FDA MBV says FDA has bottle size restriction?

[squee]

Saw this on reddit:

Mt.Baker Vapor no longer sell bottles bigger than 30ML due to FDA regulations

Just got an order in for a 250ML bottle yesterday, but from today forwards this is what a CSR just told me


"Unfortunately, with the new regulations that the FDA is going to pass here shortly, retail stores both online and in shops will not be able to sell bottles larger than 30 ml, as they will be considered bulk and will only be able to be sold as wholesale products"

First I've heard of such a thing. So this question is - is MBV confused? Or am I?

 

[Iron Molly]

This is the first I've heard of any restriction on bottle size. Interested to hear what part of the regs they are referring to here. I haven't seen any definition in the FDA deeming of what is considered bulk/wholesale and what is considered retail as far as liquid is concerned.

 

[FishingBuffalo]

I have read the regs, have not seen specifically a bottle size recommendation, but MBV could be simplifying things as the number of PMTA's seem to grow the more options you have to offer. They have offered tons of options for their customers. I could also see FDA misinterpreting their own writings.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

Or... this could simply be their solution to charging more per milliliter by not giving a discount for those buying in bulk.

Blame it on the FDA. Perfect timing.

 

[Lessifer]

I haven't seen anything in the FDA regs regarding bottle sizes. I'd chalk this up to a customer service rep misunderstanding a business decision. It might be an effect of the regs, i.e. only going to sell 30ml bottles to reduce the number of SKUs, or those are the bottles with CRP that meet the standards, or bulk bottles were filled by hand and the new manufacturing process doesn't accommodate them, or...

I expect many vendors to make some business decisions over the next couple years that people won't like.

 

[retired1]

Easy way to find out. Go ask 'em directly in their supplier thread.

Mt Baker Vapor - Beginner Starter Kits, Intermediate Starter Kits, Mechanical Mods, USA Nicotine E-Juice and Friendly Customer Service.

 

[YoursTruli]

MBV responded

"Our customer service agent unfortunately misspoke. This has nothing to do with an FDA size restriction. I already posted this in a different thread, but I am copying for the sake of time:

The change in bottle sizes has to do with the release of our pre-steeped blue label bottles. The full announcement is here.

The run-down is this: The move to blue labels starts with these first 24 flavors. The move means that these flavors will no longer have flavor shots and that they will no longer be offered in larger bottle sizes (we do, however, have deep discounts for bulk purchases). However, these bottles are pre-steeped for superior flavor, batched for optimal consistency, feature shrink wrapping and child proof packaging, and offer the same great Mt Baker Vapor value. We believe that when you take all of this into account, it is a net positive for our customers.

We understand that this is a drastic change. But it is something that we must do to prepare for FDA regulations. Right now, we offer a gigantic amount of SKUs. By simplifying the amount we have, it allows us to prepare for the coming flavor application process.

As for our flavors other than these 24, they will all be moving to the new blue label packaging on Friday, August 5th. This will coincide with our largest sale of all time: 25% off all Baker Vapor e liquid, GWAR Fluids, and a brand new line of juice we will be releasing on the 25th. This sale will last from Friday until Sunday.

We hope that everyone understands that while we wish we could provide every customer with exactly what they want, changes need to be made due to the regulatory environment. We are committed to doing everything possible to continue providing our e liquid to our loyal customers for years to come."

 

[Lessifer]

The days of made to order custom liquid are over. I'm actually surprised that they still offer six nic levels in four pg/vg ratios. I'm glad they're making preparations to stick around.

 

[Ed_C]

Or... this could simply be their solution to charging more per milliliter by not giving a discount for those buying in bulk.

Blame it on the FDA. Perfect timing.

They have a bulk rate for 5 or 10, 30ml bottles. This represents a somewhat higher price, but still a great price as far as I'm concerned.

236ml - 34.99 or 0.15 per ml (What I used to pay for Hawk Sauce)

30ml - 7.99 or 0.27 per ml

150ml - 29.99 or 0.20 per ml (5 - 30ml bottles)

300ml - 49.99 or 0.17 per ml (10 - 30ml bottles)

*Rounded to the nearest penny

 

[NC_Fog]

My wife lovers their Spearmint. I just ordered 236ml of 24mg/ml with 4 flavor shots to which i will make a total of 930ml of 6mg/ml juice. That will hold her for quite a while. That will give me plenty of time to learn to make her a good Spearmint or either slowly convert her to an unflavored user such as myself.

 

[King_Louie]

This almost gave me a heart attack reading the title, if all i could buy were 30mls i would be very sad

 

[gnees]

From the MBV news letter.......

Starting August 4th, Mt Baker Vapor will no longer be carrying DIY supplies. This includes unflavored e liquid, straight flavoring, and our Build Your Own Juice option. Keep in mind that the switch to Blue Label bottles will also remove our 236mL (8oz) bottles as well. This is in preparation for the August 8th deeming FDA regulations and stringent rules that will be placed upon the vaping industry. We will continue to do everything in our power to fight these new laws for a better, smoke free future. But Mt Baker Vapor can't do it alone. So please, if these new changes upset you, reach-out to your local representative and voice your concern and don't forget to checkout theCASAA and Right 2 Be Smoke Free websites for more information on ways to help out.

 

[skoony]

From the MBV news letter.......

Starting August 4th, Mt Baker Vapor will no longer be carrying DIY supplies. This includes unflavored e liquid, straight flavoring, and our Build Your Own Juice option. Keep in mind that the switch to Blue Label bottles will also remove our 236mL (8oz) bottles as well. This is in preparation for the August 8th deeming FDA regulations and stringent rules that will be placed upon the vaping industry. We will continue to do everything in our power to fight these new laws for a better, smoke free future. But Mt Baker Vapor can't do it alone. So please, if these new changes upset you, reach-out to your local representative and voice your concern and don't forget to checkout theCASAA and Right 2 Be Smoke Free websites for more information on ways to help out.

This is just speculation on my part. It seems MB is anticipating restrictions on DIY supplies. If this comes about IMHO this creates a conundrum of sorts.

Under current regulations one can grow tobacco for current use with no restrictions or regulations for personal use. The FDA will be hard pressed to restrict DIY for e-liquids while allowing DIY for tobacco users. The FDA is saying for all intents and purposes every thing is a tobacco product. Whats the reason then for treating the products differently? This is fast becoming a nightmare. I have noticed that there seem's to be no progress concerning the lawsuit's or at least a lack of urgency to put at least a temporary halt to sort out these obvious contradictions.

Regards
Mike

 

[Nermal]

Uh oh. The only liquids I ever bought from MBV was the 36mg/ml in unflavored. Fortunately, I believe I already have enough. That's not for DIY. That just happens to be my ADV.

 

[retired1]

I have noticed that there seem's to be no progress concerning the lawsuit's or at least a lack of urgency to put at least a temporary halt to sort out these obvious contradictions.

You can view the progress of the case here: NICOPURE LABS, LLC v. FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION et al :: District Of Columbia District Court :: Federal Civil Lawsuit No. 1:16-cv-00878

 

[bigdancehawk]

You can view the progress of the case here: NICOPURE LABS, LLC v. FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION et al :: District Of Columbia District Court :: Federal Civil Lawsuit No. 1:16-cv-00878

The right to be smoke-free coalition's motion for summary judgment was due yesterday. I can't find the text or any indication that it was filed.

 

[retired1]

Takes a few days for the legal sites to catch up. I think Pacer has the documents, but you have to pay them to view things.

 

[VNeil]

This is just speculation on my part. It seems MB is anticipating restrictions on DIY supplies. If this comes about IMHO this creates a conundrum of sorts.

Under current regulations one can grow tobacco for current use with no restrictions or regulations for personal use. The FDA will be hard pressed to restrict DIY for e-liquids while allowing DIY for tobacco users. The FDA is saying for all intents and purposes every thing is a tobacco product. Whats the reason then for treating the products differently? This is fast becoming a nightmare. I have noticed that there seem's to be no progress concerning the lawsuit's or at least a lack of urgency to put at least a temporary halt to sort out these obvious contradictions.

Regards
Mike

Unfortunately the FDA had been decidedly not hard pressed to do anything and everything it wants. If it can deem nic free juice as a tobacco product it should not have any difficulties with DIY (or anything else it desires)

 

[Racehorse]

Or... this could simply be their solution to charging more per milliliter by not giving a discount for those buying in bulk.

Blame it on the FDA. Perfect timing.

I thought of that.
Maybe too cynical.

 

[Racehorse]

I have noticed that there seem's to be no progress concerning the lawsuit's or at least a lack of urgency to put at least a temporary halt to sort out these obvious contradictions.
Regards
Mike

I'm sure you know about these guys as well as nicopure:

SEVIA USA Contributes to the Lawsuit challenging FDA’s Deeming Regulation – SeviaUSA

all the big names in chinese manufacturing joyetech, kangertech, aspire, smoktech, etc.


Of note, Keller and Heckman also the attorneys for this group. which is the same as for the nicopure group

I would kinda like to see more than one law firm represented, at least a separate one for the internationals, seems like it would cover the bases

In the meantime trying to find out what is up with Keller and Heckman and why out of milllions of lawfirms they are getting all the biz........