I messed up and need some help (fell off the bandwagon).

[ddirtyvapes]

Sorry, pretty long post. TLDR at bottom.

I know this forum pretty well and know that the vast majority of people here wouldn't say "oh gross you went back to smoking after HOW LONG?!" buuuuttttt if you feel the urge, I'm politely requesting you refrain because I feel like poo about it. I've already been on my own month-long guilt trip.

Yeah, I started smoking again about a month ago. Not a lot, but it's more than zero, which had been my number for a long while. I'm trying hard to get back to things. I'm not having a lot of luck. There was a reason I had that first cigarette about a month ago after so long without, but to be frank it doesn't matter what it was.

This happened when I was making a conscious effort to reduce the nicotine SEVERELY. I went from 18mg to.... 1mg in a few weeks, partially because I made a switch to mostly subohming. The timing is a little off; I switched to sub-ohming back in March or so and I didn't have much of a problem for a couple of months, even when the nic level got really low. I guess I don't totally know what the trigger was a month ago beyond actually having that first one. For a while I was just vaping enough that the extra low nic wasn't really a problem. Then suddenly it was.

The obvious answer here is that I went down too far on the nicotine, but here's the rub: I CANNOT find the sweet spot between what isn't enough and what is way too much. At this point, even with the smoking, 6mg is far too much in my Subtanks. It nearly chokes me. 3mg is not enough to satisfy unless I'm using it a fairly large amount, and even then the line between satisfying and headache seems so slim. I DIY, so I can and do and have tried to find some amount in the middle that might work for now, but it's not working. I've literally basically tried every mg amount in between 3-6mg in .2 increments and nothing feels comfortable. Closer to 3mg I have the same problem, that I use too much and eventually feel unwell. Closer to 6 and it's hard to use it at all.

There are other problems: I just got back into DIYing after a long break and I lost my recipe book, so I've had to start from scratch. I know, I should have digitized but it was a couple of years ago and I just didn't. I don't have a lot of recipes I like yet and it's feeling more and more like pulling teeth, except I really can't afford to buy pre-mixed at the amount I'm vaping and with my current unknown-correct-nic-amount. That said, if anyone knows a good cheap juice place, I'm all ears. I can always get 0mg and add my own while I'm figuring out WTH to do with my DIY.

When I originally quit smoking, the biggest help was simply not having cigarettes on me. If I didn't go buy cigarettes, I didn't smoke cigarettes, and I didn't crave them much either. Out of sight, out of mind. For some reason now I can't stop myself from getting them when the previous pack runs out. I go to the store and on the way I say "no, this is stupid, stop!" and turn around. Then I start craving again and my resolve cracks in two. I can't over-stress how terrible I'm feeling about all of it and I don't understand how I can't turn those horrible feelings into motivation to just NOT GO TO THE STORE. Well, of course I can understand. It's an addiction. Doesn't make me feel any better, especially when I have the object of said addiction sitting on my shelf.

Anyway, I'm just trying to get some advice and figure out some creative solutions. Like many vapers (especially us hobbyists), I have a bunch of devices and a bunch of ways to consume juice. Maybe I can't be subohming nonstop right now. Maybe I should use 4.5-5mg of juice in the Subtanks to curb cravings, and go back to a very low nic in a lower-output device in between until I get a craving again. I'm not sure, but that's the kind of thing I'm asking about. Maybe it's something else, I have no idea. It's just that at this point, it doesn't seem like there's a simple nicotine amount solution for me, at least with regards to subohming. By that I mean that I don't think the answer is as simple as just using more nicotine. I think I need to think harder, and try harder.

Crud. Thanks for reading, if you did.

TLDR: Started smoking a bit after years not. It's only a couple a day, but I hate it. I went down far on nicotine recently and now I'm having trouble going back up without becoming uncomfortable, even in very small increments. I desperately want to stop smoking again but am having trouble figuring out the best way to stay satisfied without getting myself nic sick. I'm trying to figure out a solution beyond simply having more nicotine that may help me pull myself back together.

 

[Pamawoman]

this is why I am petrified to get off the 18 which I just this week lowered from WTA 24. Anyway keep trying and maybe some WTA juice would help you over the hump. i know it did it for me and now I am off the WTA and vaping along nicely. LOL

 

[juggler86]

Why would you go fron 18mg to 1mg thats just asking for problems. Why does the nicotine matter to you, in general its pretty harmless.

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Why would you go fron 18mg to 1mg thats just asking for problems. Why does the nicotine matter to you, in general its pretty harmless.

I believe I was pretty clear why I went down that low. I started subohming, and as I found myself incapable of putting down the device long enough to keep myself from getting sick, the obvious solution was to reduce the nicotine. As I also already stated, this was not an issue for a solid two months. While you are free to have no problem consuming copious amounts of nicotine, it's important to me to use as little as I possibly can. I call a spade a spade and I don't care to put more drugs in my body than is absolutely necessary, just as I choose not to have much caffeine. Obviously I don't want to smoke either, but much more than 10mg/mL is just more than I want to use. It's fine if you have no suggestions, but that's really the long and short of it here. If I need to use more for the short term, it's worth it not to smoke, but my goal will continue to be an immediate reduction as soon as is humanly possible.

In addition, I am a very long-time vaper, probably longer than a good number of people here despite it taking a few years to finally stop smoking entirely. After multiple years without analogues, this was my attempt to stop with the nicotine altogether. Clearly I was not successful.

Panawoman, WTA isn't a bad idea. I'm not a big tobacco vape person but maybe that's not the worst solution for the time being.

 

[coolerat]

I've never smoked since I quit using vaping but have several times without. Once I quit for over 2 years!!!! So the nic was a non-factor.

I like my nic. Low nic only but still plenty of it. I use zero nic when I'm over doing it but always have some nic close by.

This time I have no plans to go nic free.

 

[PaulBHC]

Next time you go to buy a pack, buy one of those cig a likes instead. Might be enough to keep you from smoking.

I left my vape stuff at home one day and took a year old open pack of smoke for emergency. Ended up smoking two. Didn't want any more after that though.

 

[Big Me]

Is it possible for you to mix two strengths and have them in separate tanks? Use 3mg or lower to satisfy the hand to mouth craving and use 6mg when you get the urge to smoke.

You'd only need a few hits at the higher strength liquid but it might help.

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Thanks guys.

I like my nic. Low nic only but still plenty of it. I use zero nic when I'm over doing it but always have some nic close by.

Yeah, that's one of the ideas I had. Keep some zero nic around if I start feeling iffy so I can keep vaping but otherwise bump it up some.

Next time you go to buy a pack, buy one of those cig a likes instead. Might be enough to keep you from smoking.

I left my vape stuff at home one day and took a year old open pack of smoke for emergency. Ended up smoking two. Didn't want any more after that though.

This is another good idea. I think I'll try that. I probably don't need to even mention that as a general rule I'm so far past the cig-a-likes-- most of us are-- but I honestly didn't even consider that at this point since on their own, they're so not satisfying. Still, I think there's a real chance it could help now that my hands have gotten a little used to the cancer sticks again.

That's the worst part about this whole thing: I don't want any more either. They taste terrible and it's not enjoyable. Vaping continues to be incredibly enjoyable. It's still not stopping me. But, maybe having a cigalike to pick up when I'm dying for a cigarette and not just nicotine will be a boon. I appreciate it.

Is it possible for you to mix two strengths and have them in separate tanks? Use 3mg or lower to satisfy the hand to mouth craving and use 6mg when you get the urge to smoke.

You'd only need a few hits at the higher strength liquid but it might help.

I don't really need to mix the two strengths since I can just whip up a batch of whatever amount but otherwise yes, that is totally possible and not a bad idea. I already sort of do that but the difference probably needs to be more extreme, i.e. enough nic in one tank to help with cravings in a few puffs and very little nicotine in the other so I can switch without overdoing it.


For what it's worth (and now I'm not speaking to anyone in particular), I don't have a problem if I need to continue using some amount of nicotine for a while if that's what it takes not to smoke. However, while I'd rather not get into the nitty-gritty details, I have a number of personal incentives to keep it low. Still, a little more nicotine isn't going to kill me, but I just want to put it out there for posterity that I have some health problems that make me want to do what I can to restrict my intake. I have no philosophical problem with continuing to use nicotine, and certainly I have absolutely no opinion on what others want to put in their body unless I'm asked for it. I hope it goes without saying that I would rather use a huge amount of nicotine in e-liquid than continue smoking. Not that I need a "huge" amount (subjective), I'm just saying that I'm not at all opposed to increasing instead of smoking so I hope it's not coming off like that. I'm totally open to any and all suggestions. I'm just of two minds here, and I don't want to increase even a tenth of a mg more than it takes to keep off the analogs.

There are already a lot of good suggestions that I feel like a fool for not considering. These are exactly the kind of thing I was asking for. Thank you, truly.

 

[DingerCPA]

Hey ddirty..... None of us is perfect. Just remember all the ones you DIDN'T smoke, right?

+1 on the WTA suggestion. You don't mention what flavors you are vaping - perhaps change up the flavors a bit? You also don't mention if you have other tanks beside the Subtanks. Maybe a non-subohm tanks loaded with higher-nic juice for the cravings, and then subtanks for your normal vaping?

Hang in there.... The one thing that finally got me off cigarettes was that I am too cheap to spend money on both vape gear AND cigs. I just stopped buying them, realizing that I'm freeing up that money for other things (like more gear )

 

[YoursTruli]

Maybe it would help to stop the sub-ohming thing and get back to the vaping basics that worked so well for you before the switch. It has been my experience that no matter how long someone has been cig free the cravings to smoke never totally go away and will pop up unexpectedly, maybe changing the way you vaped triggered it for you.

 

[Pamawoman]

I believe I was pretty clear why I went down that low. I started subohming, and as I found myself incapable of putting down the device long enough to keep myself from getting sick, the obvious solution was to reduce the nicotine. As I also already stated, this was not an issue for a solid two months. While you are free to have no problem consuming copious amounts of nicotine, it's important to me to use as little as I possibly can. I call a spade a spade and I don't care to put more drugs in my body than is absolutely necessary, just as I choose not to have much caffeine. Obviously I don't want to smoke either, but much more than 10mg/mL is just more than I want to use. It's fine if you have no suggestions, but that's really the long and short of it here. If I need to use more for the short term, it's worth it not to smoke, but my goal will continue to be an immediate reduction as soon as is humanly possible.

In addition, I am a very long-time vaper, probably longer than a good number of people here despite it taking a few years to finally stop smoking entirely. After multiple years without analogues, this was my attempt to stop with the nicotine altogether. Clearly I was not successful.

Panawoman, WTA isn't a bad idea. I'm not a big tobacco vape person but maybe that's not the worst solution for the time being.

Aromas juice has some really tasty WTA. There RY4 and cranberry kiss are particularly good and they sell unflavored WTA, but it is 24.

 

[edyle]

Keep a special tank with some high strength eliquid in it for when you get cravings.

My guess is your frustration comes from vaping a wide variety of watts with the same nicotine strength.
as a rule of thumb you can try aiming for
watts x nicotine strength = 100

5 watts 20 mg
10 watts 10 mg
20 watts 5 mg.

and if you get an rda, you can always add a few drops of one thing or the other to increase or decrease the strength on the fly.

 

[SleeZy]

I had a slight relapse due irl issues, and the second time coming back was way harder than the first time. (Where i quit the very same day.)
My saviour was to start using NET's at the beginning. (Not WTAs, although this might help you even more, but imo try NETs first.)
And raise your nicotine up to atleast 12mg, even if you're subohming.

These days i'm still on 12mg in RTAs and 6mg in RDAs (From 24mg in clearos back in the days). And while i could possibly go lower, i don't realy want to, atleast not yet. And if the subohm is to harsh, try build around 1-1.3 ohms (If you're rebuilding that is) Which is a sweet spot atleast for me with 12mg. Which carries me through the day.

Main thing is, is not to rush it. That will only end up with a failure. I went from 24 - 18 - 12 - 6 in incriments (Sorry not sure how to spell that right.)
Rather vape higher/more until you feel comfortable to lower it, slowly. Don't rush it.
Even if you want to reduce your nic intake to 0. Just take it slow/er.

But all in all, i'd recommend you to try out some NETs which atleast was my way back to vaping once again. Or in "worst case" try to use some WTAs.

As far as cheap premixed juices you can't realy go wrong with Yaeliq and/or Strix elixirs, used to be cheaper but they've risen their prices abit so i'm not sure how cost effective they're anymore. They do make great juices though. Also MBV makes cheap juices but i personally don't like them all that much.

Don't beat yourself up to much though, even if you were to smoke 3-4 times a day. Think of all the smokes you've not smoked. You'll eventually come back on the vape-train again, i'm pretty sure of that.
If i could, so can you.

Best wishes!

 

[Nickstive]

I think the major thing is to not beat yourself up so much about it. We're all human here, after all. Addiction isn't an easy thing to stop-everyone relapses at one point in some form or another. I know it took me five or six solid attempts to finally give them up, and every day I have to remind myself that I made an active choice not to smoke another cigarette. I know it sounds corny, but you have to believe that you are above the addiction and not give into the negative, self-fulfilling prophecy that you cannot quit. One of the biggest things for me, with both my smoking and PTSD, was figuring out what my triggers were and doing my best to avoid them.

I know you said you've been vaping for years now; have you considered using an RDA? It may help reduce your nicotine cravings without having to use high mg juice. as they tend to produce more vapor than most tanks.

Hopefully I've helped a bit. Stay positive and don't give up the fight.

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Hey ddirty..... None of us is perfect. Just remember all the ones you DIDN'T smoke, right?

+1 on the WTA suggestion. You don't mention what flavors you are vaping - perhaps change up the flavors a bit? You also don't mention if you have other tanks beside the Subtanks. Maybe a non-subohm tanks loaded with higher-nic juice for the cravings, and then subtanks for your normal vaping?

I really appreciate the encouragement. Thank you. Also, pertinent questions, sorry. I kinda word-vomited that post. Answers:

I'm mostly a fruit vape person, and always have been. Pretty much any fruit I find tasty, which is obviously super subjective, but yeah. I'll do straight fruits and fruit and cream, sometimes a little bit of bakery thrown in. I do try to switch up the flavors as much as I possibly can but over the years I've just found that the non-fruity juices I enjoy are pretty few and far between. This is especially true with DIY; I'm simply much better at fruit mixing than anything else. In the past I found tobacco juices unpalatable but it was so long ago I don't know that this is still true. I also avoid a number of juices and flavors from fear of diketones... fruit is usually one of the safest categories in that regard, of course. (I know, AP in a lot of "ripe" fruits etc. but I just stay as educated as I can on what is in everything.)

I do still have some gear besides the subtanks, but not a lot. I'm really super broke right now, which makes the smoking even worse but it's a nominal cost because it's RYO and I'm not smoking much. In a way I wish it were costing more so that were more an incentive. Anywhoo... my point was that most of my money spent on vaping right now is on OCC heads and flavorings and base and nic; I still have older tanks but it's hard to keep replacing parts for all of them, you know? That said, as I know I keep saying, I'm not at all opposed to getting what I need to get (including some cartos or tank coils for higher nic juice) if that seems to make the most sense.

Maybe it would help to stop the sub-ohming thing and get back to the vaping basics that worked so well for you before the switch. It has been my experience that no matter how long someone has been cig free the cravings to smoke never totally go away and will pop up unexpectedly, maybe changing the way you vaped triggered it for you.

I should correct myself here, anyway. I do subohm quite a bit, but not exclusively. I still use the 1.2ohm subtank heads a lot and intend to pick up some of the 1.5ohms next time I order. These are quite close in feel to some of the stuff I was using that worked well in the past, if anything they just work much better. I fell out of the hobby side of things for a long while once I had a set-up I enjoyed, but over time it became less and less satisfying, even before I educated myself on what else new was out there.

Still, I do see your point and it's something to consider, even just foregoing the .5 ohm heads for the time being as the others are close to what I used in the past that was helpful. I'm just thinking out loud; what you say makes sense on the surface, certainly to some degree at least. Now that I've been using my newer stuff for a while though, I just don't know how satisfying my old set-up will be compared to the Subtanks, especially given that my satisfaction was dropping steeply by the end of that era even before I made a serious nicotine reduction. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..." I just felt like it was starting to break at the end. However, I don't disagree that it may be wise to return to an older set-up at least as a supplement to my current one. I'd prefer to figure out a way to keep the Subtanks as my primary method if I can, but absolutely the top priority is not smoking, however I have to make that happen.

I need to have dinner but I do see there have been more replies since these. I will get back to them as soon as I can. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read, ponder, and make suggestions more than I can really say.

ETA: As for figuring out how to have some juice on hand while I'm working out recipes without paying much, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mt Baker sells a lot of flavorings that are basically the concentrated flavors of their pre-mixed juices? As in, I might be able to use some of that to make a single flavoring juice (or with some EM or whatever, if necessary) that could be good enough for the time being if I like the flavor?

 

[PaulBHC]

2010 I gave up vaping and went back to smoking then cold turkey for 6 months. Found out my workplace was closing and the stress got me right back to 2PAD until 2013 when the wife had problems and we both quit cigs with vaping. Still a struggle sometimes.

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

I use both 3-6mg and 12mg, otherwise I'd be sucking down way too much juice per day
For every 3 or 4 hits of my subΩ tank I take 10 from the other one

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Keep a special tank with some high strength eliquid in it for when you get cravings.

and if you get an rda, you can always add a few drops of one thing or the other to increase or decrease the strength on the fly.

Actually, your wattage suggestions are VERY close to what I've already been doing. I don't vary the wattage much as I know what I like and what's comfortable. I dunno if I could call it a sweet spot as clearly it sort of fell apart a bit recently, but I haven't fiddled too much since the first week or two after switching from VV to VW. At the moment I've been using the same DIY juice 90% of the time and I vape it at pretty much the same wattage every time, with slight adjustments for the .5s vs 1.2 heads. But I will definitely keep the watts x nic strength formula in mind, thank you.

Yes, I'm thinking of getting an rda to have on hand. I need to do some more research and budget checking.

Best wishes!

I'm just quoting this so you'll get the alert, thank you for the thorough post. Very helpful. The NET is a good idea and definitely something I'll look into. I honestly think 12mg might kill me right now considering how awful 6mg feels even at lower wattages. But regardless of the actual number, I'll definitely take into consideration a steep increase and I will think about bumping up to 10-12mg if and when I get an RDA that gives me more control over the resistance. I rewick my OCC heads but it's not worth the agitation of rebuiling in those for me. I want to get the V2 Kanger RTA deck but until I have it, I don't really use the current RTA that came with it as I don't find it to work very well.

I think one of the things that really caught me off guard here was that even though I fully understand that dropping from 18mg to 1mg is a HUGE decrease in just a month or so, even if I am using a lot of juice (and I am), it really and truly didn't feel fast. It felt like the most natural reduction in the world, and I honestly thought I had reached equilibrium for a while. Like I said in the first post, the timing was kind of weird because I had been vaping that 1mg juice (with occasional jumps to 2-3 for cravings) for about 6 weeks before it fell apart. I would understand a little more easily if it had happened right in the middle of the decrease, but it didn't. In the grand scheme of things, six weeks isn't too long though. I know that, and I know now that I went too fast. It's just amazing how fine it felt at the time.

I don't know Yaeliq or Strix but I will check them out, thank you, and thanks for the kind words. I know I'll get back to it eventually. I want to be back to it now.

How's your search for a danish juice going, btw?

I think the major thing is to not beat yourself up so much about it. We're all human here, after all.
[snip]

I know you said you've been vaping for years now; have you considered using an RDA? It may help reduce your nicotine cravings without having to use high mg juice. as they tend to produce more vapor than most tanks.

Yes, you've absolutely helped, thank you.

I'm terrible at forgiving myself. It's a long-standing problem. I mean, I totally understand I'm not alone in that but I am the king of beating myself up despite knowing logically that it is unhealthy and unproductive. If I may be frank, it's not my first time at the rodeo with regards to substance dependency so I do know and try to remember the tools I've used in the past. It is ALWAYS helpful to get a reminder, though. It doesn't sound corny. Nicotine/cigarettes are such a bear and all the worse that it's so easy to get a pack. I feel like I'd be a little better off if I had a B&M nearby so if I had the craving to run out and get a pack I could go there instead and spend the money on... whatever... but I don't, not close enough.

I've been thinking about getting an RDA for a while now. The biggest hurdle is the cost of some of them. Do you happen to have any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive RDA knowing that I've never had one of my own (I've used friends' though) and may ultimately decide it's not for me? If I love it I would gladly get a pricier one, but for a starter I would hate to pay any more than necessary. I mean, I've thoroughly enjoyed trying out a couple of my friends' so I think I'll like it, but it's hard to compare without knowing exactly where my own sweet spot would be, especially as I try to return to full-time vaping. I have pretty high faith in my ability to build at least. I've always been good with that kind of stuff and I know there's plenty of information available online to get me started, though I have to admit I've had some trouble finding a solid recommendation on a less expensive RDA.

2010 I gave up vaping and went back to smoking then cold turkey for 6 months. Found out my workplace was closing and the stress got me right back to 2PAD until 2013 when the wife had problems and we both quit cigs with vaping. Still a struggle sometimes.

It's always nice to know you're not alone. It's always a struggle, believe me I know. Part of the reason for my relapse was stress for me, too, though there was more to it than that.

I use both 3-6mg and 12mg, otherwise I'd be sucking down way too much juice per day
For every 3 or 4 hits of my subΩ tank I take 10 from the other one

Thank you for the suggestion. The trick for me now would be to figure out what would be an OK and satisfying enough set-up compared to the subtank... but if you've read the rest of this post, maybe that's where a non-sub-ohm RDA build comes in.

Once again, a big general "thank you" to everyone who has replied so far.

 

[SleeZy]

I won't quote your entire answer, so ill just type it here.
For cheap / beginners RDAs i recommend ordering from fasttech, most of them are clones but they're just fine especially when learning.
For flavor Magma is a killer, for cloudchasing... i can't give a good advice on that due i'm not a cloud chaser.

But for ease of use, i like my Gaia, altho it has abit small post holes. So i would recommend say, any of the IGO models would suit you. Igo-L is a realy simple RDA to build.

To me though, the best 1-1.3 ohm tanks out there is still my beloved kayfun v2. Which you could buy a clone of, at fasttech.
Altho if you're having issues with kanger V1 deck you'll prolly face the same issues with a kayfun. (Depending on what the issues was.)
The v2 deck is better than the v1 though. It depends on what ohms you're trying to build realy. And what %vg/pg juice you're using.

I would say either way, keep juices in both strengths 12mg and 6mg, maybe even a 3mg aswell.
Since you're using premade coils, use kangers 1.2ohms for your higher juices and the lesser ohms (0.5?) with the lower nic juices you're using.

But it also depends on what wattage you're using. And the device ofcourse.

Edit: getting tired so missed this part.
No luck yet with my "danish" :/

 

[Nickstive]

Tobeco makes a clone of the Dark Horse that's around 15 bucks. It's one of my favorites for the clouds. The Mutation X V4 is a pretty awesome RDA and it's only around 20 bucks. Some of them can be pretty pricey, but some are also pretty cheap. As terrible as it sounds, eBay usually has some awesome prices on RDAs and lots of sellers ship from the US.