ICR vs IMR Batteries

Discussion in 'VAMO' started by 4matic, Jan 14, 2013.

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  1. 4matic

    4matic Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I am currently using the Samsung icr18650 2600mah battery that the evic uses. The problem I'm having is that 1. it comes off the charger only at 4.1 volts. and 2. I've noticed a significant decrease in power and vapor production once the battery life hits around 3.7-3.8 volts.

    My question is would using an IMR battery like the aw imr instead of an icr make a difference here?
     
  2. tc1

    tc1 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    You'll almost certainly get a bit more output from an IMR high drain. I use ICR and don't really notice a drop off until the battery is almost dead. Your battery might just need more cycling (drain and recharge).
     
  3. 4matic

    4matic Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    cool thanks. So usually brand new batteries get better over time?

    and by drain and recharge you don't mean full drain right? At what voltage do you suggest I start charging the battery
     
  4. tc1

    tc1 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yes, a cycle = low battery and recharge. It can take up to 10+ cycles to break in a battery.

    As far as when to charge, you can let it go all the way down until you can not fire anymore. I personally charge my battery when I know I can get a full charge in while awake or at home. My battery generally goes no farther below 3.5-3.6 before I go ahead and pop a new battery in.
     
  5. Thompson

    Thompson Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    To a degree of course. All batteries have a life expectancy (I see 500 cycles listed often) so they will begin to degrade slowly. Degradation will be quicker if exposed to inhospitable environments (hot/cold, over discharge/charge, etc).

    I think most APV will cut off power around 3.2 volts. I personally even try to avoid this, and will charge it around 3.4 volts (this is right about where my PV starts giving its low voltage warning).

    Lowering the cells voltage to 2.8 or lower can be extremely hazardous, hence the built in cut offs APVs use. I think protected cells will also stop themselves from getting too low (but not 100% on this).
     
  6. kot1rc5

    kot1rc5 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Cycling or calibrating are NOT needed on lithium ion batteries like was required with nickle base batteries.

    From How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
    "If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a while."

    Learn about batteries here. Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University
     
  7. tc1

    tc1 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    When I say cycle ... I do not mean a full discharge cycle. That's actually a BAD thing with Lion batteries. The less voltage you have on a Lion, the weaker the cell becomes over time. Lion batteries can and often DO however come to you in "sleep mode" fresh from the factory. In such a case, it takes several cycles before the internal chemistry of the Lion becomes 100% active.

    That is why notebook companies often suggest the initial charge be over night, followed by a discharge, then a recharge, rinse and repeat until the battery seems to be lasting as long as they should. In fact, some notebooks have this feature builtin to the BIOS.
     
  8. Faylool

    Faylool Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    This being a Vamo thread I was told IMR for regulated like Vamo and ICR for mods that are unregulated
     
  9. tc1

    tc1 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Depends on the ICR. An unprotected ICR with a 5amp discharge rate would work in the Vamo and other apvs for the vast majority of people out there. Since I'm never pushing my Vamo close to 5 amps, the unprotected ICRs I have work fine. Devices who have 2-3.5 amp draw rates are definitely within the range of a 5amp unprotected ICR these days.

    Back in the day ICRs had pretty low amp discharge rates (1-2 amps), now there are plenty of decent discharge rate ICRs.
     
  10. Faylool

    Faylool Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thankyou for this answer. I was confusing something then because the "iCR" I'm talking about is definitely protected. I guess it's not an ICR or it's a protected one. Just when I was thinking I am sure about my stuff. This is important to me too because myAWIMR 18350 little guys are very short lived and they didn't seem to come any higher mah. Tell what exactly I might get in an ICR like you are talking about to use as a single battery for my Vamo that has thousands of mah
     
  11. 4matic

    4matic Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Does that 5amp discharge rate decrease as battery life decreases?
     
  12. tc1

    tc1 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yes, there are protected and unprotected ICR batteries. Discharge rates remain the same as a battery drains.
     
  13. MattB101

    MattB101 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Protected batteries will not work in the VAMO. You will get weirdness and cutting off problems.
     
  14. Bimini Twist

    Bimini Twist Twisted Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Ssssshhhhh! Don't let my VAMO hear that!

    I've been using Orbtronic's Protected 2900mAh 18650 Li-ion Battery - Cell Panasonic NCR18650 - Protection ICs- Made in Japan - Top Button in my VAMO for about a week with no trouble. I originally bought them for flashlights, but figured what the heck - try them.

    I think the weirdness/cutout problems may be depend on the over-current protection circuit. I suspect many are set to cut out at lower amperage than the VAMO might use. Orbtronic's site doesn't specify the amps for my specific battery, but shows 8A for their 3100mAh version.
     
: vamo, evic, vapor pro
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