FDA Lost

[Cullin Kin]

I hate to post another thread on this stuff, but seeing threads about the vapocalypse on the daily has really started to get in my head. If the FDA Regulations include taxes that make e-liquid completely unaffordable for the average person, or non-existent and only sold in closed-systems like those sold in gas stations, I want to be prepared. Is this truly the possible future though?

To the point of this thread, do you guys think it is necessary/worth it to stock up on nicotine? I vape really low levels (1.5mg/mL) and MyFreedomSmokes has a great deal for 1L of 100 mg/mL ($50), so this would hypothetically last me 18.265 years vaping 10mL/day at 1.5mg/mL.

But is it really necessary? Are you stocking up? Just trying to get some guidance. Thank you!

 

[Nermal]

Good question, Cullin. I sometimes find myself wondering if there will be a time when DEA treats it the same as some other controlled substances. How much might be considered as enough for a charge of possession with intent to distribute? I have a small stash, but I wouldn't stretch the current budget for more than I might use in six or maybe twelve months.

 

[pennysmalls]

My thinking is that by stocking up I'll be all set if the deeming regulations do mean nic will be hard or impossible to get or the cost of juice gets insanely high and if it turns out to be something we worried about for nothing I'll still be using that nic anyway. I have a freezer with enough room though, I know some people don't have the space to store nic.

 

[Mogar]

I generally take it at 6 mg and have 1/2L right now. If I hear that nationally or even if my state will impose a tax we will usually have 3-6 months before it goes into effect. I will stock up myself and freeze it for future use. However if this happens a very large number of people will do the same and you will see everyone out of stock very quickly.
I have discussed this with a number of other DYI in my area and will probably make a large bulk purchase and split it.

 

[B2L]

Unfortunately that is a possible outcome of the current deeming regulation. I have stocked up and am not worried (for myself) about access to nic in that event (barring door to door search and seizure raids, which I find highly unlikely).

I hate that it has the potential to bar current smokers from access to the one thing that was able to allow me to stop smoking, that is the crime in all this regulation.

If you do decide to stock up, do it before any regulations are passed. Once that happens you will see stock dry up and prices skyrocket immediately. I've seen that a couple of times already to some degree when DR deadlines have approached.

 

[vapero]

i believe that if the FDA does cripple the vaping industry and choke the nicotine, a year later when the smoking statistics reflect that by increasing the number of teen smokers for the first time in a while they WILL HAVE to reconsider and allow the market to grow again

 

[Grimwald]

Nicotine is just the tip of the iceberg (but certainly a choke point). I have about 12 years in the freezer: more if my wife leaves me. The only question is how long it will remain potent as there are no long term studies on this. (none that I'm aware of)

Kanthal wire, reliable devices (toppers and mods), these could be as vital. As long as batteries are available, you should be good to go.

All that being said, these vapocalypse scares have come and gone several times in my vaping career, but I'm finally ready.

 

[AndriaD]

Yep, I'm stockpiling too; got about 3 1/2 yrs in the freezer so far, at my current level of 10mg/ml; if I drop my nic level at any point, then that 3 1/2 yrs' worth becomes even more; and planning to get another 6 mos' worth on Friday; then another 6 mos' worth next payday, etc etc etc until it's no longer available.

I really don't give a crap if they say it's illegal; I firmly believe in Civil Disobedience -- we not only have a right to disobey a stupid law, we have the *responsibility* to do so! The "authorities" have no way of knowing what's in my freezer, nor is it any of their business.

If it turns out to be unnecessary, then I won't need to buy nicotine for a while. But if they do NOTHING elsee, they're bound the raise the price on nicotine; it's a natural solution for the greedy so-and-so's who've counted their chickens too early and spent money they didn't yet have, and now never will have.

Andria

 

[Bill Godshall]

Cullin wrote:
I hate to post another thread on this stuff, but seeing threads about the vapocalypse on the daily has really started to get in my head. If the FDA Regulations include taxes that make e-liquid completely unaffordable for the average person, or non-existent and only sold in closed-systems like those sold in gas stations, I want to be prepared. Is this truly the possible future though?

For the nth time, the FDA has no legal authority to tax tobacco products or e-cigarettes.

But the FDA's proposed Deeming Regulation is far worse, as it would ban the manufacturing and sale of ALL e-cigarettes (including ALL e-liquid) 24 months after the Final Rule (for the Deeming Regulation) is issued. While the FDA may approve several PreMarket Tobacco Applications (PMTAs) for cigalike e-cigs sold by Big Tobacco companies before they ban all other e-cigarettes, the FDA will NOT even accept a PMTA from an e-liquid company (because the agency will cite "insufficient information" since the PMTA won't include tests or studies on how the e-liquid interacts with all of the thousands of different vaporizer products currently on the market.

So stockpiling of e-liquid will increasingly occur during the next 30 months (as it could take about 6 months before the Final Rule for the Deeming Regulation is issued by the FDA), and stockpiling of e-liquid will skyrocket during the 6 months before FDA's e-cigarette prohibition day in late 2017 or early 2018.

That's why everyone should contact their US Representative (i.e. Congressman) urging them to become a cosponsor of HR 2058 cited at:
Rep Tom Cole introduces bill (HR 2058) to change SE date from 2007 to 2015 for newly deemed products | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Cullin Kin]

Thank you for the responses everyone! I tried to let it not get to me, but you know how groupthink works...

I think I will pick up that L just in case. It can't hurt.

Bill, I saw that bill the other day! That would be great. I'll get on that right away.

 

[Ann]

I have been stocking up for years. I have about 6 or 7 liters of 100mg nic in the freezer. I make my own coils and have stocked up on wire and devices. I have been mixing my own juice for years. I have dreaded the upcoming regulations for a long time.
I just would like to know how it will be if we can't order off the internet. I have even written venders phone numbers down to call them if I have to place an order that way. Hopefully they will still be around. I forgot to add that I have 5 gallons of VG,lol.

 

[WillyZee]

IMO, better to have and not need ... than need and not have

only you can decide if it is necessary/worth it to stock up on nicotine?

I buy nicotine base because I don't like having to buy ejuice ... and that's before taxes take over the vape industry.

i believe that if the FDA does cripple the vaping industry and choke the nicotine, a year later when the smoking statistics reflect that by increasing the number of teen smokers for the first time in a while they WILL HAVE to reconsider and allow the market to grow again

they will fudge the #s if that happens

 

[caramel]

i believe that if the FDA does cripple the vaping industry and choke the nicotine, a year later when the smoking statistics reflect that by increasing the number of teen smokers for the first time in a while they WILL HAVE to reconsider and allow the market to grow again

They will spin it as being the delayed effect of the previous years of gateway-to-smoking Ecigs use.

 

[Kent C]

When gov't can't ban or tax whole products it will usually target key components. In the gun industry, primers are a target. Without primers, one would have to go back to black powder weapons for self-defense - not at bad idea to have at least one of those. Blasting caps for any explosives are another. Logic has been dropped from education where the focus is on 'feelings'. Carbon footprint is another. For ecigs, nic base is the most rational target. I'm sure people who have expertise in other areas could find similar 'key components' in their areas that either are or could be targeted.

 

[caramel]

Alternatively they can make the product nearly impossible to use/enjoy through restricting the time and places when/ where it can be used, plus ridiculous/expensive storage/maintenance rules.

So you'd better spend your money on other products on which they have a better taxation grip.

 

[SeniorBoy]

But is it really necessary? Are you stocking up? Just trying to get some guidance. Thank you!

Cullin,

YES!

/joke /lol / Andria made me due it /lol /joke

Seriously, I have always subscribed to "Better Safe Than Sorry" See my sig article link if you are so inclined. IMHO, you should strive to be "self sufficient" and take a series of steps to stash all the necessary supplies to continue vaping for the duration of your life.

HTH

 

[AndriaD]

Cullin,

YES!

View attachment 456969
/joke /lol / Andria made me due it /lol /joke

Seriously, I have always subscribed to "Better Safe Than Sorry" See my sig article link if you are so inclined. IMHO, you should strive to be "self sufficient" and take a series of steps to stash all the necessary supplies to continue vaping for the duration of your life.

HTH

I had nuttin to do with it!

Seriously, if I had a freezer big enough for a 55gal drum, that's what I'd have too. But my husband requires actual food, not being a vaper, so we gotta keep SOME food in the freezer too.

Andria

 

[Cullin Kin]

lol you guys... Even better, MyFreedomSmoke sells a 2.5L bottle of 99.7% pure freebase nicotine (997mg/mL) for only $700.00.

 

[AndriaD]

lol you guys... Even better, MyFreedomSmoke sells a 2.5L bottle of 99.7% pure freebase nicotine (997mg/mL) for only $700.00.

Good lord, I hope the DHS doesn't hear about that.

Andria

 

[Rossum]

lol you guys... Even better, MyFreedomSmoke sells a 2.5L bottle of 99.7% pure freebase nicotine (997mg/mL) for only $700.00.

Sure, but you can't just order it. You have to become an "approved wholesale customer" first by filling out a "Product Rights and Release of Liability Waiver".

But it sure would go a long way toward mitigating any storage space issues.