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LG HD2C 20A 2100mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...a 25A/2200mAh battery, better than the HD2

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Mar 30, 2016.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    These cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Origin Vape (www.originvape.com). To prevent any confusion with the eGo-type "batteries", I use the term "cell" here to refer to a single 18650, 26650, etc.


    Disclaimer
    The statements, conclusions, and recommendations I make based on these tests are only my personal opinion. Carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

    Testing cells at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved and how to minimize them.


    A note regarding current ratings and my testing
    If the cell has only one current rating number on it, or if it says "max discharging current" then I have to assume that the company is stating that the cell can be discharged at that current level in any way, including continuously.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg


    Bottom Line
    This is a great 25A continuous, 2200mAh battery. The HD2C is a better performer than the HD2 due to its higher voltage during discharge and its longer running time. It equals the Aspire 1800mAh's starting pulse voltage and running temperature and runs about 15% longer than the Aspire. The HD2C's voltage drops below the Aspire's in the middle and end of a pulsed discharge though. The HD2C can be pulsed at up to about 50A before its voltage gets uselessly low.


    Why do I rate it above its 20A rating?
    • At 25A continuous it is running at 83°C, the same temperature other LG cells run at when discharged at their continuous current rating.
    • At its rated 15A (continuous) rating the HD2C is only reaches 63°C. This is significantly lower than any battery I have tested at its rating.
    • At 25A continuous it has only lost a bit of capacity, indicating that it is not being stressed beyond its rating.
    • At 25A continuous down to 3.2V it runs a bit longer than the VTC4. Its capacity at 2.8V is about 1900mAh vs the VTC4 at about 1875mAh (at 25A continuous).
    • It runs at a higher voltage and for longer than the 25A HD2.
    • It doesn't show the typical extra voltage sag that indicates the cell is being discharged at beyond its rating until you get up near 35A continuous. It does run much too hot at 35A for that to even be considered as the rating though.
    • Here's the datasheet: http://www.imrbatteries.com/content/lg_18650HD2C.pdf
    Why did LG rate this cell conservatively? I can only guess but it's common to lower a cell's rating to ensure longer cycle life or to keep cell temperature down in a high ambient temperature environment. The vacuum cleaner customer for the HD2C might have requested a longer life cell to help ensure that they would not fail during the life of the appliance.

    To allow for direct comparison of one cell to another I must rate the HD2C the same way I do all the other cells I test. When I did this the HD2C tested out as a solid 25A continuous, 2200mAh cell.


    Continuous-Current Test Results
    image.jpeg


    Pulsed-Current Test Results
    These tests are done to show the performance of the cell at higher pulsed current levels. If you are running your mod at these levels be aware that you risk overheating, and possibly venting of, the battery if there is a malfunction or accidental pressing of your mechanical mod's button.
    image.jpeg image.jpeg


    Comparison between the HD2C and the HD2
    image.png


    Comments
    • At 10A continuous it reached about 2050mAh. This is too high for a 2100mAh-rated cell operating at 10A so I am rating this cell at 2200mAh.
    • At 15A continuous the temperature rose to 63°C. This is significantly below the average temperature for a cell operating at its continuous discharge rating (CDR).
    • At 20A continuous the temperature rose to 74°C. This is a few degrees below the average temperature for a cell operating at its CDR.
    • At 25A continuous the temperature rose to 83°C. This is the upper limit for the average temperature for a cell operating at its CDR, indicating that we're discharging at the cell's rating. It is a very typical temperature for an LG cell.
    • At 30A continuous the temperature rose to 92°C. This is incredibly hot and is too high to set this discharge level as the CDR.
    • At 35A continuous the temperature rose to 101°C. This is just above my safety limit of 100°C.
    • I am setting a CDR of 25A for this cell since at this current level the operating temperature is at the upper limit for the average for a cell operating at its CDR. While operating any cell near its rated maximum current level causes damage to the cell, I would expect good cycle life from this cell at 25A continuous.
    • I have included pulsed discharges but I haven't set pass/fail standards for pulse testing yet. The discharges were done at 5sec on/30sec off, down to 2.5V. One chart shows the entire discharge at each level. The other chart is zoomed in to show the first 5 minutes to make it easier to see the voltage sag at different current levels.
    To see how other cells have tested and how hard you can safely push them, check out these links:
    List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum
    18350 Safety Grades and Pulse Performance Data | E-Cigarette Forum
    18650 Battery Ratings -- Picking a Safe Battery to Vape With | E-Cigarette Forum
    26650 Safety Grades and Pulse Performance Data | E-Cigarette Forum
     
  2. sig-cmt

    sig-cmt Ultra Member

    Sep 28, 2015
    HoustΩn, TX
    Why? Why? Why did you post this after I just picked up four HD2 :(
    Origin Vape: The maximum allowed quantity for LG HD2C 25A 2100mAh 18650 Battery is 4
    Good news...IMRBatteries has it in stock for significantly less :)

    @Mooch: Do you know what changed between the brown HB4 versus the new mustard yellow HB4?
     
  3. DavidAmonettNashville

    DavidAmonettNashville Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2014
    Nashville,Tn
    Wow..an Aspire battery used as a benchmark of sorts. Are these new Aspire batteries that are testing so well coming from the factory that Pbusardo was touring in his recent video?
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED likes this.
  4. sig-cmt

    sig-cmt Ultra Member

    Sep 28, 2015
    HoustΩn, TX
    I noticed that IMRBatteries (along with several other sites) has this cell rated at 20A. What does LG officially list the CDR for this cell at? 20A? 25?
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED likes this.
  5. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Sorry. Just got them in and immediately started testing.
    Great news about IMRBatteries though!

    Not yet but I have the new HB4 in testing now.
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED likes this.
  6. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I believe so, yes. They show the 1800mAh cell being made in the video.
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED likes this.
  7. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I don't know, I can't find a datasheet for the HD2C anywhere so I started with the 25A rating of the HD2. I could be completely wrong though. This cell could be rated anywhere from 5A to 50A, depending on the criteria used, so its manufacturer's rating isn't very important. How it tests against other cells is the best measure of its true rating. But, I may be a bit biased. :)
     
  8. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    Great work as usual Mr Mooch
     
  9. MMW

    MMW Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 8, 2015
    NH
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED and Mooch like this.
  10. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

  11. Strontium

    Strontium Unresolved Status ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2012
    Hurricane State
    It would be very nice to get official manufacturing specs before any tests,and recommendations.
    This is just confusing already confused vapers on this forum.
    This is 15A/20A max battery.
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED and Mooch like this.
  12. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I searched for the data sheet before posting with no luck. Could you post the link to LG's datasheet or tech info document with the 15A/20A rating? Usually it's just one number set by the manufacturer, not a range of values.

    While I feel that it's the battery's actual performance that matters most it would be great to have the datasheet here too. There have been only perhaps a dozen or so batteries out of the 110 or so I have tested that have the manufacturer's specs available. I agree, it is quite confusing.
     
  13. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Found it!
    For some reason Safari doesn't show me the link at IMRBatteries (where I bought them). You are right, it is rated at 20A by LG. My test results don't change but I am updating the test report and the graphics. Thanks!

    image.jpeg

    Here's what was added to the report (in addition to ratings changes being made)...

    Why did I rate the HD2C at 25A?
    • At 25A continuous it is running at 83°C, the same temperature other LG cells run at when discharged at their continuous current rating.
    • At its rated 15A (continuous) rating the HD2C is only reaches 63°C. This is significantly lower than any battery I have tested at its rating.
    • At 25A continuous it has only lost a bit of capacity, indicating that it is not being stressed beyond its rating.
    • At 25A continuous down to 3.2V it runs a bit longer than the VTC4. Its capacity at 2.8V is about 1900mAh vs the VTC4 at about 1875mAh (at 25A continuous).
    • It runs at a higher voltage and for longer than the 25A HD2.
    • It doesn't show the typical extra voltage sag that indicates the cell is being discharged at beyond its rating until you get up near 35A continuous. It does run much too hot at 35A for that to even be considered as the rating though.
    • Here's the datasheet: http://www.imrbatteries.com/content/lg_18650HD2C.pdf

    Why did LG rate this cell conservatively? I can only guess but it's common to lower a cell's rating to ensure longer cycle life or to keep cell temperature down in a high ambient temperature environment. The vacuum cleaner customer for the HD2C might have requested a longer life cell to help ensure that they would not fail during the life of the appliance.

    To allow for direct comparison of one cell to another I must rate the HD2C the same way I do all the other cells I test. When I did this the HD2C tested out as a solid 25A continuous, 2100mAh cell.
     
  14. sig-cmt

    sig-cmt Ultra Member

    Sep 28, 2015
    HoustΩn, TX
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Was wondering when someone would mention that. :)
     
  16. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    That hg6 looks really interesting.

    Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk
     
  17. Strontium

    Strontium Unresolved Status ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2012
    Hurricane State
    HD2C safety temperature maximum limit is 70C,
    I don't understand, why are you telling vapers that hd2c battery is great at 25 amps?
    It is very clear (from your test) that lg hd2c at 25 amps is running 20% above maximum temperature limits (70C max in datasheet).

    Vaper's Safety should be your priority IMHO
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED likes this.
  18. Dextrose

    Dextrose Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Great job @Mooch :) thx for the info as i was looking in to getting a few.
     
    JUDGMENT AFFIRMED and Mooch like this.
  19. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I agree completely. Safety is my highest priority and always will be.

    The 70°C operating temperature limit in the HD2C spec document is not a safety limit. It is a performance limit to not exceed for every continuous discharge to achieve a certain number of cycles before a certain amount of capacity is lost and/or internal resistance is gained. At 25A continuous the HD2C reaches 83°C. This is only about 12% above the 70°C spec, not 20%. Perhaps my math is off?

    In order for a vaper to exceed 70°C they have to vape at over 50A, taking 5 second pulls every 30 seconds until the battery is down to 3.0V or so. I'm not sure any vapers will vape like that at 50A on a single cell down to that low a voltage.

    If the mod autofires or the button is accidentally pressed with a setting or coil that draws 25A continuously the battery will not vent at that low a temperature, 83°C.

    These batteries aren't in any danger of even venting until they are significantly above 100°C, my safety limit. There's no danger of going into thermal runaway until the battery is well above 200°C.

    Each person has to decide what risk level they will take and I will always respect the desire for someone to not exceed a performance limit, much less a safety limit. But I pride myself on my focus on safety and go to great pains to test these batteries and find how hard they can be used and still remain safe. Well, as safe as batteries can be. No battery is inherently safe.
     
  20. Strontium

    Strontium Unresolved Status ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2012
    Hurricane State
    Yes, unfortunately your math is wrong. You are running this battery ~20% over max. temperature limit set by manufacturer.
    There is a reason LG set Operating Temperature (Cell Surface Temperature) or The temperature range over which the battery can be discharged to maximum 70C (I call it safety limit for very good reason).
    They could rate their own product as 25 amp battery, but Operating Temperature (Cell Surface Temperature) is very high (battery gets damaged internally).

    I would never write my feedback on your tests, but once I noticed Aspire 18650 rewrap as one of the best batteries you recommend... - something has to be done (at least here on ECF where not many members know about battery safety).


    BTW there is a reason LG set maximum operating temperature 70 C for LG HD , and 75 C for LG HG.
    5 Degrees Celsius is obviously important to LG, and should be to us too.
     
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