Max VG, Smooth as silk or Harsh on throat?

[eMado]

Hi there,

I make unflavored juice with MaxVG 3mg nic. And my nic is PG based.
According to calculator now I have:
94% VG + 6%PG + Nic

But result is much harsher on my throat than previous commercial juice that I used with 6mg nicotine! So I vape VG without nic and yeah it was harsh too (but less).

I thought when using just VG I will get a smooth silky vapor! Am I wrong?
Or there is something wrong with my VG?

I uploaded my VG analyse sheet in previous post before and my nicotine is from NicSelect.
This is the analysis, Willmar is my VG:

 

[dangkhoa02106]

As i know, when making e-juice, the producer will use flavor, sweetener and ethyl maltol. Ethyl maltol will improve the flavor a lot.
Try to reduce the percentage of VG in your juice and use the stainless steel coil. I used to use unflavor juice with kanthal wire (max VG like yours) but the smell is horrible so I must used flavor.
By the way, maybe the nicotine juice is the main problem. Did you use software or which way did you use to calculate your target strength nicotine?
One more thing, do you know exactly the strength of your nicotine base?

 

[eMado]

As i know, when making e-juice, the producer will use flavor, sweetener and ethyl maltol. Ethyl maltol will improve the flavor a lot.
Try to reduce the percentage of VG in your juice and use the stainless steel coil. I used to use unflavor juice with kanthal wire (max VG like yours) but the smell is horrible so I must used flavor.
By the way, maybe the nicotine juice is the main problem. Did you use software or which way did you use to calculate your target strength nicotine?
One more thing, do you know exactly the strength of your nicotine base?

Flavor wasn't bad at all, but it was harsh on my throat.
Like I said, I vape VG without nic and yeah it was harsh too (but less).
My Nic base is 48mg/PG. and I use e-liquid-recipes calculator.

 

[anavidfan]

I always order my nic in a VG base. Once I bought a bottle in PG and it was so much harsher. SO harsh and odd tasting that I had to dump everything I made.

Now maybe it was a coincidence and I just happened to either get a batch of nic that was mislabeled and was stronger or it had gone bad? Or maybe PG just made it seem stronger?

Since then I always order my nic in an all VG base and its smooth as always.

Have you always ordered your nic in an all PG base before?

 

[eMado]

I always order my nic in a VG base. Once I bought a bottle in PG and it was so much harsher. SO harsh and odd tasting that I had to dump everything I made.

Now maybe it was a coincidence and I just happened to either get a batch of nic that was mislabeled and was stronger or it had gone bad? Or maybe PG just made it seem stronger?

Since then I always order my nic in an all VG base and its smooth as always.

Have you always ordered your nic in an all PG base before?

It's my first time that I make my own juice, never try before.
And my problem is that even my pure VG (without any nic, 100% pure) is harsh on throat, not very annoying but it's harsh.
I thought I will get a smooth silky vapor with pure VG. Am I wrong? Or there is something wrong with my VG?

 

[anavidfan]

That is odd, because VG is smoother. If I were you, Id order another small bottle of VG from another vendor. I always use one from Essential Depot. They sell at their site and I always order from Amazon for the free shipping.

Could be that the VG you got was not good ? Is it really , really thick and sweet when you taste a drop with your finger?

 

[eMado]

That is odd, because VG is smoother. If I were you, Id order another small bottle of VG from another vendor. I always use one from Essential Depot. They sell at their site and I always order from Amazon for the free shipping.

Could be that the VG you got was not good ? Is it really , really thick and sweet when you taste a drop with your finger?

It's thick and sweet, clear and colorless. So do you think it's odd to be harsh on vape?

 

[anavidfan]

Its odd, but there is nothing to say that its a not maybe a bad batch or that you might be allergic to VG.

Thats why If I were you Id buy a small bottle of PG and VG ( another brand ) try them by themselves and see how it feels on your throat. If neither bother you, ( remember PG is got a bite to it, but if it doesnt hurt its fine) then try them each of them with the nic base to try and figure out if its a sensitivity to either or if neither bother you then you know it was a bad batch of the original VG.

If both dont bother you, then it might be the nic base, could be old, could be mis-labled , possibly higher nic than supposed to be. Not everyone is the same and you could be sensitive.

Did you say you tried the VG and nic base without flavor? If you did have flavor in it, it could even be the flavor. Only way to find out is to try the ingredients and figure out what it is.

Oh, you have not mentioned what gear you are using, what resistance, did you build it yourself? COuld even be that you have a bad coil, or built too high or a slight short. Did you prime your wick enough? Could be dry hits due to your device not saturating your wick enough.

 

[eMado]

Its odd, but there is nothing to say that its a not maybe a bad batch or that you might be allergic to VG.

Thats why If I were you Id buy a small bottle of PG and VG ( another brand ) try them by themselves and see how it feels on your throat. If neither bother you, ( remember PG is got a bite to it, but if it doesnt hurt its fine) then try them each of them with the nic base to try and figure out if its a sensitivity to either or if neither bother you then you know it was a bad batch of the original VG.

If both dont bother you, then it might be the nic base, could be old, could be mis-labled , possibly higher nic than supposed to be. Not everyone is the same and you could be sensitive.

Did you say you tried the VG and nic base without flavor? If you did have flavor in it, it could even be the flavor. Only way to find out is to try the ingredients and figure out what it is.

Oh, you have not mentioned what gear you are using, what resistance, did you build it yourself? COuld even be that you have a bad coil, or built too high or a slight short. Did you prime your wick enough? Could be dry hits due to your device not saturating your wick enough.

Yeah I must try another brand to see the result.
My devices are fine one BBB and another Vaporesso Guardian one, both with prebuild coil head, 0.12 ohm on BBB and Ceramic 0.5 Ohm on Vaporesso. Same result on both tank.

 

[IDJoel]

@eMado, You give a good description of the e-liquid you have made, but you say nothing about the equipment you are vaping it on:
What atomizer (tank, or dripper? model name, manufacture) are you using?

What is the coil set-up (single, dual, wrap-your-own, factory-made coil head, what kind of wire, what is the resistance)?

What are you using for wicking?

What is the airflow like (tight draw more suitable for mouth to lung (MtL), or airy and better for direct to lung (DtL))?

What wattage are you vaping at?

Is 94%VG the highest you have ever used in this devise? Are you getting adequate juice flow? A "starved" wick can create some nasty harshness, without the awful taste, and burnt wicks, that comes with full-on dry hits.

Is any part of the hardware you are using, new, or unfamiliar, to you; especially since you started using this new DIY mix? Are you using a new tank or dripper? Are you using new/different coils? Have you just started to build and/or wick your own coils? Are you using a new/different power supply?

There are other factors that can contribute to a harsher vape, other than just nicotine, PG, VG, and flavor concentrates. You have ruled out the nic (and the PG; since your only source it the nic base), by identifying the harshness remains in the VG even when vaped alone; and you are mixing unflavored, so flavor concentrates are not even in the discussion. That (to me) leaves, either the VG (which is rather unusual; though not impossible), or some sort of a hardware influence. I am merely trying to brainstorm here; I hope you will forgive me asking 10,000 questions.

 

[eMado]

@eMado, You give a good description of the e-liquid you have made, but you say nothing about the equipment you are vaping it on:
What atomizer (tank, or dripper? model name, manufacture) are you using?

What is the coil set-up (single, dual, wrap-your-own, factory-made coil head, what kind of wire, what is the resistance)?

What are you using for wicking?

What is the airflow like (tight draw more suitable for mouth to lung (MtL), or airy and better for direct to lung (DtL))?

What wattage are you vaping at?

Is 94%VG the highest you have ever used in this devise? Are you getting adequate juice flow? A "starved" wick can create some nasty harshness, without the awful taste, and burnt wicks, that comes with full-on dry hits.

Is any part of the hardware you are using, new, or unfamiliar, to you; especially since you started using this new DIY mix? Are you using a new tank or dripper? Are you using new/different coils? Have you just started to build and/or wick your own coils? Are you using a new/different power supply?

There are other factors that can contribute to a harsher vape, other than just nicotine, PG, VG, and flavor concentrates. You have ruled out the nic (and the PG; since your only source it the nic base), by identifying the harshness remains in the VG even when vaped alone; and you are mixing unflavored, so flavor concentrates are not even in the discussion. That (to me) leaves, either the VG (which is rather unusual; though not impossible), or some sort of a hardware influence. I am merely trying to brainstorm here; I hope you will forgive me asking 10,000 questions.

Thanks for your attention
My devices are not new. These are my setup:

Big Baby Beast + dual core 0.12 Ohm (Factory made)
Checked on every airflow volume
Reuleaux RX2/3 - Checked on 30 - 45 Watt

Vaporesso Guardian One + CCELL GD 0.6 Ohm (Ceramic coil)
Checked on every airflow volume
Not a VW/VV device, 40Watt

Highest VG I used before was 80% with commercial ejuice

 

[IDJoel]

Highest VG I used before was 80% with commercial ejuice

I have not used the new generation, high performance, factory coil heads; so I can't speak from any experience, or authority. But, from what you have shared about your mix, and now your equipment; the only non-e-liquid cause I could see is the mix is simply too thick.

So as not to waste your valuable nic; you might try taking only your VG (since it is giving you the same throat irritation as the nic mix), and dilute it with either water, or PG (if you have it by itself).

If you have the PG, I would start it at your 20P/80V ratio, since you know that was flowing fine when you were using your store-bought e-liquids. I wouldn't make a lot; 2-5mL ought to be plenty to test the flow against any noticeable irritation. If that is okay; then try the same thing at 15%P/85%V, then 10%P/90%V, and finally 5%P/95%V (which should be a squeaker thicker than your DIY base). If the harshness is absent at the thinner ratios, but returns at the thicker, then the wick is beginning to starve, and you will have an idea of what that tank's/coil's max VG is.

If you don't have PG, or if you are trying to eliminate as much PG as you can from your mix; you could also try thinning with distilled water(DW). I have only played briefly with DW, and the results were marginal for my purposes (I was trying to create a "moister" vape), so I quickly abandoned it. But, for your purpose of thinning, there are many who use it successfully. I will offer one word of caution: start with low percentages. Too much will cause an unpleasant popping and spitting because the water boils at a lower temp that the rest of the ingredients in e-liquid. 3-10% seems to be what I read most often.

I would start at 3%(DW) and work up from there; either until the harshness goes away, or until you reach that popping/spitting point. If it goes away, then like the PG test, you know it was a wicking problem. Also like the PG experiment, I would keep the quantities small (2-5mL; whatever keeps measuring easy), as you only need enough for you to fully saturate your wick, and the have 10-20 puffs to see if it is irritating to you.

If none of that gets rid of the harshness, then I would have to conclude that it is most likely your VG, and it is time to try another source.

 

[eMado]

I have not used the new generation, high performance, factory coil heads; so I can't speak from any experience, or authority. But, from what you have shared about your mix, and now your equipment; the only non-e-liquid cause I could see is the mix is simply too thick.

So as not to waste your valuable nic; you might try taking only your VG (since it is giving you the same throat irritation as the nic mix), and dilute it with either water, or PG (if you have it by itself).

If you have the PG, I would start it at your 20P/80V ratio, since you know that was flowing fine when you were using your store-bought e-liquids. I wouldn't make a lot; 2-5mL ought to be plenty to test the flow against any noticeable irritation. If that is okay; then try the same thing at 15%P/85%V, then 10%P/90%V, and finally 5%P/95%V (which should be a squeaker thicker than your DIY base). If the harshness is absent at the thinner ratios, but returns at the thicker, then the wick is beginning to starve, and you will have an idea of what that tank's/coil's max VG is.

If you don't have PG, or if you are trying to eliminate as much PG as you can from your mix; you could also try thinning with distilled water(DW). I have only played briefly with DW, and the results were marginal for my purposes (I was trying to create a "moister" vape), so I quickly abandoned it. But, for your purpose of thinning, there are many who use it successfully. I will offer one word of caution: start with low percentages. Too much will cause an unpleasant popping and spitting because the water boils at a lower temp that the rest of the ingredients in e-liquid. 3-10% seems to be what I read most often.

I would start at 3%(DW) and work up from there; either until the harshness goes away, or until you reach that popping/spitting point. If it goes away, then like the PG test, you know it was a wicking problem. Also like the PG experiment, I would keep the quantities small (2-5mL; whatever keeps measuring easy), as you only need enough for you to fully saturate your wick, and the have 10-20 puffs to see if it is irritating to you.

If none of that gets rid of the harshness, then I would have to conclude that it is most likely your VG, and it is time to try another source.

Wow, Thanks man,
That's very precise and very helpful. Thanks for your time.
I don't have PG but I have medical DW right now. I'm going to test it right now.
Your post need more than one like from me

 

[IDJoel]

Wow, Thanks man,
That's very precise and very helpful. Thanks for your time.
I don't have PG but I have medical DW right now. I'm going to test it right now.
Your post need more than one like from me

Thanks for the kind words!

If the medical DW is/was expensive, I would be stingy with it. I don't know what you have in the way of local availability, but most of us in the U.S., are content to use readily available, common, cheap, grocery store DW. The only reason that I know of for using distilled water over, say tap, or other bottled water, is to avoid additions like chlorine, fluoride, and minerals, that are added for taste, and serve no benefit to vaping.

Good luck; and let us know what your results are!

 

[Hitmetwice]

The Nicselect nic. does have a harshness to it that other nics. may not have. It may be still in the coil when you tried straight VG. The VG you are using is USP grade, correct? With the "best before" date a couple years out, right?

 

[eMado]

Problem solved.
I did what IDJoel recommend with DW but harshness was still there.
I assume by now that problem is with VG.
I ordered 2 bottle of VG. Now I open second bottle and it is fine! no harshness at all...
Same company, same product and same exp. date!

I called distributor and ask them why is it different and they apologize and say that some product is mislabeled and my fist bottle must be one of them. Water content in those bottle is higher than analysis they send me. those were meant to use for beauty products as they said.
Thanks you all for helping.

 

[eMado]

The Nicselect nic. does have a harshness to it that other nics. may not have. It may be still in the coil when you tried straight VG. The VG you are using is USP grade, correct? With the "best before" date a couple years out, right?

Thanks, problem with VG solved but as you mentioned my nic. (NicSelect) is harsh anyway. What brand do you suggest?
Or do you now how I can reduce harshness from it without adding flavor?

 

[IDJoel]

Problem solved.

Glad you got it figured out!

I called distributor and ask them why is it different and they apologize and say that some product is mislabeled and my fist bottle must be one of them. Water content in those bottle is higher than analysis they send me. those were meant to use for beauty products as they said.

That is more than a little unsettling! I know the Middle East has different regulations, than we do here in the U.S., but I would be looking for a more dependable supplier, if I were able.

Or do you now how I can reduce harshness from it without adding flavor?

Now that you have some acceptable VG, that should help to calm your nic down, especially at max VG, and only using 6mg/mL nic. Barring that, there is not a whole lot you can do, other than lowering the amount you use (at least; that I am aware of).

 

[Verb]

You could add an acid and turn it into nic salts to reduce the harshness. Hopefully, someone can chime in with the type, concentration, and amount to add.

 

[IDJoel]

I'm not sure how I feel about suggesting kitchen chemistry to someone just starting out with DIY. Even professional Chemists, like Kurt, still have questions about nic salts in general, and DIYing nic salts in particular. Part of the problem, is that outside of the lab, it becomes rather difficult to accurately measure actual results. But, the OP is certainly welcome to do his own research, and decide for himself.