FDA "I think they're crazy..."

[Fitzie]

Do they not have internet access in DC?

Depends what level of federal official you're talking about and it's not just a question of internet access.

I'm sure members of Congress can probably look at anything they'd like on the web. Most likely, high level federal officials also have unrestricted access to the web.

For most federal employees, a site like ECF would almost certainly be blocked. The government can block it's employees from viewing whatever sites it deems inappropriate. It's their computer and the reason it's provided is to do work. Basically, there are two reasons the government blocks access to the entire web: keep viruses, etc out of the network and keep federal employees from wasting time surfing the web when they should be working.

 

[Kent C]

Absolutely. It is a respectable study, well thought out and conducted. It also mirrors the French study, the New Zealand study, and Dr. Farsalinos's study of 1900 vapers. Each subsequent study adds credibility to previous studies. The more the better. It won't be easy to dismiss them all.

19,000

 

[Kent C]

I've been thinking about number 2. On one hand there are a lot of vapers who say they will never go back to smoking. I wonder how true that is if their choices were limited? The result of the Proposed Rules could be a spike in smoking and cigarette sales. Currently, the HHS Economic Anyalsis predicts no loss in sales. I would probably go back to smoking (once my reserves ran out).

Actually, that could be a good argument against their dual use scenario. They are more likely to bring it about, than to prevent it

 

[Katya]

19,000

Edited. Picky, picky...

And now we have an Italian study.

E-cigarettes may help people quit smoking regular cigarettes: study - NY Daily News

Wait, this is old... Sorry. But still...

 

[AndriaD]

Well then maybe vaping should be fast tracked as a NRT and become politically correct.
Our best defense is to jam up the wheels and prevent them from turning.

My current fantasy is to win the lottery so I can fill enough greyhound buses with grayhaired vapers chanting WE LIKE FLAVORS to bring washington DC to a complete standstill. A bus at every intersection, right in the middle of it!



Andria

 

[AndriaD]

The good news is that we, the vaping consumers, aren't alone in this..


There are lots of other people & entities fighting this fight alongside us, like vape companies, trade associations, advocate groups, lawyers, lobbyists, etc.. And who knows who else might end up jumping in*.. Obviously our support/assistance & what we do, as consumers, is important, too.. But there is lots of other stuff going on at different levels & coming from different angles, things that many of us might not even be aware of...

Heck, one could argue that at least in some sense, the BT cigalike-makers are our semi-ally in this, at least at times & in some areas, and are fighting on a different front (and with their own agenda, of course).. BP could be considered one of their enemies in this -- and isn't the enemy of our enemy, our friend? (Yes, I winced when I wrote that .. But that doesn't make it any less true)...


Bottom line is, I don't think we need to feel like it's only a handful of consumers fighting this war.. We are simply soldiers taking part in a much larger & diverse (and certainly capable) military, so to speak...



*I wish the medical community would step up their public game a little more.. Seems like many doctors (including my own), for example, are fairly happy that some of their smoker patients have switched to vaping.. Perhaps some would like to see us eventually give that up, too, but it's a step in the right direction, at least in their eyes... Maybe we could help push them a little to join in our fight & to publicly speak up in our defense...

What would REALLY be great would be the AMA coming out in favor of e-cigs. But they're probably joined at the hip with the FDA and big nasty pharma. *sigh*

Seriously, the FDA/Big nasty pharma need to be brought up on racketeering charges. It's the most unconscionable racket since the gangsters of prohibition.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I gotta stop reading this stuff. It's making me so stressed out I'm sitting here eating chocolate. Well I sure as hell ain't gonna SMOKE.


Andria

 

[aikanae1]

I gotta stop reading this stuff. It's making me so stressed out I'm sitting here eating chocolate. Well I sure as hell ain't gonna SMOKE.


Andria

Yea, there's something just wrong about reading ECF and smoking ...
The AMA has been largely abandoned. There's a couple of other associations, American Family Phycisions? That are bigger; One of them did come out early on in support of vaping. Medscape wrote their own review on vaping and came out in favor. The biggest issue with many of them is their unyeilding faith in the FDA. In some ways I can understand since the bulk of their information has the FDA seal of approval. They have to see it to believe it (view results). They are there and I'm sure the ranks are growing. Addiction coundelors are another profession that should be in support and there has been in some areas locally.

I really liked CASAA second CTA. I thought it could be very effective.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I've been thinking about number 2. On one hand there are a lot of vapers who say they will never go back to smoking. I wonder how true that is if their choices were limited? The result of the Proposed Rules could be a spike in smoking and cigarette sales. Currently, the HHS Economic Anyalsis predicts no loss in sales. I would probably go back to smoking (once my reserves ran out).

From what I've read, sounds like a number of current vapers are planning to stock up on nic base prior to any hardcore regs, then once it hits just DIY & gradually taper their nic levels so their supply lasts that much longer..

Others are hedging their bets by taking the next few years to cut down their nic levels..


Obviously preparing for worst-case scenarios, in those instances..

But neither option sounds feasible to you, & you would rather go back to smoking?


Although I miss higher nic levels every now & then (or at least I think I do -- actually vaping it might prove otherwise), I've cut mine by over 90% in the last handful of months in a gradual step-down process by mixing different nic levels of pre-made juice..

Honestly, save for a few moments, it hasn't been all that difficult..

I don't think nicotine (in non-WTA e-liquid) is as addictive as some people claim or believe it is.. There's even a lab-rat study floating around here that says the same...

 

[catilley1092]

This lady is one well informed consumer & I agree with one of the posters stating that she should be a poster child for the vaping community.

We need more like her.

Cat

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

I've been thinking about number 2. On one hand there are a lot of vapers who say they will never go back to smoking. I wonder how true that is if their choices were limited? The result of the Proposed Rules could be a spike in smoking and cigarette sales. Currently, the HHS Economic Anyalsis predicts no loss in sales. I would probably go back to smoking (once my reserves ran out).

No Hon, you will not. I promise to personally drive out to AZ in order to prevent such a thing from occuring.

We must all stand together. Quitting rocks. Nu-uh, no more stinkies.

Never mind, you're just funnin us

 

[aikanae1]

Just had some time to write a few letters today and makin' my case (as scary as I can make it).

 

[AndriaD]

Yea, there's something just wrong about reading ECF and smoking ...
The AMA has been largely abandoned. There's a couple of other associations, American Family Phycisions? That are bigger; One of them did come out early on in support of vaping. Medscape wrote their own review on vaping and came out in favor. The biggest issue with many of them is their unyeilding faith in the FDA. In some ways I can understand since the bulk of their information has the FDA seal of approval. They have to see it to believe it (view results). They are there and I'm sure the ranks are growing. Addiction coundelors are another profession that should be in support and there has been in some areas locally.

I really liked CASAA second CTA. I thought it could be very effective.

Same here. And that last paragraph was so short and so vague, it left a lot of room. Here's what I wrote:

12 weeks ago, on February 27, 2014, I was able to quit smoking, because of the wide variety of e-cigarette products available (after 39 years as a smoker and giving up completely on the idea of quitting because the pharmaceutical cessation products simply do not work). If I had been limited to just a few products, I would never have been able to quit, or if I did, I would have soon returned to smoking. Human beings are each unique, and so are tastes and preferences; "one size fits all" is a myth, whether you're talking about pantyhose or e-cigarettes.

If the FDA really wants people to be able to quit smoking and save their own lives, they should leave e-cigarettes COMPLETELY ALONE - they're fine just the way they are, without government interference and kowtowing to the big-money interests of Big Tobacco and Big Pharma!

Whatever happened to THE FREE MARKET, where we vote with our dollars and patronage?!?

Dunno if anyone will actually read it, but I sure felt better after writing it.

Andria

 

[Katya]

Happy Birthday, Andria!

 

[Stosh]

Happy Birthday, Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Happy Birthday, Andria

Thanks! It was a pretty cool birthday; I gave myself the gift of TWELVE WEEKS SMOKE-FREE!



And we watched one of my all-time favorite movies tonight... The Jerk. When Steve was still young and pretty, and so was Bernadette.

Andria

 

[choochoogranny]

Please, correct me if I wrong. I normally just watch the cable channels, and seldom watch anything on the "regular" T.V. stations. However, lately while e-cigs and vaping is being demonized, I'm seeing more advertizements for NRT's, Chantix, patches, etc. whenever I turn on the "boob tube."

Could it be that those smokers who are looking to quit and being uneducated about vaping or hearing the misinformation thrown out there will then turn to FDA approved NRT's which they may also get paid for by their insurance THEREBY for the next 2 years or so the pharma companies will show an uptick in sales which they then can use in their arguments to present to the FDA, Feds, etc. that this is a better more effective way to go?

Or, they do see the "writing on the wall" and are trying to make their money while they can before the inevitable happens and vaping wins in the courts a few years down the line?

How 'bout the tobacco companies seeing the inevitable too, jumping on the band wagon to get ahead of the game and try to corner what market they can? Isn't an Ego type ecig now being sold at places like Walmart?

I haven't the education or acuity to puzzle these pieces together, but you guys do! Am all ears.

Edit: Happy birthday, AndriaD! Love reading your contribution here.

 

[sonicdsl]

They do, but I'm not sure if our leaders know how to use it. Sen. Harkin doesn't seem to be familiar with modern (21 century) technology.

Please, correct me if I wrong. I normally just watch the cable channels, and seldom watch anything on the "regular" T.V. stations. However, lately while e-cigs and vaping is being demonized, I'm seeing more advertizements for NRT's, Chantix, patches, etc. whenever I turn on the "boob tube."

Could it be that those smokers who are looking to quit and being uneducated about vaping or hearing the misinformation thrown out there will then turn to FDA approved NRT's which they may also get paid for by their insurance THEREBY for the next 2 years or so the pharma companies will show an uptick in sales which they then can use in their arguments to present to the FDA, Feds, etc. that this is a better more effective way to go?

Or, they do see the "writing on the wall" and are trying to make their money while they can before the inevitable happens and vaping wins in the courts a few years down the line?

How 'bout the tobacco companies seeing the inevitable too, jumping on the band wagon to get ahead of the game and try to corner what market they can? Isn't an Ego type ecig now being sold at places like Walmart?

I haven't the education or acuity to puzzle these pieces together, but you guys do! Am all ears.

Edit: Happy birthday, AndriaD! Love reading your contribution here.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit granny if BP is trying to up their presence in light of 1) ecig's rising popularity and 2) growing acceptance by insurance to cover under certain enefits.

As for BT/BV getting more into the picture on advanced units, I've seen where Mistic has eGo/CE4 combos out at WalMart now, and Njoy is releasing one as well.

 

[AndriaD]

Please, correct me if I wrong. I normally just watch the cable channels, and seldom watch anything on the "regular" T.V. stations. However, lately while e-cigs and vaping is being demonized, I'm seeing more advertizements for NRT's, Chantix, patches, etc. whenever I turn on the "boob tube."

Could it be that those smokers who are looking to quit and being uneducated about vaping or hearing the misinformation thrown out there will then turn to FDA approved NRT's which they may also get paid for by their insurance THEREBY for the next 2 years or so the pharma companies will show an uptick in sales which they then can use in their arguments to present to the FDA, Feds, etc. that this is a better more effective way to go?

Or, they do see the "writing on the wall" and are trying to make their money while they can before the inevitable happens and vaping wins in the courts a few years down the line?

How 'bout the tobacco companies seeing the inevitable too, jumping on the band wagon to get ahead of the game and try to corner what market they can? Isn't an Ego type ecig now being sold at places like Walmart?

I haven't the education or acuity to puzzle these pieces together, but you guys do! Am all ears.

Edit: Happy birthday, AndriaD! Love reading your contribution here.

Thanks! It was great, I gave myself the gift of 12 wks smoke-free, so I may end up having a lot more birthdays than I had thought.

I've seen a lot more of the BP crap on TV too; I just hold up my sigelei+kayfun and holler "THIS is how you quit smoking!" Of course that does no good, but it sure makes ME feel better, and seems to wildly amuse the spouse. He sure never saw this coming! If anyone is more amazed than me that I was able to quit, it's got to be him. He accepted me as I was, cigarettes and all, even though he's a non-smoker, but he sure seems to like kissing and hugging more than he used to.

Andria

 

[Stosh]

Please, correct me if I wrong. I normally just watch the cable channels, and seldom watch anything on the "regular" T.V. stations. However, lately while e-cigs and vaping is being demonized, I'm seeing more advertizements for NRT's, Chantix, patches, etc. whenever I turn on the "boob tube."

Could it be that those smokers who are looking to quit and being uneducated about vaping or hearing the misinformation thrown out there will then turn to FDA approved NRT's which they may also get paid for by their insurance THEREBY for the next 2 years or so the pharma companies will show an uptick in sales which they then can use in their arguments to present to the FDA, Feds, etc. that this is a better more effective way to go?

Or, they do see the "writing on the wall" and are trying to make their money while they can before the inevitable happens and vaping wins in the courts a few years down the line?

How 'bout the tobacco companies seeing the inevitable too, jumping on the band wagon to get ahead of the game and try to corner what market they can? Isn't an Ego type ecig now being sold at places like Walmart?

I haven't the education or acuity to puzzle these pieces together, but you guys do! Am all ears.

Edit: Happy birthday, AndriaD! Love reading your contribution here.

I'll throw my in here, but by no means have the answers to the puzzles.

Pharma is advertising more because fewer smokers are turning to their NRT or drugs to try to quit. Their income from such is falling, they are counting on the ads to boost their sales.

That said, they are missing an opportunity, the basic design on a viable e-cig is known, no heavy lifting there. If a pharm company was to do the clinical studies to get FDA approval of an eGo and topper with PRESCRIPTION liquid refills, they could about corner the market. The results would be covered by health insurance....woo hoo, e-juice paid by insurance. The clinical studies for an already mostly developed product would be chump change compared to what they spend on other drug studies.

The tobacco companies are starting to catch up, offering eGo type devices, BUT they are losing money at it, (check the 1st quarter financial report for Lolliard).

This is in a market where some vapers are paying $200-$300 for a battery mod, and $100-$200 for a topper. They also have an army of flavor experts that ensure each and every Marlboro or Camel taste exactly the same, given differences in tobacco (it's is grown after all), and could develop "smoker" acceptable flavors with FDA approved flavorings fairly easily. They simply buy an e-cig company and don't even show the brand on their website, I'm looking at you Lolliard. They have an established market chain to stores and gas stations big enough to rival anyone, and are just beginning to see any potential in e-cigs.

My take is that BT and BP can't buy a clue, and are as large of bureaucracies as say the FDA....

Not saying either path would be good for the vaping community, just pointing to the absurdity of the current situation.