Measuring by ml or weight? Which is better

[tokarev]

I use scales because it's faster and easier for me, though I believe volume is more accurate honestly. I could care less the specific weight of my ingredients and use standard values which is in a close-enough ballpark and makes for repeatable, though not fully accurate mixes(e.g. 1g/ml for all flavors). Please let us respect each others preferences without taking it personally or seen as an attack on own used method

This describes my feelings perfectly. I think I probably was more accurate when using syringes, but it was more tedious for me. I don't claim greater accuracy with a scale, just repeatability. Whatever your personal preference, if it works for you, go for it.

 

[mikepetro]

...start missing the hole.......yeah yeah, cue the naughty jokes)

I wont make fun, its a damn age related thing....

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

It's funny, the few people that I have on ignore (I dared hit the view ignored) are the ones that did the most patronizing posts, yet again.

But anyways, What I got from all this is that I should look at getting a Chemical Particle Counter, wash my bottles using morning dew from the three highest mountains only, dry them by moonlight, mix with an ultrasonic degassing & de-aeration stirrer, and then I'll be the bee's wax and be able to giggle at everyone that's still doing it like a bunch of primitive savages.


But seriously, no matter the method, it's all about if it taste right for you, and repetition, someone could use a bunch of sewing thimbles to measure and it'll be cool.

And about weight and gravity being a constant.. about that...(lol)

New map reveals Earth's gravity not the same around the globe

Gravity of Earth - Wikipedia

 

[Eskie]

Let's face it, there are only a few things we put in a bottle that really matter to what you vape in the end. I just made up 90 ml of a favorite clone in a 120 ml bottle which already had ~20 ml of old for the "old juice helping new juice" steeping. I used 3 syringes and 1 cylinder.

This is how I did it. Nic 5.4 ml. This one is sorta important. so I used my 5 ml syringe then my 1 ml for the 0.4 ml remaining. As long as I had the 1 ml in use, 0.9 ml EM, same for AP at 1.8 ml (1 ml then 0.8 ml), 10 ml syringe for the 11 ml of Ry4D, same syringe for the 14 ml PG. grab the cylinder and measure out 54 ml of VG and done. Shake, hot water bath, shake, shake, over.

I rinse my syringes between each substance. I only draw INTO the syringe. If I overshoot, well, into the sink as I do not want to risk cross contamination. From start to finish that took me maybe 2 minutes (not counting the hot water bath), which is longer than it took for me to dig out all the flavorings I needed (I keep them all in plastic containers in case they leak with no real organization to them, which obviously would be helpful).

That's MY method. Works well for me. Everyone should use whatever method they feel most comfortable with, and what's most time efficient for them. Just throwing this out there but 1% is 0.9 ml, so my accuracy is well below that, to no more than a 0.5% error. That doesn't bother me or throw my vape off.

Single biggest source of error in mixing by volume is the VG. It is viscous and making sure it's all transferred over from a cylinder rather than a syringe you can push to fully empty does require a touch of patience. If I wanted to speed up my workflow I should probably just pick up a 50 ml syringe and be done.

Will an inexpensive kitchen scale really offer accuracy any greater? Lab grade, sure, but a $20 scale from Amazon that is maybe accurate to 0.1 gm? Not a dramatic improvement. But if a scale is working well for your workflow why not, it's as good as any other way, including mine.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Single biggest source of error in mixing by volume is the VG. It is viscous and making sure it's all transferred over from a cylinder rather than a syringe you can push to fully empty does require a touch of patience. If I wanted to speed up my workflow I should probably just pick up a 50 ml syringe and be done.

I've premixed my PG/VG base at about 30/70 - 20/80 and have not a care about the flavouring's PG ratio.

I use one of these and it's perfect.. pours easily to bottles or whatever, easy to control the flow:

And note that my bottles are graduated (my 30ml and my 50ml), so I simply add the flavouring, the nic, and top it off to the correct fill line, use my mixer, and I'm set.

Both the middle white tips will fit in a bottle's neck and mix inside the bottle (the "V" shaped one required a bit of snipping at the tips).

 

[bwh79]

And about weight and gravity being a constant.. about that...(lol)

New map reveals Earth's gravity not the same around the globe

Gravity of Earth - Wikipedia

From your second link: "Effective gravity on the Earth's surface varies by around 0.7%" What was that I said about a very very small fraction? I'll see your "lol" and raise you seven-tenths of one percent of a lol. You can go ahead and put me back on "ignore," now, if you want.

 

[mhertz]

[...]
Will an inexpensive kitchen scale really offer accuracy any greater? Lab grade, sure, but a $20 scale from Amazon that is maybe accurate to 0.1 gm? Not a dramatic improvement. But if a scale is working well for your workflow why not, it's as good as any other way, including mine.

No, I don't think so. It's just slightly quicker for many because of the saved cleaning. For many, that 30 sec to a couple of minutes saved is irrelevant, and I respect that, though I always love to optimize whatever optimizable without ill-effect. The same reason I always love making shell-scripts for each repetetive thing I do, no matter if it's just 30 sec saved on small jobs, or more, like reinstalling my whole OS, apps and settings automatically.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

No, I don't think so. It's just slightly quicker for many because of the saved cleaning. For many, that 30 sec to a couple of minutes saved is irrelevant, and I respect that, though I always love to optimize whatever optimizable without ill-effect. The same reason I always love making shell-scripts for each repetetive thing I do, no matter if it's just 30 sec saved on small jobs, or more, like reinstalling my whole OS, apps and settings automatically.

I think it's more a question of bad approaches.

Let's take cooking for example...

Some people will make a sandwich and dirty every knife, counter space, a dozen containers, the floor covered in crap and so on. The sandwich will be a sandwich, average, nothing so special that it warrants the mess created, nor the time required to clean it.

Others, can make a full meal (like a big spaghetti sauce, which requires many ingredients) and maximize their approach and end up with virtually nothing to clean aside a knife and some counter space, and the meal will be great. All that will be left will be the pots for after the meal.

So when I hear the whole "save so much on cleaning time", it's like this that I see it: "I guess someone just can't make a sandwich without being messy".

 

[Capt.shay]

I think it's more a question of bad approaches.

Let's take cooking for example...

Some people will make a sandwich and dirty every knife, counter space, a dozen containers, the floor covered in crap and so on. The sandwich will be a sandwich, average, nothing so special that it warrants the mess created, nor the time required to clean it.

Others, can make a full meal (like a big spaghetti sauce, which requires many ingredients) and maximize their approach and end up with virtually nothing to clean aside a knife and some counter space, and the meal will be great. All that will be left will be the pots for after the meal.

So when I hear the whole "save so much on cleaning time", it's like this that I see it: "I guess someone just can't make a sandwich without being messy".

Well, it's more like one way you don't have ANY pots to clean and the other way you can have a bunch of them. If you try to cook with a sledge hammer then no matter how neat you try to be, your still going to have a mess. So, another way to see it is some one is going to have a lot of pots to wash and some one else will only have one or none at all.

 

[mhertz]

I can't talk for others, but I didn't say it saves so much time myself, infact the quite opposite and stated it was neglible and maybe 30 sec. I'm not of the messy type myself, quite the opposite, but know what you mean.

I also just think it's a nicer approach for me personally, not only because of saving 30 sec, but also because it's to me is just a "cleaner/simpler/nicer" approach i.e. you don't need to e.g. use different syringes during, or cleaning them inbetween, or using different cylinders etc, it's just as simple as can possibly be imho i.e. a scale and your destination bottle on top and then your ingredients to add directly without anything inbetween or cleanup afterwards. Both weight and volume will do the job and a fine one at that, and the differnce in time between each is neglible.

I agree if some state that you save so much time on cleaning, that they propperly aren't doing the job optimally when using volume

To me, the scale simply acts as a digital syringe, that can take all amounts from very small to very big without needing to be cleaned in between different ingredients(the TARE button is the auto-cleaning part )...

 

[Eskie]

What it really comes down to is this. Using our non-industrial grade stuff we have the accuracy between weight and volume is pretty much the same. No consumer grade $20 scale will be accurate to 10 mg (I worry about 100 mg). No syringe, even the smallest, commonly used 1 ml will only be good to maybe 0.05 ml. So it all comes down to workflow. That you go with based on whatever is easiest for you. As long as you're consistent in however you mix, your juices should be reproducible for you.

 

[mhertz]

Nicely stated mate! Also, even though the scale isn't fully accurate, another inaccuracy to be added is the ingredients, which we either use standard ball-park values for, or SG's from the MSDS, but even in the latter case, those SG's are for a set temperature and before rebottling and us opening/closing bottles endlessly which can suck in moisture from the air. In short, fully agree

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

72 posts already and I have yet to see the OP come back to comment. The argument one or the other is never going to change the members mind who have already decided as to their own preferred method. Clearly the OP abandoned this thread early on.

I can see where all the 'saved' time has gone....into beating a dead horse.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Well, it's more like one way you don't have ANY pots to clean and the other way you can have a bunch of them. If you try to cook with a sledge hammer then no matter how neat you try to be, your still going to have a mess. So, another way to see it is some one is going to have a lot of pots to wash and some one else will only have one or none at all.

If you're doing a large amount, even if you're doing by weight, you'll end up with a large bottle to wash, then, how do you mix large amounts before transferring to the smaller bottles? I doubt someone that understands that just shaking a large bottle isn't going to mix properly will have something to mix things with. So you have a larger bottle and whatever device you used to mix to clean.

If you're doing small bottles and you're dripping drops, heck, you have less to do, nothing to clean and no need to take a scale out, check if it's calibrated, etc.

Like I said, it's all about technique.

 

[OlderNDirt]

If you're doing a large amount, even if you're doing by weight, you'll end up with a large bottle to wash, then, how do you mix large amounts before transferring to the smaller bottles? I doubt someone that understands that just shaking a large bottle isn't going to mix properly will have something to mix things with. So you have a larger bottle and whatever device you used to mix to clean.

If you're doing small bottles and you're dripping drops, heck, you have less to do, nothing to clean and no need to take a scale out, check if it's calibrated, etc.

Like I said, it's all about technique.

It would probably be helpful to those researching if you would define what a "large amount" and "large bottle" is in your statement. My "large bottle" used for mixing by weight is 120ml, so I have no problem at all mixing into my final container. I don't see why I couldn't mix into a 240ml bottle if I wanted, but can't imagine going larger then that. And since I don't have and don't plan on getting "something to mix things with", shaking will have to do for now.

 

[mhertz]

Shake/mixing is perfectly fine, no matter bottle size, if using propper technique... That is, propper headspace and shaking the bottle laying from the side, where the meniscus is much bigger for propper mixing. It takes some time of course and force...

Using something electric would be faster, and preferable properly, but I haven't researched it properly yet, for what/which method to use/is best...

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

It would probably be helpful to those researching if you would define what a "large amount" and "large bottle" is in your statement. My "large bottle" used for mixing by weight is 120ml, so I have no problem at all mixing into my final container. I don't see why I couldn't mix into a 240ml bottle if I wanted, but can't imagine going larger then that. And since I don't have and don't plan on getting "something to mix things with", shaking will have to do for now.

It's in reference to any larger bottle that is used to make a batch that will be transferred over to smaller bottles for either sharing, selling, easier to carry, etc.

I would think that it's fairly obvious.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Shake/mixing is perfectly fine, no matter bottle size, if using propper technique... That is, propper headspace and shaking the bottle laying from the side, where the meniscus is much bigger for propper mixing. It takes some time of course and force...

Using something electric would be faster, and preferable properly, but I haven't researched it properly yet, for what/which method to use/is best...

When you're doing about 20-30 bottles, you'll want something to mix as by shaking that many will kill your arm.

Also, just shaking doesn't do a great job at ensuring any "hot spots" of nic or flavouring.

Either a mixer, blender, anything that mixes is just fine. Some prefer going all chemist and get magnetic stirrers (basically you drop in a magnet in the liquid that spin, while you may have a liquid heater to warm it to a specific temp). Some also go with an ultrasonic cleaner with warm water.

Using these approaches, you do cut the steeping time by half (at least).

Also, one main goal is that you need to have the least air getting into the liquid as this will oxidize it, which kills off the nic. and can make the flavours go off-ish, another reason why I no longer consider "shaking the bottle" to be a good way to do it.

 

[OlderNDirt]

It's in reference to any larger bottle that is used to make a batch that will be transferred over to smaller bottles for either sharing, selling, easier to carry, etc.

I would think that it's fairly obvious.

Evidently not since I don't "share, sell, nor carry" my juices. Maybe most do?

If you're doing a large amount, even if you're doing by weight, you'll end up with a large bottle to wash

Nor is it obvious why, regardless of mixing method, the "large bottle" would require cleaning. If your preferred method is to mix in "large bottles", then transfer to small bottles, more power to you. I, and I have to assume others (maybe even many others), are quite content mixing directly into the bottles we use to drip or fill our tanks which does not require cleaning of bottles of any size......regardless of mixing method.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Evidently not since I don't "share, sell, nor carry" my juices. Maybe most do?
Nor is it obvious why, regardless of mixing method, the "large bottle" would require cleaning. If your preferred method is to mix in "large bottles", then transfer to small bottles, more power to you. I, and I have to assume others (maybe even many others), are quite content mixing directly into the bottles we use to drip or fill our tanks which does not require cleaning of bottles of any size......regardless of mixing method.

If you followed the thread, the "larger bottle to transfer to smaller ones" has been mentioned already. And I do believe that "most do" carry a bottle around with them, or simply don't use large 120 or 250 ml bottles to fill their tanks or drippers. Personally I fill my tank before I leave, as I just have the driving time and a bit when I can throughout my day, but I do have a bottle in the car, and usually in my desk as "backup". But my wife and daughter always have 2-3 bottles with them at all times.

And sure, if a person is planning to use one bottle for a single recipe over and over, no reason to clean it...until it ends up grimy, or possibly contaminated.

Lots of things said relate to any method used, and that's been part of the "debate" as many that uses scale seem to absolutely believe that any other method is dirty and messy (and inaccurate)... I can easily do a few bottles doing them directly, using the "counting drops" method, and I'll probably be a lot faster than someone using a scale, and there won't be a mess or anything to clean aside my mixer's stick, something that regardless of method, I'd still have to wipe it clean.