More watts for wider coils?
- Thread starter Bonskibon
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Too much power for the flow mc as I mentioned before. I've got 3.2Ø 24g running a 17 dense ingredient in a 6 hole 360 RDA I run at 3.2V. Haven't changed the wick in almost a month. Just gotta give the juice what it needs.
Tensioned m.c.'s don't produce more gunk imo. The builder does
Proper oxidation's needed tho in a closed wind to keep wire temp stable and uniform. At least that's been my experience observing users who wind 'em. And I know instantly when I've failed by the diff in temp. It's significant. So I think gunk is proportional to the amount or extent of overheating and susceptible ingredients used regardless of wind. The great vape can be had with concentrated power.Must admit though tanks and the ST in particular is a challenge because you have a limited airflow and spread between the posts. That sets a top-end for wire temp in the tank beyond which you will gunk.
Do like Dampmaskin's suggestion of the mw/mm2 as a rough parameter for temp. We really don't have a popular understanding of how to express vape temperature in a practical sense. Using this index tho you can pretty much dial up a temp output that's fairly consistent regardless of your design wattage. That's to say, you target that surface temp output in consideration of your desired or optimal wattage. And that's constrained by available juice and matching airflow. It's not perfect but it works. So I have peeps I wind with that comfortably sample vape stuff I've put together like the above at 41W or more and it's comfortable warm vape for them, even as they're used to 15W at that same surface output. It's just at a greater vapor volume. And that's [24x2 10/9 3.2mmØ = 0..489Ω actually, sorry for the correction].
The great vape can be had with concentrated power.
Good luck.
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At .6 ohms, 2.6 V is about 11 watts, proved a small coil could be made with #26. Your 1.6 ohm coil is good for more like 30 watts, if you have the airflow etc. for it because it has that much more wire in it. So yes it wants more power because it's wider -- comparing to all else equal. So try something a little smaller with the same wire, or just a little smaller wire. #30 probably is going too far except if dual or twisted.
RE: gunk with TMC, probably could use another wrap to have closer working surface area, or just need to back down the power more. I did get the magic all-at-once dry burns with it, even rewicking, but liked it better after yanking on it a bit.... There's a lot of variables though incl. juice that make my methods nonscientific. I'll keep bouncing back and forth I expect.
Airflow is easy. t.m.c.'s will take as much as you can give 'em. Getting the right relationship with wicking is the real challenge, particularly with cotton. I've discovered this year that I've grossly underestimated the production potential of t.m.c.'s limiting much of my training with new vapers to smaller diameters. Now that I've settled down a bit to enjoy my own vape this year I've had more time to really look at how much power concentration demands of juice flow. And if you up the available liquid, there needs to be proportionately more air. I'd given up on large dia's in tanks with t.m.c.'s due a/f limits and that's now a whole new area of enjoyment my 2nd year into the subtank and similar with better air. So please don't view my remarks as any criticism. I've had my fair share of gunk and overheating experiences as everyone else. It's the nature of the beast.
Best of luck mc.
Enjoy the vape.p.s. This overdriven beast thrives at <20W producing redic density due to its power to wetted contact surface ratio. But you wanna talk about gunk, give it some volts.
Try to think of the coil as a single straight piece of wire of a given resistance, coiled to make it sufficiently compact to fit in your atomizer. A smaller internal diameter, more wraps, greater width. A larger internal diameter, less wraps, less width. The coil jig I have has 2, 2.5, 3 and 3.5mm bits so I'm limited to those internal diameters. Partial wraps are not possible, so this dictates to a certain degree your target resistance using whole wraps. I almost always use a 2.5mm internal diameter unless I'm building a really high resistance coil, or using a really small atomizer.
So for your example:
7 wraps of 30G with a 2mm internal diameter hits 1.7 omhs with a single coil (60mm total wire length)
or
5 wraps of 30G with a 3mm internal diameter hits 1.7 omhs with a single coil (60mm total wire length)
If you wanted to get this resistance with a dual coil you would need to use twice as much wire as doubling the coils halves the resistance. 12 wraps of 30G with a 2.5mm internal diameter 1.7 ohms (120mm total wire length). This would not be a good choice for 12 watts due to the quantity of wire.
I modeled all of this using steam-engine. Have a play and ask more questions if you need to.
Coil wrapping
Don't concern yourself with what the voltage is, the mod will take care of this calculation for you. Spaced, not spaced, it's subjective as to if it makes any difference in my opinion.
My method ended up being choose my airflow and build every thing else around that. I tried 2 different coils of far different size and still ended up with the power set exactly the same. The primary restriction is a narrow bore drip tip which I far prefer for flavor. One piece of evidence the drip tip, and not the airflow controller (about the same size), is the main restriction is that with high PG juice I can use a couple more tenths of a watt, because it produces less vapor to get out through the tip. I prefer a casual vaping style.
Yeah, there's a lot of possibilities for overlap with diff winds to the same res or temp target. All part of the fun and games. Like wicking, it can be as challenging to match air tho. Slotted or multi-hole designs have been a great help to allow a better focus on getting as much wire/wick capacity into the deck as useful (for our temp pref). My gen rule of thumb has been to match air hole and wind diameters as a starting point. This 3rd year I concluded that using wide bore DT and slipstream draws can radically aid in regulating vaporization and diffusion by graduating airflow velocity for some very nice effects. So I've become a big fan.
I came up in the eVic, Sigelei, etc. era. I can't help but think in terms of wattage. I've had to unlearn a lot to view the vape from diff dimensions. Dissecting steam-engine has helped me tremendously to look at and consider alternatives. To try to conceive of an index or approach that reflects the vapor, density and temperature outcome adequately for new vapers. It's a work in progress.
Some great remarks on this thread. You did a good one @Bonskibon.
Good luck.
p.s. The term slipstream (<-described here) was supposedly coined by some tube reviewer. We all did it rather absentmindedly as smokers to reg draw. It's a valuable tool when controlled in the vape. Would love to know who the reviewer was.
I FINALLY GOT IT!!!! Thanks to all the help in this thread this morning I took my time and wrapped 28g 2.4m about 7 wraps and got a nice cool comfortable vape at 10-12 watts. I learned sooooo much from the answers I got here and did a lot of number crunching on Steam Engine and reading other threads. I'm still not at a level where I totally understand how wire gauge, wraps, and diameter all work together, but I'm getting close. Thank you all!!
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Think of wire as pipe, electricity is water.
The bigger the pipe the lower the resistance. More water/electricity can flow.
Smaller has an adverse effect.
More parallel runs of the same size also lowers resistance.
The more times you coil or bend the pipe, the more it will resist flow. The longer the pipe/wire is, the more drag/resistance there is.
And it takes more power to heat bigger wire. The same is true for water in a pipe.
If you are trying to hit a target resistance and stepping up in wire size, you'll need to use a longer piece and thus more wraps. Since your coil has more atoms/molecules/weight it will take more electricity to vibrate/heat the coil to the same temperature.
The bigger the pipe the lower the resistance. More water/electricity can flow.
Smaller has an adverse effect.
More parallel runs of the same size also lowers resistance.
The more times you coil or bend the pipe, the more it will resist flow. The longer the pipe/wire is, the more drag/resistance there is.
And it takes more power to heat bigger wire. The same is true for water in a pipe.
If you are trying to hit a target resistance and stepping up in wire size, you'll need to use a longer piece and thus more wraps. Since your coil has more atoms/molecules/weight it will take more electricity to vibrate/heat the coil to the same temperature.
Visual aid helps me learn things. If I can get a mental picture of what's going on, it's easier for me to grasp.
I'm just glad you're using steam-engine.org
You have no idea how many people refuse to do that.
I'm just glad you're using steam-engine.org
You have no idea how many people refuse to do that.
I learn the same way and some of the posts on this thread have helped me develop a mental image and that was useful.
That's where I was only on the CCI Triforce. Coils are $5 online and some needed to be fixed by the buyer. But any other tank couldn't wick fast enough.
Started building after a month of vaping and I've been much happier. Some of the worst RTAs/RBAs can outperform the best pre-builts in the right hands.
Started building after a month of vaping and I've been much happier. Some of the worst RTAs/RBAs can outperform the best pre-builts in the right hands.
bon... it's a long assed read, but worth it, since the RBAs are same and there are whole pages you can skip
KangerTech SUBTANK Mini
btw I build with only kanthal claptons for mine, I sub, and I don't mind the slightly longer ramp up.. to me it's worth it for the better flavour. hubby complains about the delay, but then I pointed out the costs for his dessert juice habit... it's crickets now lol.
KangerTech SUBTANK Mini
btw I build with only kanthal claptons for mine, I sub, and I don't mind the slightly longer ramp up.. to me it's worth it for the better flavour. hubby complains about the delay, but then I pointed out the costs for his dessert juice habit... it's crickets now lol.
Been doing a lot of reading yesterday and will look over that thread as well, thank you. I had success this morning making my coils as I took my time and used thinner gauged wire. The information I was given and the reading I did has been extremely helpful in my understanding with wire, resistance, ohms and power and how they all work together.
EDIT: I went to the link you posted, that was the one I was reading the most yesterday. It's a great thread.
it's actually interesting, because it is the precursor to the toptank and the rba evolved as well through the posts... so reading from the start was the "oh wow it's new to, basic builds, figuring out what worked, which rbas and wicking etc... definitely improved my building for the 5 toptanks we share and the pro tanks.. since the pro rba is more of a throwback to the original rba that came with the subtank lol.
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