Measuring by ml or weight? Which is better

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Alter

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One of the reasons I like weight is for nic accuracy.

Exactly...Your trying to syringe measure 100mg nic into a 10 or 20ml mix and a couple drops get away from you or the syringe isn't calibrated, it can make a big difference of the nic percentage. I partially solved that by cutting my 100nic into 48 and pouring the 48. Trying to measure micro amounts for the 10 ingredient rocket science mix with a syringe is also inaccurate. Drops are inaccurate cause not all droppers are created equal and you use different pressures to squeeze the bottle thus different size drops come out. I also don't mix in a container to transfer into another container(beaker to jar or jug) cause there is now wasted juice that adds up over time just like the flavoring/base that is in the needle tip goes to waste. I don't even bother transferring VG/PG into another container, just pour right out of the quart bottles it came in originally, then refill the quart from the gallon bottle.
I honestly don't care how anybody set out to make their mix as long as it works for them. Scaling out by weight is slick, simple and no cleanup unless you make the mess.
 

JCinFLA

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Maybe I'm the "odd duck" here, but I've always looked at measuring by volume for my own DIY, this way: Since it's an accurate way that medical professionals use when measuring the meds for my injections, or when adding any meds directly into my IV, or adding meds into an IV drip bottle for me...it's an accurate method for me to use for making my eliquids. The only differences are - (1) What they inject is doing directly into my body, rather than being diluted with PG, VG, and flavorings that is then vaped. (2) They measure meds in CC, and I measure in mL...which are 1 in the same on a syringe.

By volume works for me, but I certainly understand that others may prefer by weight, if that works better for them.
 
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zoiDman

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... Drops are inaccurate cause not all droppers are created equal and you use different pressures to squeeze the bottle thus different size drops come out. ...

Nothing wrong with Drops. And they can be Remarkably Accurate and Precise from Drop to Drop for a given Liquid.

But you have to Use the Same Size Dropper every time. And you have to use some Dexterity so as to not "Over Drop".
 

man00ver

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I've been mixing by syringes since I started about 2 months ago. Seems like it's not completely accurate and a lot of hassle. Is switching to weight easier and a better method?
Re-quoting the OP for focus. We're helping a new mixer here, who finds his syringes are a hassle.
I will never understand how clean up is always mentioned as being a hassle.
This was the first aggressive post on the thread. Fortunately, you went on to describe the way you do things, which could be helpful and that's probably the best way to begin. There's really no need to reignite the same old shouting match whenever a rookie asks for help. I've been guilty of this as well, and I think I've learned my lesson. Let's keep it light and informative.
Nice scale. It looks really small, ideal for portable mixing. Auto shut off could be a hassle though. Does it have AC power, or is it strictly battery? Can it be set to override auto shutoff?
No AC power, and I'm not sure about resetting the timeout. It never caught me so far.
 
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JCinFLA

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Don't forget to clean that syringe after you're done.

Now, there you go...posting a snide comment or "dig". My response to @DaveP was to explain that a glass cylindrical vessel with appropriate, accurate measurements wouldn't be necessary to measure out his 1.5mL of nic for his 50mL batches. Using either a 1mL or 3mL syringe would also work.
 

SteveS45

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This was the first aggressive post on the thread. Fortunately, you went on to describe the way you do things, which could be helpful and that's probably the best way to begin. There's really no need to reignite the same old shouting match whenever a rookie asks for help. I've been guilty of this as well, and I think I've learned my lesson. Let's keep it light and informative.
.

Sorry I disagree but you are being the aggressor. I am allowed to state my opinion and since it wasn't directed at you or your statement why are you being such an :censored:?
 

SteveS45

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tokarev

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I dunno know Why?

But it seems like Volume vs Weight threads brings out Suppressed, Pent-Up Aggressions in People.

LOL

BTW - Waffles are BETTER than Pancakes. There... I Said It!

Darn right they are! Mmmmmm....now I want me some chicken waffles.:lol:

But to get back on topic....I started out measuring by volume but I mix in a room with no running water and some of my recipes have 5 or 6 flavors. Since I used a different syringe for each flavor I wound up with a bunch of them to carry to another room to rinse out. Also, many of my recipes call for very small amounts of flavor (0.5% or 0.25%) and I usually mix only 30-60 ml at a time so the amount to measure even in a 1 ml syringe is tiny and hard for my tired old eyes to see. When I read about using weight I gave it a try and never looked back. It's much easier for me to measure 0.25% of 30 ml with a scale than a syringe. Of course, if you normally mix much larger amounts that would not be an issue.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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Count me as someone that's done both, found a lot of issues with by weight as some stock you may get may be off, you cannot trust the calibration of your scale unless you test it regularly, then, you can spend an few days testing all your liquids to ensure that you're doing it correctly and have the exact weight per volume, AND you still need a container to put the liquid in before you transfer to bottles for larger batches... in the end, I found that the whole weight thing is but an illusion when it comes to "absolute" measurements and being "simpler".

While with my cylinders, I simply add the liquids together doing math, then transfer to my bottle, and "rinse" my cylinder with my base that goes into the bottle (which is also graduated).

So I will stick to my graduated precision cylinder and drops, and after hundreds of bottles done, I've yet to tip over death from having to rinse out my cylinder and my mixing tip (milk frother) (and my larger bottle when I do larger batches).

Between the two, I've always found it faster and less chances of a screw-up going by volume, I've yet to have a "bad bottle" because I didn't do it by weight, nor issues with "contamination of flavours". Then again, I usually do my recipes that share some flavours one after another, and heck, should I accidentally get a fraction of a drop of a flavour in another recipe, I don't believe that it's grounds to set my house on fire and jump into a ravine. Heck, if anything, I might end up with an improvement.

And it does amuse me to see the mindset of "only by weight is accurate" all the while, you still are dropping the liquids drop by drop (for small quantities), so that your calculator states 0.7g or 7 drops (just a random number for example purpose only), as you'll be getting to that 0.7g, you have to do it drop by drop while looking as the scale's screen until it gets "close enough"... instead of going "drip drip drip (7 drops). I betcha I can count 7 drops faster that most would come close to their weight measurement.

To those that insist on how great by weight is and the no cleaning part, I would ask:

In what do you mix? large bottles that doesn't need cleaning after you've transferred to smaller bottles?
How do you mix? just shaking the bottles?
How are you certain that you have the correct weight for each liquid or are you relying on someone else's measurements?


Please note that I know that my post might sound aggressive, but that is not my goal, it's just a bit of frustration that every time there's any talk about mixing, the people that adopted by weight, tend to rant on about how magical it is... and it just rubs me like a PC vs Mac debate. Each approach works, and it really is a question of preference that some people prefer one way over the other, but that both have their good and bad points. This post illustrate the reasons why by weight is a lot more flawed than most will admit. But also, technique used can make a huge difference too.
 
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IDJoel

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Each approach works, and it really is a question of preference that some people prefer one way over the other, but that both have their good and bad points.
^^^^^^^^^This!

Posted by a DIYer who has mixed by both volume and weight and settled on weight only because it was a better choice... for me. If budget permits; try both and see which method works best for you.
 

man00ver

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For informational purposes, here are my answers.
In what do you mix? large bottles that doesn't need cleaning after you've transferred to smaller bottles?
I do my mixing in the 15mL (usually a test mix), 30mL, 50mL or 60mL bottle that will hold the finished liquid until I vape it. I don't mix larger batches, because I like to jump around. I don't continuously vape any recipe for more than a day or two.
How do you mix? just shaking the bottles?
I use a little battery-powered hand mixer, with a flexible plastic split-stick attachment that flies open when it spins. It mixes with great efficiency right in the final bottle.
How are you certain that you have the correct weight for each liquid or are you relying on someone else's measurements?
I rely on the measurements on the ELR database, which are collected from the flavor manufacturers' data sheets. If those are not available, I believe 1.04g/mL is the default (this is the specific gravity of PG). For some other ingredients (such as white vinegar or apple cider vinegar), the specific gravity is publicly available too. Honestly, I want this to be easy, so I don't obsess too much about a couple hundredths of a gram here or there.
Each approach works, and it really is a question of preference that some people prefer one way over the other, but that both have their good and bad points.
I fully agree, and I said as much in post #3. I've done both, and I enjoy doing both, even when I screw it up (which I've done with both methods)....
 
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bwh79

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Objectively, measuring by mass is going to be the truest most correct, accurate, and all around "best" way of determining "how much muchness" there is to a thing. You can measure it in liters, or pounds, or you can measure it by the number of McDonald's straws it fills up or how many seconds it takes to drip through a sieve. But all of these are subjective. Your sieve might have a finer mesh than mine, McDonald's in different countries might not use the same straws, things weigh a lot more pounds on Jupiter than they do on one of its moons, and "ten liters of H2O" doesn't say much when you don't know if I'm talking about steam or ice. But if you know the mass of it, none of these things matter. Mass is mass. One gram, is one gram. It doesn't matter if it's on Jupiter, or if it's vaporized, or how big your straws are, and maybe it's a solid lump and won't even go through a sieve, but if you can manage to figure out what something's mass is in the here and now, you know it will have that same mass in the then and there.

Fortunately, here on the earth's surface, where we all experience roughly (to a very very small fraction) the same gravitation, mass and weight are intertwined through the gravitational constant, and a properly calibrated weighing device (such as an electronic scale with digital readout) can give a very precise and accurate representation of an object's mass. Therefore, objectively, measuring by weight is without question, the superior method. At least in the presence of a constant gravitational field. It probably wouldn't work out so well for those guys on ISS, but I don't think they're allowed to vape.

In the real world, though, none of that really matters. Sure, pouring our ingredients through a sieve is a horrible way to measure by any account, but the rest of them are legit. I mentioned before that we all experience roughly the same gravity. Well, we also experience roughly the same atmospheric conditions, and this, combined with the fact that liquids in general just aren't very compressible anyways, means that the volume will be relatively consistent in all foreseeable circumstances, as well. You want to measure in gallons, or liters, or cups or spoonfuls or Coke-bottle caps, be my guest. Counting the number of straws it takes to hold it is essentially just the same as "measuring by length" in a shape with constant cross-sectional area. Well, we've already got a name for that, it's called a graduated cylinder. Some of them have pumps and interlocking nozzles attached, and we call them luer-lock syringes with graduated markings.

They work "fine." There's nothing "wrong" with them. The digital readout on the electronic scale is nice, but if you have good eyes, a steady hand, and quality, calibrated equipment you can probably measure as accurately and precisely, and both ways can likely be more accurate and precise than any of us can taste, anyway. So in the real world, it all comes down to personal preference. There is something to be said for the ease of cleanup (or rather, lack of cleanup) involved when you can have all your ingredients in dropper bottles and mix directly into the container atop a digital scale, but some people are just more comfortable with the idea of using volumetric measurements. And that's okay. You can get plenty good enough results measuring liquids, by volume, under relatively consistent environmental conditions. It's absolutely "fine" if you prefer to do it that way. The theoretical flaws are slight, and not likely to make any difference in real-world application. Objectively, though, there is a "best" way, and those people are technically doing it wrong.
 

bwh79

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To those that insist on how great by weight is and the no cleaning part, I would ask:

In what do you mix? large bottles that doesn't need cleaning after you've transferred to smaller bottles?
Directly into the bottle. Large or small, it depends on if I'm making a big batch of something tried-and-true, or testing a new recipe. Of course I have to clean the bottle out if I want to use it for a different flavor, but that would be true no matter how you mixed up what was going in it. If I'm re-mixing the same flavor, I won't even wash out the bottle, I'll just mix right on top of what was left.

Sometimes I have to wash a funnel when I'm done.

How do you mix? just shaking the bottles?
Yup. A solid 2-minutes after mixing gets it all nice and frothy-looking, and then whenever I think about it until I think it tastes good. You do have to leave some headroom in the bottles but that's not hard, most have it built-in already and will actually hold quite a bit more than their stated capacity if you fill them all the way up to the neck.

How are you certain that you have the correct weight for each liquid or are you relying on someone else's measurements?
Does it matter? If it tastes good to me, and I make it again the same way next time, who cares? How are you certain that you have the correct calibration on your graduated cylinders, or are you relying on someone else's measurements? Does it matter? If it tastes good to you, and you make it again the same way next time, who cares?
 

mhertz

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I use scales because it's faster and easier for me, though I believe volume is more accurate honestly. I could care less the specific weight of my ingredients and use standard values which is in a close-enough ballpark and makes for repeatable, though not fully accurate mixes(e.g. 1g/ml for all flavors). Please let us respect each others preferences without taking it personally or seen as an attack on own used method ;)
 
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mikepetro

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I have done both, and can get pretty good repeatability with either. I prefer volume as that is just what I am used to, although I think do weight is technically more accurate. Accuracy with either method is largely dependent on the precision of the user. If you develop good protocols you can achieve "accurate enough" either way.

If doing volume, I do find it helps if you use the appropriate size syringe, ie the smallest syringe that holds the entire volume being measured. I also buy my syringes in bulk at the vet shops, they cost about a dime each so I just throw them away rather than trying to clean them.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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For informational purposes, here are my answers.

I do my mixing in the 15mL (usually a test mix), 30mL, 50mL or 60mL bottle that will hold the finished liquid until I vape it. I don't mix larger batches, because I like to jump around. I don't continuously vape any recipe for more than a day or two.

I do a bit of both, 30ml for the mixes that we enjoy but just once in a while, while a good 250ml for the main one that we go through quite a lot. The 30ml, I just do drops directly, I count quite fast and there's absolutely nothing to clean (aside the mixer stick that I simply wipe clean in 3 seconds).

I use a little battery-powered hand mixer, with a flexible plastic split-stick attachment that flies open when it spins. It mixes with great efficiency right in the final bottle.

:thumbs:Sounds like we use the exact some thing, fits in the bottle's neck, guarantees that it's as mixed as can be, shortens the steeping time by half if not more than just shaking the bottle. I do have another with the whisk tip for the larger bottle.

I rely on the measurements on the ELR database, which are collected from the flavor manufacturers' data sheets. If those are not available, I believe 1.04g/mL is the default (this is the specific gravity of PG). For some other ingredients (such as white vinegar or apple cider vinegar), the specific gravity is publicly available too. Honestly, I want this to be easy, so I don't obsess too much about a couple hundredths of a gram here or there.

Ditto, so an extra drop here and there has never been an issue, plus I tend to "play" and try some extra of one flavouring and reduce another and see how it turns out. It's not like I'm playing alchemist and someone will turn into a frog or something should the recipe be not exact every time... then again, I do the same when cooking.

I fully agree, and I said as much in post #3. I've done both, and I enjoy doing both, even when I screw it up (which I've done with both methods)....

For me, at some point, I just find it more trouble to watch a screen than just counting the drops, as I might get clumsy and start missing the hole if I pay too much attention to the screen. :pervy: (yeah yeah, cue the naughty jokes)
 
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