More distressing news for the ANTZ from England.

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LaraC

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From a link within the article you found, skoony --

David Shaw's "Personal View" published in the British Medical Journal (BMJ)

http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h5063

"Hospitals are wrong to ban e-cigarette use"
BMJ 2015; 351 doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.h5063 (Published 30 September 2015)

David Shaw, senior research fellow, Institute for Biomedical Ethics, University of Basel, Bernoullistrasse 28, 4056 Basel, Switzerland

Hospitals should encourage innovative use of electronic cigarettes to reduce harm from tobacco, writes David Shaw.

An excerpt:

A great public health opportunity

Banning e-cigarettes [from hospitals] also means missing a great public health opportunity. If patients who smoke were given free e-cigarettes and the ban on normal cigarettes on hospital grounds were strictly enforced, it might improve health and reduce passive smoking around the hospital. Furthermore, any patients who switched to e-cigarettes during a hospital stay might continue vaping rather than return to tobacco cigarettes, further benefiting public health. Hospitals should be using e-cigarettes in creative ways to improve patients’ health rather than banning them while continuing to tolerate conventional smoking around their premises.

The ideological opposition to e-cigarette use in hospitals is understandable to an extent, because smoking is a highly polarised public health problem.9 E-cigarettes are not completely harmless, and their connections with the deadly tobacco industry make many people uncomfortable.10 But their potentially beneficial effect on individual and public health is undeniable. By refusing to allow the use of e-cigarettes on hospital grounds, the NHS is harming the health of patients and the wider public.
 

Jman8

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Dislike the allusion to passive smoking as justification for why to allow vaping. Especially considering that hospitals may have ban extended to blocks away from main entrance. Thus, I'm not sure what the point is being made here, though pretty sure it is: let's promote smokers to vape instead of smoke.

I think reality will be that if you are in hospital staying there for more than 1 day, that one viable option will be to introduce abusive smoker to idea of stopping smoking / eliminating use of nicotine altogether. I would think from medical perspective, this would be the #1 thing to advocate. I don't think medical personnel are going to say, in all instances, "you can either smoke blocks away or vape here, and we stand by this option as best path for you going forward."

But I do think in some instances, it will be more practical to say this to certain patients.

As for free product, I'm thinking that is so hospital has sense of control over what is being used in their building. Yet, wouldn't it likely be considered very poor product from experienced vaper's perspective? If someone came onto ECF today saying they tried product that was equivalent of what the hospital would likely provide for free and concluded that vaping is not for them, wouldn't every vaper on ECF say try a different product? And not just any different product, but bigger/better set up. Yet, that's from person who is willing to have that dialogue. Instead, hospital could set up patients to try vaping only to realize it is not as effective at meeting their cravings for nicotine as smoking is. And leading them to desire to get back to smoking, even if it means they have to walk a few blocks to enjoy the product they know works for them.

Personally, I'd rather see well ventilatedroom set up for smoking and perhaps other room set up for vaping. Encourage cessation, and if that is resisted then direct to either of the two rooms using whatever the patient is willing to pay for. IMO, this would be most practical way to deal with things and to meet consumer with where they are at, while advocating where they could go if interested in how to approach the issue from medical perspective. But of course, there will be biases from various medical personnel as to which path is the most righteous during your short (or long) stay at the hospital.
 
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sofarsogood

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I know a smoker who had a hospital stay a year ago and was given an ecig by the hospitial which she used and they also encouraged her to use it to quit when she left the hospital. So this is happening but we aren't hearing about it. The journalists don't find it an intersting story or the enllightened hospitials worry they will be critiicized and pressured to stop the practice so they keep quiet.

This is a drug war. The government is the cartel and their snitches are everywhere.
 

DC2

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The idea of banning smoking ANYWHERE on the ENTIRE HOSPITAL CAMPUS is hideous.
But banning a harmless alternative (to bystanders) is so far beyond absurd that I can't find a word for it.

Seriously, not even in the parking lot?

The only things worse are banning smoking/vaping in mental wards...
Or in retirement homes...
Or in government housing...

Those that promulgate these types of regulations are heartless creatures.
That's all I have to say about that.
 

skoony

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@Jman8
I can see your concerns. If this makes any headway it would be a giant
boost to vaping overall.
I have said before if us vapers can win this fight it would open the door
to reviewing many decisions made in the past. Such as smoking and what
made them through formaldehyde under the bus.
Regards
Mike
 
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AndriaD

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The idea of banning smoking ANYWHERE on the ENTIRE HOSPITAL CAMPUS is hideous.
But banning a harmless alternative (to bystanders) is so far beyond absurd that I can't find a word for it.

Seriously, not even in the parking lot?

The only things worse are banning smoking/vaping in mental wards...
Or in retirement homes...
Or in government housing...

Those that promulgate these types of regulations are heartless creatures.
That's all I have to say about that.

Totally, 100% agree. Heartless sociopathic control-freak so-and-so's. I'd love to be there watching when THEIR karma comes home to roost.

Andria
 

sofarsogood

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Most of the news articles are about steps being taken by local governments and tax supported health related ngo's. (State and Federal level officials are mostly very quiet). Local decision makers have no interest in discussion on the merits. Perhaps the influence is the prospect of more favorable consideration for various State grants and subsidies that might decline if tobacco revenues decline or if local government don't treat ecigs harshly enough to satisfy state officials.
 

AndriaD

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Most of the news articles are about steps being taken by local governments and tax supported health related ngo's. (State and Federal level officials are mostly very quiet). Local decision makers have no interest in discussion on the merits. Perhaps the influence is the prospect of more favorable consideration for various State grants and subsidies that might decline if tobacco revenues decline or if local government don't treat ecigs harshly enough to satisfy state officials.

Is it really radical to think that an "ngo" has no business whatever being tax-supported????

Andria
 

sofarsogood

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Is it really radical to think that an "ngo" has no business whatever being tax-supported????

Andria
I run a local history museum (private, non profit, with a barely adequate endowment and NO government support of any kind and I volunteer). I like leading tours and I like making connections between back then and now. The museum is not beholden to any government entity for any money so we can say what's on our minds when we choose. Be sure those public health grunts can never do that. If any of them told the truth they'd ruin their careers.
 

CarolT

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I know a smoker who had a hospital stay a year ago and was given an ecig by the hospitial which she used and they also encouraged her to use it to quit when she left the hospital. So this is happening but we aren't hearing about it. The journalists don't find it an intersting story or the enllightened hospitials worry they will be critiicized and pressured to stop the practice so they keep quiet.

This is a drug war. The government is the cartel and their snitches are everywhere.
Where was this? Those are folks who charge $8 for an aspirin - how much did it cost?
 
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