Looking for Reassurance - VG w/o diacetyl/ etc.

[ethiastery]

Hello ecf,

New here. Mildly hypochondriac former cig smoker. I had some serious health issues that forced me to cut back, and now that I have quit smoking - I've become a LOT more health conscious... probably mostly anxiety from not having nicotine Down from a PAD to chain-vaping 0 nic (YES!) on my Kangertech KBox Mini (got the RBA on there now with some .5 builds I went you Youtube university to learn).

Recently, I've concerned about flavorings and PG/middle-ear problems. I've had surgery done to my Eustachian tubes 3 times... so I'm very weirded out about PG "potentially" causing hearing problems 10-15 years down the line after HEAVY repeated use. Hence... recently, I've been turned onto the thought of using 100%VG. I know the KT kbox mini's RBA is small... so I've probably gotta upgrade - thinking of a flawless tugboat rda...

So after a little research I found "vape organics" - a company claiming to be ORGANIC and using only 100%organic VG. Hmmmmmmmmmm, right?

So I messaged the company with this question:

Message Body:

Are all your flavors DIACETYL, ACETYL PROPIONYL AND ACETOIN FREE?

Here is their response:

Thanks

Hello,


Thank you for reaching out about our ingredients. All of our flavorings are real extracts that are certified organic, natural, and pure and we never use any chemical additives of any kind. Please note that it is not possible to claim to be diacetyl or acetyl propionyl free (in the interest of accuracy), however these substances can be below quantitation level. There is currently no standard as to the safety (and therefore quantitation) level, so companies can choose their own. Some companies use 5PPM, others use 10PPM, and we use only 1PPM. In 6/8 of our flavors, these substances are below our very low quantitation level. However, there are some naturally-occurring trace elements in 2 of our flavors. These flavors, Peanut Brittle and Mango Mystique, have naturally-occurring levels below 5PPM and 10PPM, respectively. Again, these are trace elements of naturally-occurring compounds.

Perhaps you are wondering about this after hearing about the study released from Harvard. Unfortunately, what the study failed to mention is that diacetyl and acetyl propionyl are present in analog cigarettes in quantities that are 100 and 10 times greater, respectively, than those in a sample of e-liquids evaluated by Dr. Farsalinos in an independent study. Still, Vape Organics agrees with Dr. Farsalinos that these compounds should never be added to e-liquids as this practice increases the chances of reaching hazardous levels. We rigorously test our products and abstain from all chemical additives, including diacetyl or acetyl propionyl.

Hope that this answers your questions. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Many thanks

What do y'all make of this?

Here's my idea for the HEALTHIEST vape option for myself and maybe others not into vaping a man-made substance all the time... can anyone reassure me that this is a good idea:

Buy 100% organic VG and then just put a TINY drop of TESTED/CONFIRMED diacetyl/acetoin/ap free juice in there to flavor it a LITTLE?

Also... I'm finding that I'm able to NOT INHALE about 80% of the time... I've really got this 0 nic PV experience down to a placebo (that's the goal right?). I'm really good a blowing rings...and I love just watching, ya know? Couldn't you say that bad flavorings won't even pose any serious health risk IF NOT INHALED? I mean... wouldn't diacetyl be fairly harmless if only exposed to mouth tissue...considering it's in food flavorings and naturally occurring in mangoes? However, now I'm ....ing HOOKED to this PV... as it has helped me switch to vaporization in other regards as well (I smoked the devil's lettuce a LOT... maybe like 5-8 "californian cigs" a day... now I use my Volcano ONLY with my little kbox and I'm loving not dying.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

I LOVE VAPING. Saved my life.

Cheers,
E

 

[sawlight]

The whole diacetyl/popcorn lung was just another overblown scare tactic. They've found higher diacetyl levels in cigarettes, like 100 times higher, than the found in ANY ejuice! It's just more hype to scare people gullible enough to believe it.

 

[ethiastery]

Thanks for the response @sawlight.

So I take it knowing there are trace amounts of this chemical in some juices doesn't bother you?

Just out of curiosity, what flavorings would be the safest/most mild to mix with 100% VG? Menthol? Cinnamon?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

[ethiastery]

Just found this article which pretty much sums up what @sawlight mentioned.

 

[sawlight]

Anything that tastes "buttery" like popcorn is what MIGHT be using it for a sweetener. There isn't going to be anything close to mild with a cinnamon juice! It's going to be in your face! Then you have to wonder if it's going to crack you tank, are you using glass or plastic? Most of the cinnamon juices will crack plastic tanks.
What flavors are you using? What do you like? Then look at the juice suppliers on here, Halo, My Freedom smokes, Heather's and on and on. They are all reputable and make quality juices and are conscience of how they are made.
NO, I'm not at all concerned, considering I can sit at my dinning room table and have all the ingredients right in front of me and make my own juice, I've been to brick and mortars, seen them make juice right in front of me, I know what's in it. But I've no idea what was put in the thousands of cigarettes I smoked! What about the carpet glue they use to make them fire safe, you think that's good for you? The arsenic, carbon monoxide etc., that we put in our bodies daily while sucking them down didn't bother you?
I apologize for seeming curt, but with you being an admitted hypochondriac, it seems as if you are looking for a reason NOT to vape. I've heard the horror stories of formaldehyde, diacetyl and so many others, I'm numb to it anymore. I know of many tests done, on very good equipment, and the results were nothing.

 

[ethiastery]

Anything that tastes "buttery" like popcorn is what MIGHT be using it for a sweetener. There isn't going to be anything close to mild with a cinnamon juice! It's going to be in your face! Then you have to wonder if it's going to crack you tank, are you using glass or plastic? Most of the cinnamon juices will crack plastic tanks.
What flavors are you using? What do you like? Then look at the juice suppliers on here, Halo, My Freedom smokes, Heather's and on and on. They are all reputable and make quality juices and are conscience of how they are made.
NO, I'm not at all concerned, considering I can sit at my dinning room table and have all the ingredients right in front of me and make my own juice, I've been to brick and mortars, seen them make juice right in front of me, I know what's in it. But I've no idea what was put in the thousands of cigarettes I smoked! What about the carpet glue they use to make them fire safe, you think that's good for you? The arsenic, carbon monoxide etc., that we put in our bodies daily while sucking them down didn't bother you?
I apologize for seeming curt, but with you being an admitted hypochondriac, it seems as if you are looking for a reason NOT to vape. I've heard the horror stories of formaldehyde, diacetyl and so many others, I'm numb to it anymore. I know of many tests done, on very good equipment, and the results were nothing.

I agree with everything you've said hah. The hypochondriac thing is new with me man... I used to smoke a LOT and drink a fifth a day for 7 years. Didn't give a ..... Now I got stuff to live for... I care more...

 

[sawlight]

I agree with everything you've said hah. The hypochondriac thing is new with me man... I used to smoke a LOT and drink a fifth a day for 7 years. Didn't give a ..... Now I got stuff to live for... I care more...

I hear you, just everyone is up in arms with this FDA fiasco and I'm so over it! So I'm a bit short on certain subjects! I again apologize.
I'm still trying to kick the smokes and drink close to your standards, still. Trying to get off the cigs, again, but I'll be damned if you ever take my bottle away!
It's good you are changing your ways, just have to make sure you don't swing too far the other way! I tried detoxification once, nothing but water, fruit juices, fruits and vegetables for a week. I made it five days and about passed out trying to mow the yard! I needed protein!
Then take all the vaping fear stories with a grain of salt as well. Just as you found out earlier, a little digging and you can dispute them. Educate yourself carefully, then research, then ask questions. Lots of knowledgeable and helpful people on here.

 

[StormFinch]

To give you some perspective, all natural butter, straight from the cow, contains diacetyl. If you're worried, don't do anything buttery or cream based. Use cinnamon only sparingly as it's a known irritant. Mints/menthols and fruit flavors are probably about the safest I believe.

 

[ethiastery]

@sawlight Hey thanks so much for the response/support. Just in case anyone comes across this post and has had similar thoughts - I've spent the whole day researching this and everything @sawlight suggests is true. This isn't an issue for people who are switching from smoking... I just think it's cool some brands are labeling their stuff D/ap/acetoin free - so if we wanna be sure this chemical isn't even in our PG/VG blends we can control that now.

 

[sawlight]

No problem, glad to help.

 

[ethiastery]

To give you some perspective, all natural butter, straight from the cow, contains diacetyl. If you're worried, don't do anything buttery or cream based. Use cinnamon only sparingly as it's a known irritant. Mints/menthols and fruit flavors are probably about the safest I believe.

Thanks! I'll stick to fruits and menthol for my VG. Cheers

 

[salemgold]

What you vape is a personal decision. I do want to leave some info here for you though.
Media Bias Exposed: ‘Popcorn Lung’ Chemical 750 Times Greater In Tobacco Vs. E-Cigarettes

We really don't know that organic is safer than synthetic for inhalation. My opinion is that it may not be.
How Natural is'Natural Flavoring'?

"Artificial flavorings are simpler in composition and potentially safer because only safety-tested components are utilized. Another difference between natural and artificial flavorings is cost. The search for "natural" sources of chemicals often requires that a manufacturer go to great lengths to obtain a given chemical…. Furthermore, the process is costly. This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemist’s laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. Consumers pay a lot for natural flavorings. But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.”

This is just my opinion and I wish you much luck in forming yours

 

[Telmos]

Thanks for the response @sawlight.

So I take it knowing there are trace amounts of this chemical in some juices doesn't bother you?

Just out of curiosity, what flavorings would be the safest/most mild to mix with 100% VG? Menthol? Cinnamon?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

I am have a close experience to yours. Except I quit smoking over 5 years ago and just started to vape a month ago. So anything more than fresh air seems dangerous to me, even if its 95% safer than smoking. Been very health conscious so also researching everything i could do to be safe with my new hobby.

For one, I was going to do I want to do all VG (I don't remember why I disliked PG, maybe because it synthetic) with 5% flavor. I wanted to get organic VG as well until I realized the only organic VG is made from Soy, so I decided that non-organic Palm VG is better than Organic GMO. Second, the flavors seem to be the most dangerous part so I am trying to research which may be best. I think Extracts are better than just Flavorings because they are derived from real products as opposed to engineered with artificial ingredients. Finally, I'm trying to learn not to inhale as it just seems more natural to do so for me when I breathe in.

According to my research Menthol and Cinnamon are actually the most dangerous flavors to vape, so I would stay away from those. You can see it in this video and my comments below:

Which we knew which of the cinnamon components is the culprit:

• Cinnamaldehyde <(E)->
• Cinnamyl alcohol
• 1,6-Octadien-3-ol, 3,7-dimethyl-
• Eugenol
• Cinnamyl acetate <(E)->
• Limonene

Source: Perfumer's Apprentice

If I had to guess, I would think it's just the flavors that contain Menthol, and most mint flavors do contain it (Except Spearmint ).

• Menthol Liquid
  
• Spearmint Flavor
• Slim Mint Cookie Flavor
• Mint Candy
• Peppermint Flavor

Obviously, different manufacturers will have different components (and not everyone is that friendly to share what they are), but I am assuming the only adding the Menthol plant component is able to reproduce the minty flavor.