Important update from ECITA: Legal advice re prospective bans

Discussion in 'UK Forum' started by freakindahouse, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. freakindahouse

    freakindahouse Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Hi, all,

    We met with the legal team yesterday to discuss our options in the face of the EU proposal, and the imminent MHRA position statement. (We anticipate that the MHRA will announce on the 13th March, rather than waiting until May, because they like to roll the drum on No Smoking Day.)

    We discussed all the issues for both UK and EU level. The legal experts reckon we have a strong case, particularly with regard to proportionality, and we shall be getting an official Opinion from a QC in the next couple of weeks. They described the proposed Directive as possibly being 'legally flawed' in several respects, which means we have a good chance of mounting a successful legal challenge.

    We shall continue to fire on all cylinders, and will be asking for your help in getting the right messages to the right people in each of your constituencies in the coming weeks. I hope we can count on your support as we all join together for this crucial fight.

    This is not an industry fighting for its survival in isolation; this is a fight for every single one of us who has discovered vaping - and it is a fight for our lives. We hope you will join us as we take the fight to them, rather than waiting for them to attack us even further.

    Sincere thanks to Elites, not only for providing outstanding Chairmanship of ECITA since its inception in the form of Mike Ryan, but also for providing access to a top notch legal team, with the expertise and skills to bring us ALL safely home - as an industry and as a community of vapers.

    We shall keep you informed as things progress, and would be grateful if a moderator could sticky this thread.

    Happy and very long-lived vaping, one and all!


  2. freakindahouse

    freakindahouse Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Hi, all,

    Firstly, I'd like to apologise to the Mods here for my shameless spamming of this information. It's vitally important that all the UK and EU vapers are aware of this information, but if it is deemed inappropriate then by all means take whatever action you need to. I hope, however, that you will want to help as we move towards the end game. Secondly, if there is a way for you to reduce the number of posts while keeping this information easily accessible to all those who need it (assuming you would want to, which I am relatively confident about!) then please do tidy up. I am sorry, but it is not clear to me where this would need to go, so I'm trying to put it everywhere! :)

    OK, as promised the handout is up and ready for download. I know it's a bit cheeky, but if everyone here printed it out and hand delivered it to each of their MPs and MEPs, maybe, just maybe we can make a difference? Obviously, if you don't agree with anything it says, then don't, but if you DO agree, and want to protect YOUR right to vape, then please get this out there!

    ECITA A4 2-sided Handout Feb 2013 - PDF

    Also, if you supply into local shops in your area, or know the people in there, maybe you could encourage those outlets to display the information with the products? Anything we can do to get the message out there can only help.

    Thank you all for your support!


  3. NeilSwift

    NeilSwift Moved On Verified Member

    Dear Katherine,

    Firstly, may I post a few lines to appreciate and applaud the time and effort you have afforded to us on this. You come across as a genuine and passionate advocate for all that want to vape. I would assume this trait is replicated in many aspects of your life. Well done.

    I am relatively new here, and to vaping, but not new to this world. I would like to think that the people would be listened to by governments the world over but have not yet experienced this without civil uprisings and war. I seriously doubt civil uprising will happen after e-fluids get banned. The government and pharmaceutical companies go hand in hand and the loss of revenue they would encounter would be massive. Money talks. I think we will loose.

    I have printed off the hand out and will do my best to help us all to keep vaping but will not be holding my tar and carbon monoxide free breath.

    Please advise if this has gone sticky yet. Can't see that it has but the site is so big. If it's still not I will make some noise. We have our own section and should be afforded the same levels of service.

    Kind regards. Neil.
  4. freakindahouse

    freakindahouse Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks, Neil. The fact of the matter is that the EU proposals - as currently drafted - are ILLEGAL. This means that they cannot force this through - unless we let them. We will NOT let them, and they will lose.

    The MHRA is a mere pebble in our sandal, if you will, and will not be difficult to quash either. There really is no need to panic. I think there is a tendency sometimes - born of our collective very real frustration at being taken for idiots and treated like naughty children - to overplay the conspiracy theories and corruption. Yes, the conspiracy theories are in large part true, and yes, corruption is rife throughout the politics and the regulatory systems globally. However, courts are repeatedly finding in our favour, and these case precedents stack up. We have 3 positive rulings from the US, 4 so far from mainland Europe, plus we expect another one in a few weeks; ( I hope to be able to publish that news when it happens, but will need permission to publish the specifics), and yet another Member State has asked us to roll out an ECITA office there.

    Guernsey is a really interesting case, together with the Isle of Man. These are two independent island states; they are not members of the UK, nor are they Member States of the EU. They are completely independent, and therefore largely free of the lobbying efforts the rest of the world is subjected to. And what have they done regarding ecigs? Well, Guernsey looked at the evidence base - in depth. Their states analyst and their Trading Standards officer (they borrowed the TS model from the UK :p) both spoke with us (ECITA) independently, and then we met with them together.

    We shared our information about the scientific database; we shared some liquid testing results. The upshot? These two officers recommended to the Health Ministry on Guernsey that ecigs could be a benefit to the health of the islanders and should be allowed, subject to compliance with the law, administered by ECITA (just because it made their lives easier, I suspect! ;))

    The Isle of Man also independently made their way to the decision that ecigs should be allowed to be sold. I assume they are regulating them as consumer products too.

    Interesting how different the situation is when you factor out all of the lobbying, bad science, and nonsense, isn't it?

    So there really is no need to worry. However, if you can help with writing to your elected representatives, and handing out our leaflet to every Tom, .... and Harry (plus his dog, cat and hamster) if they seem like they might be interested, then we would be very grateful.

    The message WILL get through; we WILL win.

    Happy vaping, one and all!


  5. NeilSwift

    NeilSwift Moved On Verified Member

    I think you optimism is contagious .

    Keep up the good work.

    We have three shops in my town (e-cig shops, not just shops lol) I will ask them to pin the hand outs up.
  6. Dave S

    Dave S Full Member

    I think your doing a fantastic job Katherine, keep up the good work and more power to your elbow:)
  7. NeilSwift

    NeilSwift Moved On Verified Member

    I think you'll find this has been stickied.

    I asked the moderators to help out and a very very nice man called Chuck obliged.

    Is it just me or are others feeling a little more optimistic regarding a ban?

    Cheers Katherine :toast:
  8. freakindahouse

    freakindahouse Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks Neil, and Chuck!


  9. kiefurs

    kiefurs Full Member

    Firstly I must apologise for my ignorance here...I'm very new to vaping and the forum.

    Are we talking about an outright ban on vaping, or is it a ban on vaping in public places?

  10. kiefurs

    kiefurs Full Member

    Ok guys ...Sorry, been trawling through all the info on here and I'm up to date now

    Disregard the last post

  11. KatyTheCleaningLady

    KatyTheCleaningLady Full Member

    Hello, I'm quite new and still studying up.

    I have a question:

    What, exactly, is scheduled to happen on the 8th of October? and, if the vote were to go against us, would it immediately go into effect? Could all the vape shops and venders be forced to shut down immediately?
  12. Codz

    Codz Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    No, it will be 2016 before it comes into force in the UK. That's if nothing changes between now and then, and if it does occur than it will also depend on if any current / new vendors and suppliers can get their stuff licensed (which will be prohibitively expensive for virtually all)

    Press releases : MHRA
  13. Enigmatica

    Enigmatica Full Member

    I'm very new too but I've sent an email to the Welsh government consultation page as soon as I saw it. We have the moral high ground here whereas when we smoked we didn't. Every single argument against vaping seems riddled with coach and horse sized holes.
  14. Ripshod

    Ripshod Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    2016? In my reckoning I'll be done with vaping by then.

    However I'll not be dropping my support. The way I see it we still have 2yrs to save peeps from the smellies - that is guaranteed. Given the chance that the legislation doesn't go through on the first attempts we have a lot longer.

    Vape on!!

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