I'm not a smoker. Is this worth getting into?

[~Wonder]

Could you elaborate on this more? So none of the flavors will be as good/intense/tasty/whatever as my hookah experience?

I'm in a similar boat as you. I only smoke socially, probably only a few packs a year. I got my sister a PV because she's been smoking going on 13 years and really needs to quit. I got myself one, it's in the mail as we speak, to use instead of cigarettes those few times I actually indulge. I have tried various flavors on my sisters PV. Anyways, I own a hookah, although I rarely use it, it's too much of a pain in the .... to set up and I'm a klutz and always manage to drop the coal. My experience in flavor of the PV, I've used a DSE-901b, versus the hookah is generally that the flavor from the PV is weaker for most flavors plus you get significantly less smoke, well vapor. The Cappuccino flavor from Janty has a decently strong flavor comparable to a hookah. The strawberry and mint did not. All the tobacco-y flavors have a black pepper-iness to them which isn't all that pleasant. I recommend you get some PG and some flavors from Lorann and mix up your own, that way you can make them stronger if need be, plus it'll be cheaper overall. I don't think vaping or smoking is harmful in moderation, moderation being the key. Good luck

 

[strayling]

So, after receiving some complaints about this thread and the OP, I have just spent the last half hour+ reading this entire thread. My conclusion at this point is that idontuse is not a troll.

(snip)

Now....play nice peeps! I have lots of other complaints to look at yet.

Lu

Will do. To be clear, I wasn't taking a pop at idontuse but at jonleflar, who I do think was asking suspiciously leading questions. Either way, I've said my piece and will now go back to sweetness and light mode.

Edit: Actually, I think I'll go to the bar. Have a pleasant evening, all.

 

[Phalse]

Yeah, people talk about addictive personalities blah blah. Sure they can class people as "addictive" personality and "non addictive" personality.

I think everyone has the ability to be addicted to things.

You get addicted to things through feedback loops. Either negative or positive.
If you play football and get a rush, feel good, chemicals are released which cause those feelings, you want that again. You play football more, you practice more, it becomes a hobby. You are addicted to everything you enjoy though a positive feedback loop.

You can be addicted to negative *things that hurt others or even yourself* through negative feedback loops, twisted things that cause people to stay in abusive relationships, abuse children and drugs.
Their sense of pleasure and memories of it are tied up and confused by negative feelings and emotions. They remember how good things were and want that again, even though now they are feeling only pain, or maybe pleasure depending on the act.

You can grind your teeth and it hurts, that makes you mad. You grind your teeth more, leading to further discomfort. Stress builds from that and causes you to clench your jaw even more! Then you go to the dentist and get a bite plate like pretty much everyone has or will. They call em out in the waiting room *bite plate for missy!* lol

I hate you people who think you have the "truth" on your side, yet try to repress discussion on the basis of "the FDA doesnt operate on logic"
Screw you and your stupid fears, and your repression of discussion and the truth. You hiding because your scared of some Ban, then telling people not to talk about this or that because of your opinion....makes me sick. I hate you.

Stand up for yourself, stop being weaklings. Anyone can smoke or do whatever they want, there are consequences. Maybe you should inform this person of the consequences without telling others what to do.

"Oh nicotine is horrible, toxic." "You can get addicted to 0-nic flavors." "The health risk of this product is still under discussion although there is proof in its favor."

It took quite a few responses just to get this information to the original poster.

You think people don't get addicted to other things? You think e-cigs are different and gives you a right to repress the truth and free speech, tell other people (Posters Online) what to say and do because you want to appease another group who wants to tell people what to say and do(FDA). DIE

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

There is one, very valid point in this whole thread I would like to emphasize: more people-non smokers-are going to be coming to this site curious as all hell. We need to be able to tell them something WITHOUT drama....that this lifestyle we have chosen as an alternative to tobacco use is a personal choice, is NOT proven, MIGHT be dangerous, and is NOT something to be taken as the next new fad.

Perhaps a sticky with FAQ's for smokers and non-smokers could be put together?

 

[taukimada]

There is one, very valid point in this whole thread I would like to emphasize: more people-non smokers-are going to be coming to this site curious as all hell. We need to be able to tell them something WITHOUT drama....that this lifestyle we have chosen as an alternative to tobacco use is a personal choice, is NOT proven, MIGHT be dangerous, and is NOT something to be taken as the next new fad.

Perhaps a sticky with FAQ's for smokers and non-smokers could be put together?

i dunno... we keep flying off the handle and they are REALLY gonna tell us to PLEASE go smoke a marlboro

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

i dunno... we keep flying off the handle and they are REALLY gonna tell us to PLEASE go smoke a marlboro

Hell, they'll probably drive to our location, stick a ciggy in our mouths, and LIGHT it for us! 8-o

 

[Nick O'Teen]

There is one, very valid point in this whole thread I would like to emphasize: more people-non smokers-are going to be coming to this site curious as all hell. We need to be able to tell them something WITHOUT drama....that this lifestyle we have chosen as an alternative to tobacco use is a personal choice, is NOT proven, MIGHT be dangerous, and is NOT something to be taken as the next new fad.

Perhaps a sticky with FAQ's for smokers and non-smokers could be put together?

That is a VERY good idea.

 

[CssReb]

I must admit after reading the whole fiasco regarding dc2k's survey http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hensive-electronic-cigarette-user-survey.html ,
it made me feel a bit suspicious of nonsmokers and teens asking if vaping is right for them, because it looks cool and the flavor selection is appealing.

I do apologize for calling the question moronic.

 

[Phalse]

If they want to use it as the next new fad, no one has the right to deny them.

If they live in america, even the FDA ban on imports and sales of nicotine liquid wont stop people from using e-cigs.

That sucks if you live somewhere where they can ban "vaporizers" and "non-nic liquid"
Both of those things are legal in the united states and are not under FDA regulation.

Nor under any other persons regulation.

 

[CandyGirl]

Thank you for the link! I assume those are designed to be used when cooking, so whatever organic compounds are in there to provide flavors must be able to stand up to high temperatures, right? So there's no need to worry about anything breaking down into a toxic chemical when it is vaporized.

if it was a little phishing trip, i believe this was the reason for the journey.
has tons of info on every other aspect, thoroughly researched.
but on this issue we're going to just "assume".
a little vague on the whole flavorings/high temperatures/toxicity issue,
so wants OUR advice for that. right?




so my answer would be no. NOTHING has been proven safe

 

[jonleflar]

We've already today had someone claiming to be an 18 year old who wants to start vaping, and that would be wonderful propaganda for prohibitionists.

Will do. To be clear, I wasn't taking a pop at idontuse but at jonleflar, who I do think was asking suspiciously leading questions.

What do I need to do to get you off my back? Do you not like me because you think I'm someone other than who I said I am, or because of my interest in vaping as a nonsmoker? I'm not going anywhere, and I don't want a regular member spreading rumors or besmirching my character all because I made an honest thread which was interpreted wrong.

 

[breakfastchef]

The electronic cigarette was developed and specifically targeted at smokers by Ruyan, (part of the Golden Dragon Group) in China. Though these products are not marketed as smoking cessation devices in the U.S. by reputable suppliers and distributors, I am certain the original intent of the product was to do just that. Everyone knows it, the FDA knows it and most of us on this forum know it. Of course, there is immense economic benefits to the manufaturer(s) to get all of us addicted to a new habit.

Since the vast majority of fourm members are smokers, ex-smokers or somewhere in between, personal vaporizers have been used with differing levels of success to cut down or completely quit the use of regular tobacco products. I have not had a tobacco cigarette in 40 days. That is as close to a miracle as I have ever been witness to.

There are tons of posts about the doom and gloom of FDA crackdowns, confiscated shipments at U.S. borders, local bans on the use of personal vaporizers and a bunch of outright bans by many nations worldwide. This sort of sets the tone of the environment as it applies to these devices and associated accessories/products. I don't generally subscribe to all these conspiracy theories, but you do get caught up in it to some degree. I am a smoking addict and I wish to make the decision to use the personal vaporizer to possibly prolong my life much the way I chose to begin smoking tobacco, which was shortening my life.

So, when a non-smoker begins to query about vaping, the hair stands on the back of the necks of lots of people here on the forum. Kind of like a six year old coming to breakfast in the morning and asking for a cup of coffee.

To the OP and jonleflar, a non-smoker vaping for fun is something that most of us are uncomfortable with and have never really spent much time contemplating. I am sure there will be more and more people popping up on this forum who are going to be intrigued by the "it looks like fun and is safe" reasons.

A few closing points...

I am fairly certain that zero nicotine smoking juices have no nicotine in them
There are several suppliers that offer 0 nicotine juices
Flavors can be tasty
The equipment is inherently unreliable and frustrating
Long term effects of vaping and second-hand vapor are unknown

Sorry you two are the most battered test cases of the 'fury of the forum' to date.

 

[jonleflar]

Sorry you two are the most battered test cases of the 'fury of the forum' to date.

I won't hold it against any body. I asked a member here about them on YouTube, and he gave me a nice version of what has been told to me so far. He linked to this forum, and I figured from the other videos I've seen on YT, there must have been more people like me who have asked what I did. I didn't see a sticky, so I guess that should have been a sign.

 

[taz3cat]

There have been some food flavoring that have been proven to be toxic and cause lung diseases, one is artificale Butter Flavor, some almond and Bannana flavors are toxic. There is a list of flavorings that are toxic. Nothing is safe even FDA appproved flavorings.

Janty is coming out with a Hooka (what ever it called) and some one else is too. You may want to play with them. They will be for social group things. Just be sure to use PG and safe flavoring in them. You don't have to buy e-juice, Just do a DIY juice without nicotine. There ar plenty of recipes on the forum for no nictoine juice.

 

[idontusetobacco]

if it was a little phishing trip, i believe this was the reason for the journey.
has tons of info on every other aspect, thoroughly researched.
but on this issue we're going to just "assume".
a little vague on the whole flavorings/high temperatures/toxicity issue,
so wants OUR advice for that. right?




so my answer would be no. NOTHING has been proven safe

For the last time, drop the attitude! Notice the question mark? Question marks are generally used when someone is...wait for....questioning something! I wasn't assuming anything. I was asking a freaking question! Do you mean to tell me that you've never in your life said "I assume blah blah blah is true, right?" when trying to get information? Try to follow my logic here: LorAnn is sold on amazon.com. It is apparently for use in baking. Baking means 350+ degree heat. If the product is for use in food and it is sold in America (through amazon.com no less!) I assume (perhaps incorrectly?) that it is FDA approved. Now if I'm the FDA, the second thing I check is if a substances metabolic products are toxic (the first is, is the actual stuff toxic!). Therefore, I assume that none of the LorAnn oils are going to break down into anything nasty when they are vaporized, because these vaporizers work at much lower temperatures than the inside of my oven when I'm baking cookies. If there is some part of my chain of logic that's faulty, by all means, please inform me. You people know more about this stuff than I do. I'm here to learn.

There have been some food flavoring that have been proven to be toxic and cause lung diseases, one is artificale Butter Flavor, some almond and Bannana flavors are toxic. There is a list of flavorings that are toxic. Nothing is safe even FDA appproved flavorings.

Can you point me towards this list? That would be helpful. Do you mean nothing is safe when vaporized, or nothing is safe for ingestion at all, period, even though the FDA has approved it?

 

[CssReb]

 

[taz3cat]

Just beause the FDA approves a product does not mean it is safe for off use, they approve drugs and doctors use them for other than they were developed for. that is the same things with food flavoring and then sometimes the FDA gets it seriously wrong and then it makes headlines. A fact of life is that as things change in our worlds what is safe changes. Don't take everything the Goverment or FDA does as bing ablolutely correct all the time.

This wonderful internet will give you toxcology reports for almost any chemical you want to know about. I have look up all the chemicals in the e-liquid I use, one at a time. The lesson is don't take others peoples words for important things like your health, check it out yourself, make informed decisions.

Here are some flavoring and food additives that are supposed to be toxic. May be in larger quality’s than we use because aspartame is included in the list and some don’t say what they taste like.

TOXIC FLAVOR LIST
Possible Adverse Effects
BENZALDEHYDE: Artificial almond flavoring. PAE: central nervous system depression and convulsions.
CLOVE BUD EXTRACT: Natural flavoring. PAE: Rat studies revealed paralysis of their jaws, hind legs and eventually died.
AMYL ACETATE: Pear and banana oil. Used as a flavoring in drinks and in various non-food products. PAE: centeral nervous system depression, ingestion, chest pain, headache, fatigue and irriation the mucous membranesto
Possible Adverse Effects

 

[Pathogen]

I gotta admit, I'm brand new to this vaping business, and I've been lurking the forums over the last couple weeks. Gathering all the information I can, I've even ordered my first PV. I've been a pack a day smoker for 5 years now, and up until this post I've been excited about joining this community to try and better myself with support and information networks I didn't have available to me before. After reading this thread (almost entirely, might I add) I feel like I don't want to post anything in fear of being publicly ridiculed, accused, and as blatantly mistreated as this OP is. Even if they were a troll or a plant, how is being courteous and honest going to do anything to hurt vaping? The only thing this thread has managed to do, in my opinion is leave a foul taste in my mouth, and it sucks to think that people as genuine and excited to finally be off analogs would treat anyone like this.

 

[chokmah]

I gotta admit, I'm brand new to this vaping business, and I've been lurking the forums over the last couple weeks. Gathering all the information I can, I've even ordered my first PV. I've been a pack a day smoker for 5 years now, and up until this post I've been excited about joining this community to try and better myself with support and information networks I didn't have available to me before. After reading this thread (almost entirely, might I add) I feel like I don't want to post anything in fear of being publicly ridiculed, accused, and as blatantly mistreated as this OP is. Even if they were a troll or a plant, how is being courteous and honest going to do anything to hurt vaping? The only thing this thread has managed to do, in my opinion is leave a foul taste in my mouth, and it sucks to think that people as genuine and excited to finally be off analogs would treat anyone like this.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I can honestly say that quiting for some is extremely stressful and withdrawls are crappy. Some can walk away from analogs easier than some and those that have smoked analogs and have tried to quit before know these things. You can be defensive, snappy, sad, jumpy and completely not yourself. Quiting analogs is the hardest thing ever as I am on my 3rd round with the e-cig. That is not to even mention all the NRT's I have tried prior to discovering e-cigs.
Point is, I don't see how anyone who does not have a prior habit would want one just because it seems cool to blow vapor to appear as smoke.

For safety please read the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/ as with flavorings you need NON- OIL Based and other small safety precautions.. Like the glycerine to be USP foodgrade prppoline glycol.. This isnt suggesting but for safety measures only as I would hate for someone to get hurt buying the wrong items.

 

[CssReb]

and it sucks to think that people as genuine and excited to finally be off analogs would treat anyone like this.

I'm genuine and excited to finally be off analogs