meets that have happened all over the place. And then there are the big on-line vendors, and the vaping B&Ms (including a number of what are effectively chains). Not to mention the state and local vape clubs and associations.

    Virtually all of the salient people who are organizers of these events, officers or other opinion leaders in these organizations, and other folks with big internet megaphones are connected with ECF in one way or another. (That's how I found out about ECF ... I kept hearing it mentioned on Youtube.)

    Even as we speak, the CDC is working on their study of 20,000 kids, and the state of California is funding their study of 400,000 school children ( **********. nytimes.com/2014/03/05/business/e-cigarettes-under-aliases-elude-the-authorities.html ).

    You can bet they're going to have terrifying numbers to report to the American public, probably in the first "back-to-school" week after Labor Day.

    Can you see the headlines? "CDC Doctors: e-cigs make kids smoke the real ones"

    Or how about: "Health Dr.: 'skyrocketing' teen e-cig nicotine addiction"

    So it might not be a bad idea for us to get moving in this effort to organize the broader vaping community, by using ECF's "ex-pats."
     
  14. Anjaffm

    Anjaffm Dragon Lady ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Location:
    Germany
    bumpity-bump :) Now this is some good news that every vaper should see - and pass on :)
     
  15. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Location:
    GA by way of WV
  16. Anjaffm

    Anjaffm Dragon Lady ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Location:
    Germany
    Very nice indeed!

    A sensible person! :thumbs:
     
  17. Roger_Lafayette

    Roger_Lafayette Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    Moved On
  18. FireDragon1138

    FireDragon1138 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    It's positive news but it's only "60 percent better" than NRT. The NRT is 10-15 percent effective, meaning e-cigs are still relatively ineffective for many people. I would be more impressed if e-cigs were double that of NRT.

    In my experience, it still requires a lot of motivation to quit smoking using e-cigs.
     
  19. tombaker

    tombaker Moved On

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    As a followup to the other thread, which I can not find right now. All these studies can be used by the American FDA without change, and without needing to do them again. The exact language from the FDA follows:

    B. Studies Conducted Outside of the United States
    You may submit studies of new tobacco products conducted outside the United States as part of your PMTA. All studies conducted outside the U.S. should be conducted to ensure that the rights, safety, and welfare of human subjects have been protected in accordance with ethical principles acceptable to the world community and that the data are scientifically valid and applicable to the U.S. population. The investigator should conduct these studies in conformance with international standards for good clinical practices or obey the laws and regulations
    of the country in which the research is conducted, whichever affords the greater protection of human subjects. These patient protection and data integrity measures help ensure that data from studies conducted outside the United States constitute “well-controlled investigations” (see section 910(c)(5)(A) of the FD&C Act) that provide reliable data to FDA.
     
  20. Kryyptyk

    Kryyptyk Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    The effectiveness of an NRT isn't static, it changes dramatically during the period of use. Somewhere around 2-4 weeks the raw chances of quitting is around 53%, whereas the chances after using the product for a year drops to the widely quoted 15%.

    These numbers would put the raw statistical chances of quitting via vaping at somewhere between 75%-113%, with the chances declining as time passes.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page