If you have tinnitus (ringing in your ears)... Propylene Glycol is ototoxic.

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by southpark2033, Dec 2, 2013.

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  1. southpark2033

    southpark2033 Full Member

    I have tinnitus from taking antibiotics years ago. It died down considerably after a few months, almost disappearing. It still acts up when I take aspirin or listen to loud music for too long. I just want to say, in my experience, I had a huge, almost immediate return of the ringing when I vaped 50/50 and 70/30 juices. In case anyone is wondering if their symptoms are due to vaping, I came to the conclusion that it can't be the nicotine. When I smoked, and when I drink coffee (still do), I never got symptoms. I researched the other ingredients and found a site with a study done on the ototoxicity of propylene glycol: Ototoxicity of propylene glycol in experime... [Am J Otolaryngol. 1980] - PubMed - NCBI

    Since I switched to 100% vg juice, the problem has gone away drastically within just three days. I am sitting in a quiet room and can hardly hear the ringing anymore; it is very faint. I will continue to use vg-only juice and if it goes away completely (as it usually does, for me) it's a success story. Just wanted to offer my advice to anyone who is having this issue.
     
  2. serenity21899

    serenity21899 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    My husband has tinnitus, and vapes occasionally. We both use high PG juice. Since I have started vaping, his tinnitus has diminished. Could be another factor, but it would go along with what you are saying.
     
  3. Ryedan

    Ryedan Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Very interesting. I have had tinnitus for decades. When I first started vaping I used the typical 70/30 PG/VG juices but it irritated my throat a bit so I moved more and more to VG. I'm now at about 80% to 90% VG. I've not noticed any change in the tinnitus from when I was still smoking to now, but something is obviously changing for you :thumb:. It will be interesting to see if other people share your experience.
     
  4. Mark Anthony

    Mark Anthony Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks for the info but I've had no ringing since I started over 2 months ago...... :toast:
     
  5. Ryedan

    Ryedan Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Are you using PG?
     
  6. EddardinWinter

    EddardinWinter Pride Male Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    From the link. Bold is my emphasis added.

    How was it "applied" relative to the exposures that would be typical with vaping a 30% solution of PG? This appears to indicate that it was placed directly on the coclea in the study. I cannot access the full study to review the methodology further. This would indicate that without a burst ear drum, the risk is negligible.

    There could be something to PG causing allergy/irritation to your condition. This is an apples to oranges comparison...

    I am not sure that this study is very strong supporting evidence to what you are saying is the case.
     
  7. r77r7r

    r77r7r Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mine is mild-moderate all day with an occasional loud Buzz. Love to be rid of it. Had an hour this past Summer sitting outside where it went away- Sooooo peaceful!!!!

    When sitting here at the PC (ringing away), I use this Noise Generator-
    HTML5 Noise Generator | PlayNoise.com
     
  8. GoodNews!

    GoodNews! Moved On

    Overall, based on experience, I think VG is a safer option than PG, but I don't know the full research. I recommend Velvet Cloud Vapors because they use only organic ingredients for every single little thing, and also throw some distilled water in the mix to make the %100VG taste and wick better, and it certainly seems to perform pretty well. They also have great prices ($5 off initial purchase with the newsletter, additional coupons, and free bottles with each purchase) and their customer service is utterly amazing, they sent me some really great freebies just for reporting an issue with one of the juices. Some of their juices are still out on the jury concerning taste, but so far, I'm getting good notes from their Candy Bar flavor, and many love the Night Shift.

    Smell great too.
     
  9. cags

    cags Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    my case is mild. I use 50/50 with no noticeable changes
     
  10. B1sh0p

    B1sh0p Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran


    "Safer?" How so?
     
  11. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I was 11-12 years old when I first realized everyone else did not hear the same background squeal. It has been there as long as I can remember, never stops, but I'm used to it. Smoking or not smoking cigarettes over the decades never changed it one way or the other, even when I stopped for periods over a year long. I absolutely DO notice it's louder (or I'm noticing it more) since beginning to vape. In fact I mentioned it to friends a couple months ago. Though I smoked only 10-15 light cigs per day, I'm vaping 20+%, so I suspected it was literally a nicotine "buzz."

    I mix my liquids at 50-70% PG. I already planned to try 0mg out of curiosity (to see how lack of nic affects me). If I don't notice a change in the tinnitus, I'll try pure VG for a while. It would be nice to reduce the noise level a bit.

    Thanks for posting your experience, very interesting.
     
  12. FearTX

    FearTX Vooping Furiously. Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I have the ringing from years of loud music, I played bass for some years, and have listened to ridiculously loud music for most of my life. Mine has not changed a bit in the last month. I vape 60% PG and above, as high as 80% on some juices. I have vaped on and off for some time and exclusively since Nov. 5

    "One of the most common solvents, propylene glycol, was chosen for this study, and this agent in various concentrations was instilled into the middle ear"

    "Propylene glycol should not be used in the ear that has a perforation of the tympanic membrane."

    Seems legit, I will refrain from pouring my juice in my ear if I get a perforation of some kind, or maybe even ever.

    PG is also the solvent for some "water insoluble" drugs that are given intravenously, there is a small percentage of the population that have toxic reactions to it. Not so much that they do not use it as a carrier but enough that they have emergency protocols for the reactions.

    There may well be some relation if you are PG sensitive.
     
  13. AgentAnia

    AgentAnia Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    The human body is a wondrously complicated biological machine. There's a vast difference between inhaling a chemical and applying it topically, both in the way the substance is absorbed and in the way the body reacts to and processes it. And we are all different; what works for one person doesn't automatically work for all.

    Apples to oranges to pineapples...

    ETA: The title of this thread is misleading and counterproductive, IMO. :2c:
     
  14. Caridwen

    Caridwen ECF Moderator Senior Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Moving to Health- with hopes that people are more polite there.
     
  15. dahlialady

    dahlialady Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Thanks for the post, I have been vaping 70pg/30 vg heavily for one month and have not seen any change in my tinnitus (moderate to severe right ear, light left ear) at all. I've had tinnitus for 10 years. Reading the study it seems that it is ototoxic if applied directly into the ear. I have no worries.
     
  16. EddardinWinter

    EddardinWinter Pride Male Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I respectfully disagree your comment which appears to imply that my post was not polite. The OP was posting this link to alert ECF to a hazard of vaping PG solution. I assumed it was done because he/she did not realize that the procedure from the quoted study was not inhalation of PG at all, but topical application of it directly onto the cochlea. If you look at the abstract, you can see that I quoted it to clarify. I don't want people thinking this study gives evidence of damage to the cochlea when a PG solution is inhaled as vapor, because it clearly doesn't. It gives evidence that the direct application of PG solution to the cochlea results in deterioration of same. This is not possible to apply this solution with the ear drum membrane in a non-perforated state, since there is no way to access the cochlea except surgically, or through this membrane. The conclusion of the study supports all of my assertions made here.

    My statement in response to the post before it "with a burst ear drum" was relevant and applied to the core thesis of the OP, since when the ear drum membrane is intact, you could in fact put e-liquid in your ear and likely suffer no ill-effects to the cochlea from PG. I don't appreciate the insinuation that I was being anything less than polite. I was trying to prevent the spread of misinformation about vaping on this site.
     
  17. TheJakeBailey

    TheJakeBailey Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    This thread caught my eye, JUST as I was closing the app. I came back because I have experienced the EXACT same thing. (Years of playing drums) I can't say there is a connection, but I did notice the ringing got noticeably louder after I started vaping. Enough that I wondered about it many times, but assumedit was just in my head. (Pun intended). I use mostly 50/50. Again, don't know if its related, but I definitely noticed a change!
     
  18. _Lee

    _Lee Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I am no doctor, but I do have a congenital hearing impairment. There are LOTS of things you would not think affect tinnitus, but they do.

    Too much salt that day, thyroid, blood pressure, aspirin, inflammation in the ear, allergies, stress, silence, ear wax, certain head/neck positions, tumors, and it goes on and on...
     
  19. JollyRogers

    JollyRogers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I have tinnitus, and have dealt with it for at least 10 years now. Between getting caught outside during a gunnery exercise and working on electronic equipment with loud fans blowing and 400hz noise, it got me, and it is part of my disability rating from the VA. I cannot listen to remotely loud music, as it physically hurts my ears now, along with the windows being down on the car, and wind noise when riding the bike. I wear earplugs whenever doing anything that would expose me to loud noise. As far as vaping, when my nic level gets up, my tinnitus kicks into high gear - and it is going right now. It is one way I can tell my nic intake levels :D I vape 100% VG most of the time, and sometimes vape a 50/50 mix. I do not believe PG has any effect one way or another, and have no intention of using my e-liquid as an ear drop ;)
     
  20. Tommy Trauma

    Tommy Trauma Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Interesting thread. I stumbled upon it yesterday, and have wondered why my ringing (I describe it more like the cicadas in the summer, is that what tinitis sounds like to you?) has gotten worse. I tried a test yesterday to put the vaping down for the whole day, and honestly I forgot to "listen" whether or not the cicadas went away. I vape a 50/50 Black honey tobacco blend, but after over 2 years of vaping I've never associated them damn cicadas with vaping. Would love to hear more about this if it is in fact associated with PG. I only have hearing in my right ear due to a child hood accident where they had to remove all the hearing bones in my left ear.
     
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