Malty Toffee in a genesis

[carcen5]

i have been using genesis rba with mesh wick and various coil configurations for about 4-5 months. My ADV for a long time has been both Malty and Malty Toffee. The strange thing is, i can not get the tasted i'm "used" to with malty toffee, it's there but faint and no where near as good when dripped. Malty, on the other hand, is awesome in the genesis...almost better than when dripped. All my other BWB juices taste spot on as well
Is there anyone that uses genesis type RBAs and has had a similar experience? Maybe not with MT but a juice they're familiar with. Any help would be much appreciated!!

 

[vapspaz]

Hmmm.... That's odd. I've never put MT in my Genny's with SS mesh before, but now you got me curious. LOL I do know that any set-up with SS mesh is going to have a "sharper" taste than with silica or ceramic wicks. I wonder if this might cause the flavor of MT to drop off like that. Hmmm..

It's hard to describe but the "sharper" taste (as I call it) caused by SS mesh I have noticed seems to give me more taste of flavors on the sides of my tongue. This is the sour tasty buddy area where as the sweet is in the front.

The only other thing I could think of is that MT does have a tendency to gunk of coils quickly which suggest there are sugars in there that get caramelized. Perhaps sweeter juices don't like Genny SS mesh set-ups I guess.


Now I gotta try some MT in one of my Gennies one of these days to see if I notice a change. LOL

 

[carcen5]

first off, thank you for help!! And i agree with everything about the "sharpness" of the SS wicks and what it does to the flavor profile. At first I assumed it was because it is a sweeter juice, but then after trying Malty(i know it's a different sweetener), which knocked my socks off, i started scratching my head again as to what is going on with this MT. And other sweet juices seem to taste great, but then again they're not as subtle as MT.

i have noticed this...MT famous for gunking coils, will almost have full gunk the coil about have way through 3mm tank; Malty no where near as much. and at low wattage, MT will boil more so than other liquids.
so maybe it's just not vaporizing the toffee flavor and leaving the taste...well flat is the only way i can describe it. i just got new bottle cleaned out 357, dripped it in there...bam there was MT, filled genesis and it is just not the same, good but not what i'm used to.

if you do get around to trying it, i'd love hear your results

 

[carcen5]

Ok after your very helpful description of "sharpness" and diagram, I tasked MT in a freshly clean/coiled(it was past time) genesis and then a 357 atty, paying close attention to my tastebud sensation and where it was being stimulated...

Man, you were dead on. Now I'm not saying the difference is that big but its just not the MT I've been dripping fo so long.

But what gets me is that I've put many sweet juices in gennies and found the flavor to be spot on, I guess MT is just one of those that doesn't shine like most do in a genesis...of course YMMV and your free to call me crazy!

 

[vapspaz]

carcen - I was thinking about this last night. If you have a VV try maybe dropping the power a little. Maybe it's getting to much heat to quickly.
I know that doesn't make much sense being that others like Malty are working for you but I thought I'd toss that one out there. Still need to try it myself.

 

[carcen5]

I am using it on Provari/cobra. Right now coil is 1.3ohm 30awg kanthal(flavor/vapor have been stellar with this setup). And I did notice on first genesis a .1 volt change can make a big difference. At moment it's full of malty and I stay between 3.4-3.7v but experiment up to 4v.

It's just strange after I read your first post I paid close attention to taste sensation when comparing and it was just as you described. Again, I'm not saying its bad at all, and if you get around to trying it/notice a difference you might like the change...and if you feel as though there's no difference, again feel free to call my crazy!

BTW...what flavor do you vape in your gennies? Just curious. Oh and again, thanks for the help, definitely appreciated

 

[vapspaz]

You're welcome. Glad I could be of any help.

Wow! I didn't realize your set-up was that low. Your set-up is you described is running just under 9w to 10.5w. You are running these way hotter than what ever would. I have found that generally sweeter juices like to be at or below 8 watts, usually between 5-7. With tobacco's I have found I like them around 8 watts. Keep in mind that this is only my opinion on the BWB flavors I vape.
I still don't know how these ultra low Ω folks think they are actually "vaping" juice at 15-20w. That ain't vapor they are inhaling. LOL

This might be the culprit of your missing flavor. I know with some juices if you go to high the flavor drops off and shortly beyond that you start burning them. I would think at your 4v (12.3w) you'd have to be burning the juice. What did you think of it when you cranked it up like that?

As far as my current set-ups and brews,
I have my D20 set-up with ceramic wick with some "special" BWB brew in it on my full sized Provari V1 right now. As soon as the tank is empty I'll switch over to O-Julius or some other sweet brew like MT or Cheesecake.
My little all day mini D14 & mini Provari V2 is set-up with a SS wick and all I ever vape in it is Casa. It's been my 24/7/365 brew of choice for over 2 years now. LOL
My current coil on this SS wick is a 4/5 32ga Kanthal @ 2.5Ω running at 4.0v. I need to remove a wrap on this set-up. I forget how the hell I have the Ceramic set-up. LOL It's been a while since I've had to mess with it.

I have other miscellaneous set-ups floating around with different brews in them but those are not gennies.

 

[carcen5]

I have tried the SLR on a mech...meh, it's not the "zen-relaxation" feeling I like from vaping. But I never had much luck with 32awg and cobra, wick hole is small so to get to ~2 ohms ends up 5/6 or more and becomes unresponsive(side note why do some people describe coil turns this way and others 6/5?...not big deal but I'm curious kinda person).

When I first got MT years ago(when u had to stalk site for it!) I emailed Don and asked his recommendation on how to vape MT and some others I purchased. He told me he used a mech(prodigy if memory serves me correctly and a LR 306, for everything. So in all honesty while i agree with ur suggested watts bout sweet juices, baccos, etc. the main reason I was trying to stay in that 9-10 watt range was taking Don's word to the letter! And that's bout where I enjoyed most flavor on my attys.

I will definitely take your advice and take it a few watts down, also have another rba on way with bigger wick hole so I can get to those 4/5 wraps with 32k and get 2.5 ohms.

Oh and by no means do I vape that 1.3ohm at 4V, if only to see how it changes flavor. Please don't mistake me for one of those "inhalers"!! the general consensus over in the cobra forums for best flavor/vapor/Provari is 30awg at 4/5. And it doesn't have any effect on cheesecake(I really like that one)

 

[vapspaz]

Ok carcen, Just for you I went ahead and made a new coil over the weekend. I made it out of 30ga kanthal and did a 4/5 wrap to give me 1.5Ω. I cleaned my SS wick and filled her up with a couple of tank fulls of MT on my mini DiD D14. Flavor sucked bad with anything at or above 3.5v. I kept stepping it down until the flavor was as close as I could get it. I think I ended up at 3.2 or 3.3 before there just wasn't any warmth to it. I still got plenty of vapor but the flavor was a little faint compared to other wick types I've used. I have no idea why this is but I found the same as you did. It wasn't a bad vape, just a little faint.


So there you are. You have officially been declared mentally sound by da spaz.

 

[carcen5]

Thanks spaz ur the best! I was dripping MT last night and just thinking, wow this is so different, prob enjoying it most in the 6-7 watt range. Your right not a bad vape, just faint and if MT has been in your life for long time, then you know something is not there.
And not to suggest you try something else...but the craziest thing is that Malty taste better than ever. I put that in my 357 and thought, where's all the flavor? I do prefer subtle flavors that don't attack my tastebuds.
Seems pretty clear that different flavors(perhaps even flavor brands) vaporize at a different temperatures, so I wonder what's up with MT. My next wick, just for a laugh, I'm going to wrap silica inside the mesh, perhaps MT reaction with silica has something to do with it.

Whew...can't say the insanity is official just yet, but I'm very glad to know that someone else had same experience. And thanks again for going thru trouble of new build just to try it out! I guess curiosity got the better of u? Because every other liquid taste spot on in a genesis.

 

[poobear]

What would be a good flavor to mix with malty, I want to get another order in before they are gone.

 

[vapspaz]

Seems pretty clear that different flavors(perhaps even flavor brands) vaporize at a different temperatures, so I wonder what's up with MT. I guess curiosity got the better of u? Because every other liquid taste spot on in a genesis.

You're welcome and it wasn't any trouble. I needed to build another coil anyhow and my Casa is a happy camper with this latest 30ga 1.5Ω coil.

We'll just mark this one up as the 8th wonder of the world, do a flying chest bump and call it a day.

What would be a good flavor to mix with malty, I want to get another order in before they are gone.

I personally don't mix my brews but many others do, especially with Malty. From what I've heard Malty will mix well with almost any brew that you want a little more sweetness out of. Just don't mix it with Casa. I learned a long time ago the hard way that Casa does not play well with others at all. LOL

 

[poobear]

Ya, I got that in my first order, order 3 waffle, but got 2 and that one, not sure on the taste I have not open it to taste it. Put in a ticket on this order, just waiting on there respond.

 

[carcen5]

Yeah Malty will mix well with anything, although i find that the result gives the new juice body and depth...almost like every juice should have this. I used to treat malty this way, now it's gold on its own. If spaz says don't mix with Casa, I'd take his word for it, seems like he's gone thru his fair share of it. Casa also being one those juices that doesn't need any help.

Spaz, glad your liking the 30ga 1.5, I really like it as far as response time and wire-wick coverage. And it actually made me appreciate Provari all over again. There's advantages at all ends of its voltage range!
Unfortunately I cannot let this MT thing go to rest!! I must find out what's going on here and I think I am close to having a plausible explanation, and hopefully solution

 

[EddieAdams]

My$0.02 is that I've noticed MT doesn't like high heat. I vape it at lower watts on my set up than other liquids. If I don't it caramelizes and the wick after a certain amount of puffs gets a burnt taste. Using a vamo/ ProTank. Never thought of throwing it in my aga-t2.

Preferred coil in ProTank is 30g split 6 wrap standard toothpick using 1mm silica which I thread through after making the coil. 3 pieces of 1mm through and 3 over for the flavor wicks. With other liquids I vape at 8-10w, with MT I stick around 7w.... On top of the eventual burning seems to lose its nuances at higher watts...

 

[carcen5]

My$0.02 is that I've noticed MT doesn't like high heat. I vape it at lower watts on my set up than other liquids. If I don't it caramelizes and the wick after a certain amount of puffs gets a burnt taste. Using a vamo/ ProTank. Never thought of throwing it in my aga-t2.

Preferred coil in ProTank is 30g split 6 wrap standard toothpick using 1mm silica which I thread through after making the coil. 3 pieces of 1mm through and 3 over for the flavor wicks. With other liquids I vape at 8-10w, with MT I stick around 7w.... On top of the eventual burning seems to lose its nuances at higher watts...

thanks EddieAdams for your input as you have pointed out something i've noticed on RBA wick...the top of the wick caramelizes after a tank(3ml), the bottom of the wick that is being directly hit from the airhole stays pretty clean when compared to the top. The airflow is not "even" across the coil like a 510 atty. I've tried many a different wire gauge, coil wraps, wattage adjustments...and to this moment I've gotten close to what I'm used to with dripping, but still not quite the same. If you ever decide to throw MT in your aga, I'd be interested in your results.

 

[EddieAdams]

thanks EddieAdams for your input as you have pointed out something i've noticed on RBA wick...the top of the wick caramelizes after a tank(3ml), the bottom of the wick that is being directly hit from the airhole stays pretty clean when compared to the top. The airflow is not "even" across the coil like a 510 atty. I've tried many a different wire gauge, coil wraps, wattage adjustments...and to this moment I've gotten close to what I'm used to with dripping, but still not quite the same. If you ever decide to throw MT in your aga, I'd be interested in your results.

With my gennys I tend to steer clear of anything the crusts or caramelizes easy. That's all jc tobaccos, house blend,cc coffee, and just about anything dark in color and sweet.
Happens to be one of my favorite things about bwb and a majority of their liquids. I'm a casa fiend. You pretty much can't burn the stuff.
It's catch 22 imo with ss wick and sweet liquid. You need a hot coil to really make a ss wick do its thing but, this doesn't react well with sweet and dark liquid.. you get the crust halfway through a tank...

The equal or next best thing imo is a ProTank rewicked like I described..I actually dropped down to 6w with that coil and wick and its tasting just like it should imo without any burning issues...

 

[carcen5]

Thanks Eddie, very well put and in all honesty, only reason have been beating my head about it, every other liquid I have will taste almost "the same" as when it's dripped(even a straight caramel, dark liquid). And being that MT has been an ADV, it just baffles me that it is such a difference. But now I think about it, MT is so subtle, it taste different in ANYthink other than dripped(obvious this just my opinion). But if get my hands on pro-tank I will definitely give your suggestion a try.
And besides, I'm perfectly happy with Malty is genesis. So thank u for the feedback, always appreciated

 

[EddieAdams]

Maybe try a higher ohm coil and see what happens.. can't hurt..

 

[carcen5]

I tried a 6/7 wrap 32ga K, came in at ~2.7Ohms. The only thing I can think of, Spaz is right the mesh wick just stimulates different parts of tastebuds, and also the observations u've added compound the lack of flavors

For next attempt, I'm going try mesh with NiCh R wire coiled in a tight space, as I'm fairly confident cisco atties use this wire, perhaps it's the only coil/wick combo I haven't given a fair shake. With NiCh response time, should be able to get ohms up there too