Lorillard purchases Blu E-Cigs

[kristin]

Are any of u planning on buying any pv hardware or liquids from a company that has previously tried to knowingly kill us?????

How on earth could we ever trust that they would sell us the best that is available?

Do you still buy products from the automobile industry? Did you know the automobile industry knew that seat belts and air bags would save lives, yet fought having them be mandatory in cars? Or they knew for 30 years about the problem of spontaneous acceleration, yet covered it up and continues to deny it?

Do you still buy medications - both prescription and over the counter? Yet everyone has heard of the myriad of denials and cover ups made over the years by Big Pharma - Chantix, Avandia, Paxil - were all killing people and BP lied, denied and hide the facts. Still, people do not claim BP knowing tried to kill people.

The denials and cover up of "Big tobacco" were no different or worse than any of those perpetrated by other industries, yet they are still vilified while other companies get a free pass time and again. The fact is, while smoking is highly dangerous, it doesn't kill every user or even most users; there are more people today who have quit smoking than smoke and anyone who has ever smoked cannot pretend that they didn't feel the negative effects of smoking on their body and believed it was still good for them or perfectly safe. Those tobacco executives who participated in that cover up and denial are long gone. It's a well-known fact that smoking can be bad for you and has been since the 1950's, but so are a lot of other things that are sold to people today. It's fully informed, personal choice now whether or not to take the risk and has been for some time. It was well known in the 1980's when I made the choice to start smoking - whether the tobacco companies admitted it was addictive or not. The tobacco companies weren't knowingly "trying to kill" me, because I shouldn't have started smoking in the first place.

We need to stop demonizing an entire industry because of the unethical actions of a few of it's executives 30 years ago or because they sell a product that carries high health risks that people continue to CHOOSE to start using, in spite of the warnings. The tobacco industry also developed and sells many products that DON'T carry the same health risks as smoking - no more risky than coffee - yet they don't get any forgiveness for the cigarette cover-up of the 1980's. It's ridiculous when you really think about it.

Oh man, I hope you are wrong about this!!!

If this happens, the FDA will be back in the middle of things, and in a very big way. Nothing good can come from that.

If BP gets into e-cigarettes, they will have to start proving e-cigarettes THEY sell are safe and effective as smoking cessation devices. E-cigarettes sold as tobacco products not claiming to be smoking cessation devices will not be held to the same standards, IMO. However, they would ultimately benefit from BP proving that e-cigarettes are reasonably safe.

I don't see why they would have to buy blu to be competitive. I don't know anyone who is still vaping blu that started with Blu. I bet Johnson Creek knew this was coming as they're developing an ecig of their own.

Go to the blu Facebook page and you'll see how many fans they have. It's not a bad device compared to a lot of other minis out there and there are thousands of vapers who are perfectly happy with it. Only the ones who aren't come to forums like ECF and complain. But there are a lot of people who don't like some of the most popular non-mini devices too - like the eGo - and move into mods. ECF discussions do not reflect the entire vaping community at all - just a portion of it.

 

[VapApe]

Is the glass haft full or haft empty? Interesting question isn't it?
I just hope they use this site to do their marketing research.
If they get it right they can do very well. If not they just flushed 135 million down the toilet.

 

[Petrodus]

Needless to say ...
Most of us who have been around for a while, are not vaping a
low power - high priced - analog look-a-like with low nic/neutral flavor.

The old thread on another forum ... If they banned ecigs, would you stockpile?
comes to mind. They won't ban e-cigs but they will eventually ban Your e-cig
and Your favorite e-juice and there's little to nothing we can do about it.

George Carlin was right all along

 

[Petrodus]

Oh, by the way ...
I'm sure BT is thrilled to get into a business where there is a built-in
large, expanding, enthusiastic, word of mouth free sales force.

 

[RockinRay]

Now the question becomes, will they be "smart" with their purchase and marketing plan... If so, and if they do not re-introduce all of the "nasty" things that are in the good old analogs, they could have something here.

I would not mind purchasing supplies from them as long as I know they are not trying to kill me like the normal smokes will. I also would be concerned about pricing and the fact that it might go up. I guess it depends on how much the government wants to step in on this and how much "pocket padding" BT is willing to pay to make this work.

It will be very interesting to watch this develope for sure. I am all for knowing exactly what is in the juice that I vape. After reading here there still seems to be a little "gray" area in that regard.

 

[kristin]

Because of the general mistrust of tobacco companies, Lorillard has to know it will be under extreme scrutiny - something other e-cigarette companies haven't had to deal with...yet. If anything, Lorillard will be motivated to produce the cleanest, safest e-liquid possible because of that scrutiny - and they'll probably promote that fact. (From my understanding, the deal with Johnson Creek is not going to end anytime soon anyhow.) Additionally, unlike with tobacco - which has thousands of NATURAL ingredients within which to hide the toxic additives people believe are added to cigarettes - it would be very difficult to add toxic chemicals to something that basically has only 3 or 4 "generally regarded as safe" ingredients without being discovered.

As far as prices, Lorillard has the ability to make much larger purchases and negotiate prices with manufacturers - which will help them compete and keep prices low. I'm sure they are well aware that the high costs of regular cigarettes, a lot due to taxation, is partly why people quit smoking or switch to e-cigarettes and keeping the cost low is a strong selling point. It also gives them incentive to fight unjustified sin taxes on e-cigarettes - something that will benefit the industry as a whole.

The whole point of e-cigarettes for most people are low health risks and low price. It would be counter-productive for Lorillard to buy into the industry and remove those two greater incentives. It would be like large food company buying a popular and successful organic health food company and changing all of the ingredients to be non-organic and full of preservatives, fat and sugar. Why would anyone buy their product then?? It just wouldn't make sense.

 

[RockinRay]

Because of the general mistrust of tobacco companies, Lorillard has to know it will be under extreme scrutiny - something other e-cigarette companies haven't had to deal with...yet. If anything, Lorillard will be motivated to produce the cleanest, safest e-liquid possible because of that scrutiny - and they'll probably promote that fact. (From my understanding, the deal with Johnson Creek is not going to end anytime soon anyhow.) Additionally, unlike with tobacco - which has thousands of NATURAL ingredients within which to hide the toxic additives people believe are added to cigarettes - it would be very difficult to add toxic chemicals to something that basically has only 3 or 4 "generally regarded as safe" ingredients without being discovered.

As far as prices, Lorillard has the ability to make much larger purchases and negotiate prices with manufacturers - which will help them compete and keep prices low. I'm sure they are well aware that the high costs of regular cigarettes, a lot due to taxation, is partly why people quit smoking or switch to e-cigarettes and keeping the cost low is a strong selling point. It also gives them incentive to fight unjustified sin taxes on e-cigarettes - something that will benefit the industry as a whole.

The whole point of e-cigarettes for most people are low health risks and low price. It would be counter-productive for Lorillard to buy into the industry and remove those two greater incentives. It would be like large food company buying an organic health food company and changing all of the ingredients to be non-organic and full of preservatives, fat and sugar. Why would anyone buy their product then?? It just wouldn't make sense.

VERY well stated indeed!

 

[Randyrtx]

Just adding to what Kristin said, the FDA would jump on any opportunity to validate their previous e-cig "toxic ingredients" claims. I just can't see Lorillard taking that risk.

 

[trepalium]

How weird would it be if they came out with an e-cig branded as newports? I welcome this. Companies buy smaller companies all the time to skip the R&D process. Nothing more. I personally feel that e cigs are the future. In 20 years I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of places that sell analogs sell mainly e-cigs and barely sell analogs(vice versa from today). Marlboro KR808 cartos stocked behind the counter. Camel e-juice next to them. A Newport starter kit next to that.

Just like people who roll their own cigarettes the e-cig community as it is now will make their own juice and fill their own cartos.

I welcome this as I feel it's a move that will help to push e-cigs further and further into the main stream. This will also put a fire under the FDA to study extensively and regulate. This is key as most negativity around e-cigs is the horror stories of exploded batteries and the unknowns about the product. Regulation means a safer product. I'm 100% for it.

 

[IronHorse]

Do you still buy products from the automobile industry? Did you know the automobile industry knew that seat belts and air bags would save lives, yet fought having them be mandatory in cars? Or they knew for 30 years about the problem of spontaneous acceleration, yet covered it up and continues to deny it?

Do you still buy medications - both prescription and over the counter? Yet everyone has heard of the myriad of denials and cover ups made over the years by Big Pharma - Chantix, Avandia, Paxil - were all killing people and BP lied, denied and hide the facts. Still, people do not claim BP knowing tried to kill people.

The denials and cover up of "Big Tobacco" were no different or worse than any of those perpetrated by other industries, yet they are still vilified while other companies get a free pass time and again. The fact is, while smoking is highly dangerous, it doesn't kill every user or even most users; there are more people today who have quit smoking than smoke and anyone who has ever smoked cannot pretend that they didn't feel the negative effects of smoking on their body and believed it was still good for them or perfectly safe. Those tobacco executives who participated in that cover up and denial are long gone. It's a well-known fact that smoking can be bad for you and has been since the 1950's, but so are a lot of other things that are sold to people today. It's fully informed, personal choice now whether or not to take the risk and has been for some time. It was well known in the 1980's when I made the choice to start smoking - whether the tobacco companies admitted it was addictive or not. The tobacco companies weren't knowingly "trying to kill" me, because I shouldn't have started smoking in the first place.

We need to stop demonizing an entire industry because of the unethical actions of a few of it's executives 30 years ago or because they sell a product that carries high health risks that people continue to CHOOSE to start using, in spite of the warnings. The tobacco industry also developed and sells many products that DON'T carry the same health risks as smoking - no more risky than coffee - yet they don't get any forgiveness for the cigarette cover-up of the 1980's. It's ridiculous when you really think about it.



If BP gets into e-cigarettes, they will have to start proving e-cigarettes THEY sell are safe and effective as smoking cessation devices. E-cigarettes sold as tobacco products not claiming to be smoking cessation devices will not be held to the same standards, IMO. However, they would ultimately benefit from BP proving that e-cigarettes are reasonably safe.


Go to the blu Facebook page and you'll see how many fans they have. It's not a bad device compared to a lot of other minis out there and there are thousands of vapers who are perfectly happy with it. Only the ones who aren't come to forums like ECF and complain. But there are a lot of people who don't like some of the most popular non-mini devices too - like the eGo - and move into mods. ECF discussions do not reflect the entire vaping community at all - just a portion of it.

Kristin..was nice to see you pop into Blu's FB page to help educate folks there who are bashing Blu for their business decision to partner with Lorillard. Keep up the great work!!

 

[kristin]

Kristin..was nice to see you pop into Blu's FB page to help educate folks there who are bashing Blu for their business decision to partner with Lorillard. Keep up the great work!!

Thanks - I plagiarized most of my post from here, but it seemed fitting. LOL

Like I told Russ there - so many vapers don't yet realize how they have been manipulated and lied to by the anti-tobacco lobby as much as, if not more than, the tobacco industry. I'm not sure how people can see all of the lies they tell about e-cigarettes now and not wonder what other lies they were told about tobacco. Smokers have been so demonized and hated by the ANTZ that it has resulted in smoker's guilt and self-loathing. That makes it easier to hate the tobacco companies and is exactly what the ANTZ wanted. Yet the total demonization of the industry and tobacco has resulted in millions of people continuing to smoke, rather than switching to or starting with reduced harm alternatives. That isn't the fault of the tobacco industry, but of the anti-tobacco groups that are supposedly looking out for public health.

Makes you think - who is worse?

 

[sqirl1]

The problem with this I see is that this is going to get E-cigarettes even higher up on the FDA's to do list because ANTZ in congress are going to throw a hissy fit about them even more.

 

[IronHorse]

Thanks - I plagiarized most of my post from here, but it seemed fitting. LOL

Like I told Russ there - so many vapers don't yet realize how they have been manipulated and lied to by the anti-tobacco lobby as much as, if not more than, the tobacco industry. I'm not sure how people can see all of the lies they tell about e-cigarettes now and not wonder what other lies they were told about tobacco. Smokers have been so demonized and hated by the ANTZ that it has resulted in smoker's guilt and self-loathing. That makes it easier to hate the tobacco companies and is exactly what the ANTZ wanted. Yet the total demonization of the industry and tobacco has resulted in millions of people continuing to smoke, rather than switching to or starting with reduced harm alternatives. That isn't the fault of the tobacco industry, but of the anti-tobacco groups that are supposedly looking out for public health.

Makes you think - who is worse?

Indeed it does...I have always advocated for Blu since I started pv adventures through them..and have tried to educate others through what I have learned here..as well as educating the public. The nastiest comments I have received were on Blu's page from fellow vapers bashing me and calling me a kiss-@$$ and various other things for applauding Blu's decision and for trying to explain that it would be a positive move for the e-cig/pv industry as a whole.

 

[kristin]

Well...it could go either way, but I'm hoping not. There is the risk that Lorillard will try to negotiate with the FDA (like Philip Morris did with the FSPTCA), resulting in regulations that could essentially wipe out anything other than a blu-style device, pre-filled cartos and tobacco flavors and acquiesce sin taxes and public use bans. I can guess that CASAA would NOT support that! I hope they truly understand how vapers are a different breed - we won't go quietly into the night like we did as smokers. Lorillard needs to understand that they have a really great market with the starter vapers and don't need to destroy the cottage companies that specialize in the upgrade devices and boutique liquids. They will see a lot of consumer backlash if they attempt to move against those types of products and I will be out front leading the charge if I have to!

 

[IronHorse]

I'll help!!!

 

[Petrodus]

The problem with this I see is that this is going to get E-cigarettes even higher up on the FDA's to do list because ANTZ in congress are going to throw a hissy fit about them even more.

No, tell me its not true...
Our country is bankrupt and we have members of congress
throwing hissy fits about e-cigarettes??

Call to Action - Email Lorillard
Lobby those elected officials ... write it off as a business expense


EDIT:
For those who might wish to contact those elected officials direct
E-cigarettes is not the problem
This is the problem CLICK HERE

 

[Bill Godshall]

I strongly suspect Lorillard insisted upon a long term patent settlement between blu and Dragonite as a condition of its acquisition of blu, and Lorillard lawyers may have even drafted the terms of blu's settlement with Dragonite.

Patent issues are the key reason why other tobacco manufacturers have not yet began manufacturing or marketing e-cigarettes, as tobacco companies don't market any products (and don't acquire any companies) until intellectual property rights are resolved.

Since Lorillard has more lawyers, lobbyists, regulatory staff and researchers than any e-cigarette company, its acquisition of blu could provide additional benefits for the rest of the e-cigarette industry (in opposing e-cigarette sales bans, usage bans and taxation). But Lorillard will continue looking out for its own self interests, which may confict with the interests of many e-cigarette consumers and other e-cigarette companies on various legislative and regulatory issues.

Since Newport accounts for 90% of Lorillard's sales, and since a large percentage of Newport customers are black, Lorillard's acquisition of blu may encourage more black smokers to switch to e-cigarettes.

 

[BuzzKill]

Oh man Opinions are like .......s everyone has one , this is a interesting thread for sure !!!! , the small guy have to adapt or go out of business, Lorrilard does NOT control the universe YES they have a ton of $$$ but if you are smart you can stay in business and be profitable .

 

[Petrodus]

Oh man Opinions are like .......s everyone has one , this is a interesting thread for sure !!!! , the small guy have to adapt or go out of business, Lorrilard does NOT control the universe YES they have a ton of $$$ but if you are smart you can stay in business and be profitable.

I'm sure there are some vendors that would click to buy that "how-to" book

 

[BuzzKill]

I'm sure there are some vendors that would click to buy that "how-to" book

OK this really is the DEATH of the Ecig business so close shop NOW !