Mech vs Varible devices

[Marc411]

I own both so this isn't bashing one or the other and I enjoy using both but have started to slide more to the variable side.

With the recent posts on mechs going "south" and folks not taking the time to learn proper building and battery safety is it time for manufactures to start phasing them out? I read a thread this morning from a member that wanted to move to a "cheap mech" and cringed. The majority of the accidents we see are normally mechs (and the isticks )

Wouldn't moving to a regulated market be safer?

I won't ever stop using my mechs but I was scratching my head wondering with all the new technology and power on the regulated side what is the point. I'm interested in hearing others thoughts.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

imho the hybrid top cap style mechs should be removed from the market since they are involved in the vast majority of incidents and take a higher level of knowledge and awareness to safely operate. But they are as cheap as $10 so many get them without knowing how to safely use them. The ones with no delrin insulator ring in the top are the most dangerous.

Regulated are much safer to use but proper batteries must still be used for high wattage applications or unsafe problems can occur.
And some regulated devices have their own inherent problems. The istick 50 comes to mind.

 

[edyle]

I own both so this isn't bashing one or the other and I enjoy using both but have started to slide more to the variable side.
With the recent posts on mechs going "south" and folks not taking the time to learn proper building and battery safety is it time for manufactures to start phasing them out? I read a thread this morning from a member that wanted to move to a "cheap mech" and cringed. The majority of the accidents we see are normally mechs (and the isticks )
Wouldn't moving to a regulated market be safer?
I won't ever stop using my mechs but I was scratching my head wondering with all the new technology and power on the regulated side what is the point. I'm interested in hearing others thoughts.

Most of my mechs have kick modules in them.

The issue is about modularity vs integrated.

Why can't I get a 20 or 30 watt kick module ?
Why can't I get a temperature control kick module ?

For me, a mech is just a container when I can put in my own chip ('kick module') without having to solder or deal with a pressfit, or make to design my own box.

One idea I do have for a box mech, is to make a box wired for series batts, but the 'top' batt is where I'd put adapter modules for a kick or the various chips. As long as a chip dimension can fit into the 18650 profile, I can fit the chip into a tube that size and pop it in like a battery.



As opposed to the notion of getting rid of mechs, what users would benefit from is more standardization, so that parts from different hardware can match together.

Among the mechs for example, one issue is the different threadings that different mechs use; I don't mind I have some mechs that are m21x1, and there are lots of mechs with m20x1 threads, but gosh golly gee, why does my nemesis have an odd m20x0.5 thread? And there's supposed to be a few with m20x0.75

 

[Marc411]

Agreed, that's why I mentioned the istick in my post. And I don't use the hybrid top caps so I didn't even think about those when I was posting. Also a real good point!

 

[Bad Ninja]

I own both so this isn't bashing one or the other and I enjoy using both but have started to slide more to the variable side.

With the recent posts on mechs going "south" and folks not taking the time to learn proper building and battery safety is it time for manufactures to start phasing them out? I read a thread this morning from a member that wanted to move to a "cheap mech" and cringed. The majority of the accidents we see are normally mechs (and the isticks )

Wouldn't moving to a regulated market be safer?

I won't ever stop using my mechs but I was scratching my head wondering with all the new technology and power on the regulated side what is the point. I'm interested in hearing others thoughts.

Why would anyone want to "phase them out"?

The ones going "south" are early due to user error.

Mechs are for "advanced" vapers who understand their gear.

Maybe more people should understand and accept their own limitations.

 

[mauricem00]

no mod is perfectly safe or fool proof. hybrids are more dangerous but the mech. mod will be around as long as there are people buying them.I love my nemesis mechanical mod and just recently ordered a 12 watt kick for one of them. but if you take the time to learn ohms law and build reasonable coils. and test them before firing them. with good batteries mechanicals are safe and more reliable then regulated mods. if a kick fails I can remove it and keep vaping and their is no risk of it auto firing and overheating the battery.. mechanicals don't fire unless you press the button.use the locking ring when you put them in your pocket.

 

[mauricem00]

Most of my mechs have kick modules in them.

The issue is about modularity vs integrated.

Why can't I get a 20 or 30 watt kick module ?
Why can't I get a temperature control kick module ?

For me, a mech is just a container when I can put in my own chip ('kick module') without having to solder or deal with a pressfit, or make to design my own box.

One idea I do have for a box mech, is to make a box wired for series batts, but the 'top' batt is where I'd put adapter modules for a kick or the various chips. As long as a chip dimension can fit into the 18650 profile, I can fit the chip into a tube that size and pop it in like a battery.



As opposed to the notion of getting rid of mechs, what users would benefit from is more standardization, so that parts from different hardware can match together.

Among the mechs for example, one issue is the different threadings that different mechs use; I don't mind I have some mechs that are m21x1, and there are lots of mechs with m20x1 threads, but gosh golly gee, why does my nemesis have an odd m20x0.5 thread? And there's supposed to be a few with m20x0.75

a 30 watt kick would be a great ideal and probably very popular. several people have asked fasteck to start carrying them so maybe they will asked their suppliers to make one. more uniformity would be great too.was not aware that kick modules that could handle 2 series batteries were available. thought they were all 3.7 volt units

 

[defdock]

If a 30w kick was avaliable, I would have never bought my regulated devices.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Why would anyone want to "phase them out"?

The ones going "south" are early due to user error.

Mechs are for "advanced" vapers who understand their gear.

Maybe more people should understand and accept their own limitations.

And just how do you prevent the "unsafe" devices from being misused by the non advanced users? FT will sell to anyone and so will most B&M's.
buyer beware?

This attitude WILL be used against vaping in general.

Safety devices have been required on most consumer devices.
Guards on circular saws. Brakes on lawnmower blades. Interlock switches on many devices. Prevention of electrical shock hazards.
These types of regulations WILL happen for vaping devices as well.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Most of my mechs have kick modules in them.

The issue is about modularity vs integrated.

Why can't I get a 20 or 30 watt kick module ?
Why can't I get a temperature control kick module ?

For me, a mech is just a container when I can put in my own chip ('kick module') without having to solder or deal with a pressfit, or make to design my own box.

One idea I do have for a box mech, is to make a box wired for series batts, but the 'top' batt is where I'd put adapter modules for a kick or the various chips. As long as a chip dimension can fit into the 18650 profile, I can fit the chip into a tube that size and pop it in like a battery.



As opposed to the notion of getting rid of mechs, what users would benefit from is more standardization, so that parts from different hardware can match together.

Among the mechs for example, one issue is the different threadings that different mechs use; I don't mind I have some mechs that are m21x1, and there are lots of mechs with m20x1 threads, but gosh golly gee, why does my nemesis have an odd m20x0.5 thread? And there's supposed to be a few with m20x0.75

I have no notion of getting rid of Mechs. Just the most unsafe ones in the hands of inexperienced users.

 

[Marc411]

Why would anyone want to "phase them out"?

The ones going "south" are early due to user error.

Mechs are for "advanced" vapers who understand their gear.

Maybe more people should understand and accept their own limitations.

You are absolutely correct Ninja people should understand and accept their own limitations. Again, I love my mechs and would never get rid of them but I did the research and read damn near everything Baditude wrote in his blog. The people that take the time to educate themselves really aren't the problem although you do hear stories once and a while about someone dropping a mech in their pocket without locking it.

Some B&M's are selling them to starting vapers who are getting them to throw low ohm builds in them and then ending up in the news with screwed up body parts. I was running my Velocity on my Stingray and when the battery needed to be changed I moved the Velocity to my SX Mini, tweaked the wattage and got the same exact vape. The bonus was the meter, I knew when my battery needed to be swapped. That's what got me scratching my head and why not just go regulated? I'll tell you that I am also full of it because while I am sitting here typing this I have my Viking on a Nemesis and it's an outstanding vape.

In just the last week alone I read 3 stories about mechs going south and I'm just not sure that is a good thing for any of us. The chances get reduced drastically by going regulated. Hell most shut off when your battery life gets to low.

 

[edyle]

I have no notion of getting rid of Mechs. Just the most unsafe ones in the hands of inexperienced users.

Sorry; should have quoted the OP; wasn't referring to your post.
Fixed.

 

[93gc40]

Mechs, don't fail the batteries in them, which by the way, are the same ones used in HIGH POWERED regulated mods, are what fail. Using a regulated mod does NOT remove the risk of battery failure, ONLY lessens it.

I say we need to BAN batteries.

 

[Danrogers]

Ok, in my opinion it's the popularity of cloud chasing that is the real culprit combined with the age of certain vapers and their lack of battery and mod safety. I use a mech mod and build my coils to about 1.3ohms, my AW 1600 mah batteries are rates at 24 amps. I am running my mod well within the safety limits, infact I could go much lower ohm coil say .5 and still be safe. However from what I have read some beginner vapers start out at .2 or lower with no idea about what their battery can handle. Safety is what we should be preaching not the end of mech mods, one last thing, on my mod I have a spring and if my battery has a problem my spring will collapse and the mod will not work, safety first!

 

[Revelene]

I personally only use unregulated box mods. Both parallel and series. Not a complete direct connection, always use a MOSFET. Made in America, made locally or made by me. I've yet to find a regulated mod that can give me the same vape... they all seem cheap.

 

[Marc411]

Dan, I run a couple REO's myself and Rob's design is outstanding. I've only dropped a spring once in almost two years because of a stray piece of wire on the deck. Made me double check everything a lot closer after building. It metered fine and must have moved when I screwed it onto the mod. Tiny piece of 26ga and my eyes suck.

 

[vapo jam]

I use variables now. I used mechs for a long time because variables couldn't put out the same amount of power, but now that they can, I don't see any reason to forego all of the added safety benefits.

I do have a very good understanding of electrical theory, battery safety, mod safety, etc. That being said, I also have a good understanding of driving and car safety, but my car still does have seat belts and air bags.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

If a 30w kick was avaliable, I would have never bought my regulated devices.

Does a 30W kick exist?
I don't think they do and if they do not it is not likely that they will exist. A bit harder to make a 30w kick than the others that handle 10W.
Heat dissapation and size becomes an issue. Plus cost and low demand compared to a cheap 30 VV/VW device for not more than twice the cost including an internal battery.
And most people would rather adjust their wattage without taking their device apart to do it.
someone may make them but do not hold your breath for it.

 

[defdock]

No, not a real product yet.

I understand the "usability" aspect, but in reality your only setting it once and just leaving it in the device. If your constantly changing wattage, that's something you need to look into.

I expect a size increase compared to the older 15w kicks due to the need for more chips ect.

As far as price, even if it was 50-100$ I would still buy it, as its usable in more mods then just one and I personally don't need over 30w. So new devises are redundant, and I'd still be saving money.

The problem is, companies don't want to attempt going down that road as they are already "stable" making box mods and high wattage devices for the cloud bros.

 

[Bad Ninja]

And just how do you prevent the "unsafe" devices from being misused by the non advanced users? FT will sell to anyone and so will most B&M's.
buyer beware?

This attitude WILL be used against vaping in general.

Safety devices have been required on most consumer devices.
Guards on circular saws. Brakes on lawnmower blades. Interlock switches on many devices. Prevention of electrical shock hazards.
These types of regulations WILL happen for vaping devices as well.

"Mechanical mods are for advanced users".
Even Fasttech posts this.
(You really have to go out of your way to order a mechanical mod from a Chinese website.)

As a responsible adult, you DO know your limitations, right?

If you aren't sure if you are an "advanced user", then yes, avoid mechanical mods until you understand them fully.

So yes, the buyer assumes the responsibility.
I cannot make excuses for the poor choices of fully grown adults.


As far as B&M stores go, adults should not leave their buying choices in the hands of the people who sell the item.

That's just not smart. That's being a sucker.

As adults we can't expect the nanny state to constantly look out for us, not that we should want too.

And mechanical "mods" are modified flashlights.
No regulation will come for mechs.