Lithium battery failure = boom (I'm okay)

[RayJ1]

eskimoroll , im glad youre okay
that would have been an unexpected and unpleasant situation to be in
just out of interest could you please give some details on the type of charger you use for your batteries ,average charge time you use and maybe how long you use them before recharging
ive been using unprotected cr ,cr123's and 18650's for quite a long time and am in direct daily contact with 8 other people who use my mods with these batteries as well , i have never given a second thought to the potential for this event to occur but from now on will keep this in mind when making future mods
i do only use chargers with inbuilt overcharge protection cut off circuits but all batteries are just plain unprotected types , they never even get warm when charging even when left in the charger for well over 24hrs
yes i forgot about them usually im much more dilligent about these things
if i ever do a "how to" thread i will include a warning for this situation
thanks for the heads up

If you are using a charger with overcharge protection you are okay on the charging end. Once a peak detection charger shuts the charging down... it usually shuts off or trickle charges. The risk is low here is lowered.

The problem you face is over-discharging the cells during use, and then re-charging them. Once these batteries reach a point where they are under load below there rated low end voltage(2.7 volts or so) ...internal battery cell damage could occur. If there is internal cell damage... such as a short... or cathode or anode damage... even your charger may not pick this up during the charging process. Overcharge could still result. LI-ions are very picky about staying within there prescribed voltage range of usage.(2.7 to 4.2 volts)

I would not use un-protected cells.

 

[youfillintheblank]

*GASP* You forgot to follow my instructions?!?!?!? Oh no....user error.

My mod has no kill switch and I had it in my purse the other day (not sure why...I never do that) and of course the button was pressed and it was on for quite sometime. Long enough to melt the cartridge and smell AWFUL!! It is scary stuff!! I AM using protected batteries though. Thanks to Nico, Sun and Lucky
Glad you weren't hurt, eskimo!

 

[nicowolf]

Thank you RayJ1 for the thorough explanation. I know I have read this information somewhere before but for the life of me can't place where it was. I couldn't even explain it adequately, just understand enough to know that I don't want an un-protected lithium battery.

 

[Oblivionrising]

Good for you and I'm glad you see the light. Also watch for mods that do not have a kill switch, which the SD, Prodigy, GG, Janty Stick and many others do not.

Hey Lucky, do you know which ones do offhand? I was looking into getting a better mod and just string to read the modders forum and this thread REALLY caught my attention.

 

[KoS]

The GG can use a 14500 protected AA at 3.6 V.

Me personaly am very cautious about all my rechargables. I always check with a multi meter before and after charging Always. Even with protected cells. When I got my 14500s out of 6 one of them was only reading mV. Trash right off the batt, dont even try to charge.

Also I am in the works of a fire proff charge box for all my chargers just in case. An ounce of prevention and all that.

For moders: a pcb can be purchaced seperatly for those building lithum packs. These are small and can be incorperated into those mods that have a built in charging port

 

[mre5674]

Hey all,

Thank you for this thread! Did some research on appropriate RCR2's from Deal Xtreme...Though they don't say "Protected", just check out the many pictures users have taken of the batteries...The UltraFire Rechargeable 3V CR2 800mAh Green 2 Packs have a charge and discharge cutoff: 3.6V and 2.0V - thus making them protected. They also have a charger that works at 3V and 3.7V with the flick of a switch. The charger is for CR123's, but with some RE Magnets, it will charge CR2's with no problem. Just purchase two packs of Super Strong Rare-Earth RE Magnets (15mm x 1mm / 10-Pack) and UltraFire 3.0V/3.6V CR123A Charger

Hope this helps!

Best,
Mr.e

 

[nicowolf]

Hey all,

Thank you for this thread! Did some research on appropriate RCR2's from Deal Xtreme...Though they don't say "Protected", just check out the many pictures users have taken of the batteries...The UltraFire Rechargeable 3V CR2 800mAh Green 2 Packs have a charge and discharge cutoff: 3.6V and 2.0V - thus making them protected. They also have a charger that works at 3V and 3.7V with the flick of a switch. The charger is for CR123's, but with some RE Magnets, it will charge CR2's with no problem. Just purchase two packs of Super Strong Rare-Earth RE Magnets (15mm x 1mm / 10-Pack) and UltraFire 3.0V/3.6V CR123A Charger

Hope this helps!

Best,
Mr.e

I do not believe those batteries are actually protected. Here is what is printed on an actual protected battery from the same brand.

DealExtreme: Photo Gallery - Ultrafire 3.6V 880mAh LC 16340 Protected CR123A Battery 2-Pack

Notice the difficulty with the English language and the words "Short-circuit and over-current protection" and the words "Rechargeable Battery with Re/Discharging Protection Circuit". The CR2 does not say it has protection. It says cut-off voltage, but is that manual cut-off (cut it off yourself when it reaches that voltage), or automatic cut-off (it cuts itself off and will not provide ANY power beyond that point)?

 

[AnglVapin]

Not long ago there was a thread about this very thing. It was a very interesting and educational read. I think there was someone who was looking for some type of proof of the danger. If I could find the thread I would link back to this one, but I read so much and am not that forum literate... so I am lucky to even find my way back to my own posts. lol

For all of you guys/gals that warned about unprotected batteries... THANKS!

To the OP... thankfully you are okay! 8-o

 

[RatInDaHat]

just my 2 cents here.

I agree that protected batteries are a good idea. What they won't prevent is a damaged battery exploding. if the cell is damaged from the manufacturer, the protection will be worth very little. On a working cell it should prevent most of these issues.

 

[LuckySevens4U]

Hey Lucky, do you know which ones do offhand? I was looking into getting a better mod and just string to read the modders forum and this thread REALLY caught my attention.

NicoWolf might make you a safe mod, you just have to ask. She makes them with kill switches and advocates using protected batteries. I do believe someday, we will see a company manufacture a safer mod, but I don't see any that are doing it yet.

 

[Fox3]

Not sure about this, but exploding batteries appear to be common. Google "exploding battery" (or batteries).

In the past 6 months here we have had two Duracell 9Vs explode. One in our smoke detector and one just sitting in the battery drawer.

Yep, tis scary, the last one went off 3 times and sounded like a .22. Took me a while to find both of them.

The one in the smoke detector bothered me most as it is in the ceiling and if that had caught fire it would have spread into the attic before I had a clue.

I think we replace all the Duracells with bunny batteries .

 

[kocmat]

OK. Excuse my ignorance but what does a PCB has in common with Li-ion exploding in hands or pocket? PCB protects against discharge or overcharge. What does the PCB do when the batt is in your pocket?

P.S. 18650 is a nice little bomb I agree. But my laptop has 9 of them. Virtually all laptops made in the last years are powered with them. My Canon DSLR has 2 18650s in each "battery" and guess what ... they are all unprotected. It is not needed because the battery pack has one PCB for all cells.
If you read this message than my laptop didn't explode before I hit the "post" button.

P.P.S. Yet this things explode.
Is it a quality/manufacture issue or I am missing something? In other words - why do you advocate using protected cells? I would advocate using high quality chargers.

 

[kocmat]

I got it now. A cell can explode from overdischarging as well. Some googling shows this is the common case. I now advocate protected cells too


I hope my power pack (dxe sku.18883) has nice PCB inside because it does not fit protected cells.

 

[nicowolf]

I got it now. A cell can explode from overdischarging as well. Some googling shows this is the common case. I now advocate protected cells too


I hope my power pack (dxe sku.18883) has nice PCB inside because it does not fit protected cells.

In many batteries, the PCB will also shut the battery down if a short-circuit is detected. That is really a nice feature to have, especially if you are going to tinker with your devices.

 

[jaybird24]

Nicowolf- wasn't there a debate I read about last week here using protected batteries. IMO everyone should use a protected battery as it only makes sense. Thanks, Summer

 

[Icarium]

Anyone have a good source of some reliable CR2s that are protected?

i don't know if any in the following link is equivalent to a cr2 but these flashlight guys are super finicky of batteries on their forum and they swear by these AW batteries [many have laughed about the dealextreme batteries elsewhere on the forum]
AW's LiIon Batteries Sales Thread *Part 9* - CPFMarketPlace

note: they are not cheap but supposedly the best available

i've been debating buying a set with a charger

 

[RayJ1]

Not sure about this, but exploding batteries appear to be common. Google "exploding battery" (or batteries).

In the past 6 months here we have had two Duracell 9Vs explode. One in our smoke detector and one just sitting in the battery drawer.

Yep, tis scary, the last one went off 3 times and sounded like a .22. Took me a while to find both of them.

The one in the smoke detector bothered me most as it is in the ceiling and if that had caught fire it would have spread into the attic before I had a clue.

I think we replace all the Duracells with bunny batteries .

Do you know for a fact that these batteries were actually made by Duracell? I work with vendors and distributors all over the USA. Several of which have offered me deals on "Duracell" batteries and other name brand products. Some of these batteries were in fact copies of the real thing. The copies were identical to the real thing, but not the same internally. I literally couldn't tell the difference from the fake and the real thing. I have heard of some of my customers who bought these things and have them go BOOM! Fortunately for me... I didn't choose to sell them because something on the pricing sounded to good to be true.

 

[500KV]

i don't know if any in the following link is equivalent to a cr2 but these flashlight guys are super finicky of batteries on their forum and they swear by these AW batteries [many have laughed about the dealextreme batteries elsewhere on the forum]
AW's LiIon Batteries Sales Thread *Part 9* - CPFMarketPlace

note: they are not cheap but supposedly the best available

i've been debating buying a set with a charger

Good find Icarium.
Thanks for the info.
ETA: This co. is in Atlanta and it looks like shipping is free.
https://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=53_57

 

[Majestic]

I do not believe those batteries are actually protected. Here is what is printed on an actual protected battery from the same brand.

DealExtreme: Photo Gallery - Ultrafire 3.6V 880mAh LC 16340 Protected CR123A Battery 2-Pack

I maybe wrong, but the impression I got from reviewing batteries on Deal Extreme's web site is that batteries shrink wrapped with a grey label are "unprotected" and the blue shrink wrap ones are "protected." Their English product descriptions definitely need much improvement.

 

[ApOsTle51]

well i have grey wrapped 'protected' cells , and blue wrapped 'un-protected' cells for DX