Kayfun Prime (MTL they said)

[AstroTurf]

Michael,

I am not the one to give throat hit advice.

Hopefully some will chime in.

Jim

 

[VictorC]

@evan le'garde

I do have them both, K4 and KP. And trying to compare.

But almost everything about vape quality, including TH, is very subjective. So all I can say that they are different RTAs and vape (TH, saturation, etc) is different. BTW, I didn't like K5 and sold it but keeping KP.

 

[mrcrunch08]

I'm still using my Kayfun V4 simply because the throat hit is perfect. No other tank i've ever had comes close.

I have a Russian 91%. Apart from all the obvious problems that come with it, if i were to compare it to the Kayfun V4, i'd say the Russian provides a much less noticeable throat hit. (Both were compared with smoke juice from the same bottle- hundreds of times !).

I'd judge any and all tanks i've used and will be using to the experience i get from the Kayfun V4.

So my question, to anyone who can provide a suitable answer is "Does the Kayfun Prime produce a throat hit as good as the V4 does ?".

I realise these particular threads are read and written by big Svoemesto Kayfun fans.Therefore i'm also aware that if Svoemesto produce something then most will go out and buy it whether it's any good or not (K5 thread is full of testamonials to that fact). I'm not one of those people !. I just want to know if this thing can do what the V4 does. The fact that design has been improved, and ignoring the existence of the K5 abomination (Never owned one but rely on threads such as the K5 thread to make up my mind for me), is this new innovation an improvement over the V4 as far as vapour qualily (Mainly texture) is concerned ?. To me, the Prime "IS" the real K5.

I have no experience of any other Kayfuns. I won't understand you if you start comparing any of these tanks. Closest thing i have, apart from an authentic V4, is a Russian 91%. And if the Russian is anything like any previous iterations of Kayfun then that Kayfun won't work for me anyway.

I read the descriptions of the Prime and it does have a smaller evaporation chamber, apparently to increase flavour. My concern, seeing as the Russian has quite a small chamber, is a smaller chamber might not produce a worthwhile throat hit. Does it or not ?.


If you do use a V4 for the same reason i do and have recently acquired a Kayfun Prime, and have used it, could you please tell me if i should even bother buying a Prime. I do like the improvements and i am hopeful that the Prime is in actual fact the genuine evolutionary Kayfun and not just another piece of crap like the K5.

I had to stop smoking for health reasons about 4/5 years ago. I loved smoking and really didn't want to give up, not at all !. Present day i genuinely don't smoke habitually nor socially. What a tank is capable of providing means everything. It isn't neccessarily about aesthetics or improvements really. It is simply about what the tank does to the smoke juice and what the texture of that vapour has, does to my throat. If vaping could in no way totally replace smoking for me, which is what the V4 does, then i wouldn't bother vaping.

I don't know who here still smokes, who here vapes for a hobby or does it to cut down on their smoking habit. So i don't know who here takes vaping as seriously as me, i'm a deadly serious vaper, like my life literally depended on it. Flavour doesn't matter so much, the improvements do. If this new tank has been compomised purely to improve aesthetics and usability then i'm not interested in it. What i am interested in is the facts which can be provided by someone who is as passionate about getting a satisfying vape as i am. I'm not asking if anyone agrees or disagrees with the content of this post. Just an honest, basic, transparent assessment of the Prime's ability to satisfy the cravings. Which, i am afraid to say, is something members have completely forgotten about seems to me. Either that or just don't bother posting about it. Funny aint it !. Everyone's concerned about usability and aesthetics. No one seems to ever post about whether these devices actually satisfy the cravings associated with smoking. Which, may i remind you, why anyone bothers vaping to begin with.

The Prime does look absolutely lovely though, doesn't it ?. Like those dummy phones you get in phone shops.

Who cares how it looks !?

This is another example of how a vape experience can be different for everyone. There are so many variables that seem insignificant but can really impact ones opinion of a device. I own a bunch of russian 91%'s and kayfuns. I also own two v4's and with how I build I was actually getting a softer vape with slightly less TH with the v4. I also find the flavor to be less in the v4 compared to the previous kayfuns. The v4 was part of why I never bothered with the v5. Considering many of us have been vaping for 7 years or more I would say there are plenty of serious vapers here and everyone has good input even if it can be contradictory to your or my experience. With that said I find the vape from the prime to be closer to what I loved about the old kayfuns. The TH for me is much sharper and more defined than the v4 and if not for my TC issues would be my perfect tank. In my case the prime has more and better TH than the v4 and nearly mirrors the kayfun experience I remember while the v4 started changing to something else for me. I still find the vape to be an overall smoother experience with the prime but not in the same way the v4 was. It's really hard to get an opinion with things like this considering how different everyone builds their coils.

 

[evan le'garde]

For me, the only real thing which makes any difference to thoat hit is Nicotine Content. It needn't be said but the less Nicotine the less throat hit.
I am baffled when talk of "variables" comes into it. When i cannot see any difference at all between one coil and another, apart from having to use a lot more power with thicker wire (what's the point of that i ask myself). More vapour doesn't increase throat hit. A smoke liquid with no Nicotine could illustrate that. I used Drippers, other direct lung devices, but in the end came back to mouth to lung. It's simpler and uses a lot less power.

 

[evan le'garde]

This is another example of how a vape experience can be different for everyone. There are so many variables that seem insignificant but can really impact ones opinion of a device. I own a bunch of russian 91%'s and kayfuns. I also own two v4's and with how I build I was actually getting a softer vape with slightly less TH with the v4. I also find the flavor to be less in the v4 compared to the previous kayfuns. The v4 was part of why I never bothered with the v5. Considering many of us have been vaping for 7 years or more I would say there are plenty of serious vapers here and everyone has good input even if it can be contradictory to your or my experience. With that said I find the vape from the prime to be closer to what I loved about the old kayfuns. The TH for me is much sharper and more defined than the v4 and if not for my TC issues would be my perfect tank. In my case the prime has more and better TH than the v4 and nearly mirrors the kayfun experience I remember while the v4 started changing to something else for me. I still find the vape to be an overall smoother experience with the prime but not in the same way the v4 was. It's really hard to get an opinion with things like this considering how different everyone builds their coils.

In reference to the part i've highlighted do you mean that a specific sized coil works one way in one device yet differently in another ?.

 

[mrcrunch08]

For me, the only real thing which makes any difference to thoat hit is Nicotine Content. It needn't be said but the less Nicotine the less throat hit.
I am baffled when talk of "variables" comes into it. When i cannot see any difference at all between one coil and another, apart from having to use a lot more power with thicker wire (what's the point of that i ask myself). More vapour doesn't increase throat hit. A smoke liquid with no Nicotine could illustrate that. I used Drippers, other direct lung devices, but in the end came back to mouth to lung. It's simpler and uses a lot less power.

So you are trying to say a coil that is almost sitting on the air hole and one that is raised high above vapes the same? Are you also trying to say a 1.5mm coil vapes the same as a 3mm coil? Variables are things like difference in height and position or diameter. You have to remember what a genny is. Obviously that is an exaggerated case but the same rules apply with every atomizer. I am not saying some act of randomness will cause two completely identical coils in identical tanks to perform differently. I am saying even if we both build a 0.5ohm 2.5mm 28awg coil for the prime the vape may and probably will be different. If those variables didn't matter then those of us waiting for a real mtl kayfun wouldn't have been waiting because the v5 would have provided the same vape. We also wouldn't have the issue of juices with very little th or some with heavy th despite having exactly the same amount of nic.
I nearly forgot about airflow. Idk about anyone else but I tend to get less th the more open something is which is another reason I still vape the way I do. I don't even vape my 3.1's all the way open and find the tight draw on the rose nearly perfect. The rose brings up another point. I put the same build in nearly everything and get a different vape in everything. The rose actually goes against what I said above. It has tight airflow yet the th is much less than a kayfun and it's more noticeable than the airflow changes I mentioned.

 

[AstroTurf]

My current Prime build...

28g 2.5mm 12wraps 2.0 ohms

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[evan le'garde]

We also wouldn't have the issue of juices with very little th or some with heavy th despite having exactly the same amount of nic.

I think we are on the same page, if we ignore my ramblings !.

The focus of my previous posts asking about the Prime is the size of the chamber. I think i may have not emphasized that enough. Here is Svoemesto's description.

quote :
"The evaporation chamber has shrunk too, to condense the vapor and give you a rich and flavourful experience, even at lower wattages." End quote.

What i want is a "review" dedicated purely to descibing exactly what the user/vaper experiences after taking a draw or two on the Prime. No focus on flavour (If i wanted more flavour i'd add more flavour to my juice) or anything else such as aesthetics, usability etc. Just how capable the Prime is at providing a throat hit regardless of the build.

It shouldn't matter what build goes in.

 

[vapdivrr]

I am excited about this. I have been waiting for a short version Kayfun for a while now. I love my K5, but it's a bit too long and top heavy on my Radius, so I only vape it at home. The only thing that worries me is the change to the airhole. Unlike most Kayfun fans, I prefer a more airy MTL (hence my love for the K5). How open does the Prime go? As a point of reference, I keep the K5 on its most open setting, and my Siren on the second or third hole (depending on my mood). I think another poster mentioned it felt like a notch below full open on K5....I might be able to adjust to that.....

The k5 without the reducer kit is much more airy then the prime. If you are using the reducer kit in the 5, then they are close...with that said, I find the prime a bit warmer, better flavor, and a better TH

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[vapdivrr]

Here is my take on TH and whether things can be done to increase it besides nic......I had a v4 kayfun but never really liked the looks and parts, so I made a swap with someone for another rta...from what I remember in the couple weeks I had it, is that the prime does equal it in TH..... for me, TH is the biggest thing with flavor slightly behind it. I even need 24 &36 mg nic at 20 to 25 watts to satisfy this TH need....there are certain tanks of mine that don't supply as much TH and imo it's the size of the chamber. It's seems that all my smaller chambered rta's are just better and what even makes it better is the lenght and bore of the chimney tube where it goes up to DT....I find a thin, slightly taller tube the best for TH....this is why I cannot vape a dripper because there is no chimney and the vape just goes straight to DT... there is heat in a dripper, but it's not the same as a small chambered rta imo..... believe me, I have messed with different builds in my 7 years of rebuilding to increase TH with lower nic juices and it just doesn't work....yes you can make miniscule changes by increasing coil height, coil diameter, contact vs spaced, more wattage, lower resistance, but at least for me, those slight changes do nothing to satisfy me like increased nic...maybe for those people that don't like heat and intense TH's, those small changes are more noticeable. One thing that I don't see as one of those changes one can do to increase TH is increasing juice flow. ..If I open my jc , kind of over juicing it, I can notice a bit more TH, but it's more of a harshness as well and it diminishes clouds....

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[crixer]

Evan,

I totally get where you are coming from. I am the same way. I settled on 28g 2.5mm 6wrap 1omish (10.5 watts) builds on all of my kayfuns. I setup my v4 the other day and was getting a pretty decent vape. My favorite atty is still the kayfun lite without air adjustment. Those give me the most satisfying vape. The exhale volume + throat hit and sometimes if I am hydrated enough I get great flavor. I loved smoking and am on day 9 of my latest quit. I had a lot of trouble over the last few years going vape only. I had stopped in 2008 and everything worked great for me with the ce2v4s and the map tanks, then they stopped making that stuff and the carto + tank just wasn't cutting it so I went back to analogs. I just couldn't find juices that I liked. I like the old school taste of just apple or pear artificial flavoring in a 65 or 70vg/30pg mix.

The kayfun 5 seems to have a really soft feel to the vape. I put the restrictor kit in and try to make the draw pretty tight. Sometimes it is a good vape but it isn't that "better than smoking" feeling I get using my kayfun lite or mini v2.1. I wish Svoemesto would make a kayfun lite with the deck and chamber of the mini v2.1. That would be insane. The mini v2.1 doesn't always wick well for me unless I almost close the airflow hole, but man when it is working, it is the best vape I have ever had.

I haven't made up my mind on the prime yet. Sometimes I get that "soft" flavorless vape like the v5 and sometimes I get a satisfying hit with flavor that kinda feels like the older attys. I am going to try out some different builds on it. I really think those "variables" make all the difference and finding the right setup that matches your individual preference is what will make it work for you.

I am a serious vapor trying to stay off the analogs so it is worth it to me to buy any tank Svoemesto puts out to see if it works for me. I don't really have anything else to spend my money on at the moment. My advice is to buy one and play around with the builds since it is so easy to change the coil/wick.

edit: forgot to add, I used to vape 12mg, but had to drop to 6mg because the kayfuns are so good that 12mg is nicotine overdose for me. I was a heavy smoker smoking American Spirits in the black box. The 6mg setup in my pre v5 kayfuns provides a great throat hit.

Hope my opinion helps.
Frank

I think we are on the same page, if we ignore my ramblings !.

The focus of my previous posts asking about the Prime is the size of the chamber. I think i may have not emphasized that enough. Here is Svoemesto's description.

quote :
"The evaporation chamber has shrunk too, to condense the vapor and give you a rich and flavourful experience, even at lower wattages." End quote.

What i want is a "review" dedicated purely to descibing exactly what the user/vaper experiences after taking a draw or two on the Prime. No focus on flavour (If i wanted more flavour i'd add more flavour to my juice) or anything else such as aesthetics, usability etc. Just how capable the Prime is at providing a throat hit regardless of the build.

It shouldn't matter what build goes in.

 

[crixer]

I’ve been vaping the prime next to previous gens as a comparison.

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[evan le'garde]

Here is my take on TH and whether things can be done to increase it besides nic......I had a v4 kayfun but never really liked the looks and parts, so I made a swap with someone for another rta...from what I remember in the couple weeks I had it, is that the prime does equal it in TH..... for me, TH is the biggest thing with flavor slightly behind it. I even need 24 &36 mg nic at 20 to 25 watts to satisfy this TH need....there are certain tanks of mine that don't supply as much TH and imo it's the size of the chamber. It's seems that all my smaller chambered rta's are just better and what even makes it better is the lenght and bore of the chimney tube where it goes up to DT....I find a thin, slightly taller tube the best for TH....this is why I cannot vape a dripper because there is no chimney and the vape just goes straight to DT... there is heat in a dripper, but it's not the same as a small chambered rta imo..... believe me, I have messed with different builds in my 7 years of rebuilding to increase TH with lower nic juices and it just doesn't work....yes you can make miniscule changes by increasing coil height, coil diameter, contact vs spaced, more wattage, lower resistance, but at least for me, those slight changes do nothing to satisfy me like increased nic...maybe for those people that don't like heat and intense TH's, those small changes are more noticeable. One thing that I don't see as one of those changes one can do to increase TH is increasing juice flow. ..If I open my jc , kind of over juicing it, I can notice a bit more TH, but it's more of a harshness as well and it diminishes clouds....

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As i understand it the Prime's evaporation chamber has been resized (made smaller) to allow for a more condensed vapour. I think it's this smaller size which would or could prevent it from volumizing the vapour enough to create the texture needed for a throat hit. And i agree that the chimney also needs to be a certain length in order for this to happen.

From coil to throat i guess the vapour has to volumize to a certain degree. So even if the chamber size is the slightest bit smaller this volumization doesn't or may not occur. This is just a theory though.

 

[vapdivrr]

As i understand it the Prime's evaporation chamber has been resized (made smaller) to allow for a more condensed vapour. I think it's this smaller size which would or could prevent it from volumizing the vapour enough to create the texture needed for a throat hit. And i agree that the chimney also needs to be a certain length in order for this to happen.

From coil to throat i guess the vapour has to volumize to a certain degree. So even if the chamber size is the slightest bit smaller this volumization doesn't or may not occur. This is just a theory though.

I have never heard the term "volumize", but If I'm reading your post correctly, your saying the smaller the chamber, the less a TH would be? If so, I personally think it's opposite. Anything volumnized imo weakens it, except vapor amounts. It's not like the chamber of the prime is anything new, in fact the km3 chamber is about the same size and alot of rta chambers are smaller. It could be other things, but at least with my rtas, I find the smaller ones seem a bit more flavorful and a bit more TH..

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[evan le'garde]

I have never heard the term "volumize", but If I'm reading your post correctly, your saying the smaller the chamber, the less a TH would be? If so, I personally think it's opposite. Anything volumnized imo weakens it, except vapor amounts. It's not like the chamber of the prime is anything new, in fact the km3 chamber is about the same size and alot of rta chambers are smaller. It could be other things, but at least with my rtas, I find the smaller ones seem a bit more flavorful and a bit more TH..

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This is the Svoemesto's description which i had quoted in a previous post.

"With the build deck the evaporation chamber has shrunk too, to condense the vapor and give you a rich and flavourful experience, even at lower wattages". end quote.

I figured if they are playing with chamber size to change the how the vapour is produced then it's going to make a difference to the throat hit too. As you say though it may well be that a smaller chamber would increase Throat hit. Although, pre-release, the same could've been suggested about flavour production.

 

[traianescu]

Also, svoemesto choose a different way for the airflow.. the large air hole under the coil, restricted by the the external airflow control.. is this a better inovation then the traditional way, used by all the other atomizers, with the smaller, rounded hole under the coil?

 

[Nedeljko]

2mm hole and equivalent slot.

 

[vapdivrr]

This is the Svoemesto's description which i had quoted in a previous post.

"With the build deck the evaporation chamber has shrunk too, to condense the vapor and give you a rich and flavourful experience, even at lower wattages". end quote.

I figured if they are playing with chamber size to change the how the vapour is produced then it's going to make a difference to the throat hit too. As you say though it may well be that a smaller chamber would increase Throat hit. Although, pre-release, the same could've been suggested about flavour production.

They are comparing it to the k5, and there is no doubt the build deck and chamber are obviously smaller , which is why I like this kayfun alot better then the k5... I do find and always have found a smaller chambered rta more flavorful and a more intense TH compared to larger ones. Imo an rta that has a bigger chamber and a greater distance from coil to mouth just seem cooler and more watered down. Now a comparison to the km3 in this regard, none really, for the km3 has this same small chamber and over all smaller profile, so imo, flavor and TH on the km3 is the same. This is why you hear that the prime is basically a bit if both of the k5 and km3

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[evan le'garde]

A solution would be to provide an RTA not only with a choice of glass, plastic and stainless steel tanks, but also an additional different sized chamber. Seems to me, if what i'm hearing is accurate, then both small and large chambers are required. Not just for you or me, but to cater for everybody.

I've got a great name for a tank incidentally.

THE THINK TANK.

A name which accurately describes just how much thought went into the development.

Pretty cool i think !.

 

[evan le'garde]

I even need 24 &36 mg nic at 20 to 25 watts to satisfy this TH need....

Do you need your vapour to be hot ?.

I use 29g kanthal / 5 wraps - 2mm id / 1 ohm. I only apply 11.5 watts. It'll never change, not now !. It was only a few months ago i was using 32g but i was getting fed up with how fragile it was. That was the only reason for switching. 29g suits me perfectly, i change out the wick when the tank becomes empty, so most days i have to fiddle with the coil and this 29g stays in shape for months.

I have never got into the habit of mouth to lung vaping at high temperatures.

I'm just wondering now if these high temperatures you are using in any way affect your throat hit and if so is the reason you get a throat hit at all from the Prime !. How big are your coils ?. I would imagine any tank, RTA, dripper which had a lot of power applied would produce a decent throat hit.

So could the Prime produce a throat hit with a coil and power set up in the way i have described using low power ?. Low power being the operative difference !.

The whole reason i use mods is for my prolonged power use. This setup is finally optimized to get maximum use from the batteries.