MTL with a 200w mod?

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BrundleFly

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Hi everyone, new here, I have to order a mod next saturday top for time reasons, like many others users, am struggeling with a doubt, this is if, say I buy a mod like the Smok G Priv or the Smok Procolor, that are in the 200w range and I put on it a tank and a coil more suited to mtl hits, would this affect or even damage the mod? Because, looking for a while on internet, I ve found that, based on mods way's to work, wouldnt hurt it using less requiring power coils keeping the stock tank, just in case, given the high wattage that the mod can reach and staying on proper watts limits when vaping). Some people would recommend a lower wattage mod or even a starter kit pen style device, but say I will move to DL in less than a year and with the proper configuration of watts, tank and coils so I still could do MTL for some more time or even swapping on both one day. Or using a Nautilus tank (there is a glass that would increase ml capacity to 4) or any good tank concibed to mtl on this juice capacity, a coil with the ohms for geting good taste and dense decent clouds to approaching the mtl effect, would this overheat the mod or someting alike?. And to go for dl, simply using the stock tank and coils (a Baby Big Beast of 4ml too and 2 sub ohms coils aimed purely to dl). Even nicer would be the option of using the stock tank and only change to 1.0 ohm and above coil, I imagine that the tank should work correctly with a smaller atomizer, fitting inside and allowing the same ml capacity more or less, shouldnt present a problem, 'cause a tank is at the end, only a glass container that supports a certain amount of heat degrees based on maximal wattage use. Finally, I think am a rare type of mtl user, given that I really need a large amount of vapor, even if it goes only to mouth first, with some low power, 30w starter kits and do enjoy the flavour, but not enought vapor IMO, but not looking to cloud chaser level neither. I think, if this config is possible to carry on without damaging or overheating the device, I would vape on the 75w and 150w top, but majority of 150w mods have fixed battery or supports small juice capacity tanks. So what do you think? If am wrong with some concepts, please let me know to better understand, if am correct, please do too, to securely choose a device then...Any ideas will be welcome, thanks a lot to everybody and sorry for the somehow complex question. Happy vaping.
 
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Tonee N

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Hello and Welcome.
Going with a dual 18650 200w mod as you are asking normally runs coils from 0.1-3.0 resistance so it would not be overkill for your coils and would be great for battery life paired with a good married set of batteries.
Once you go to DTL you'll already have a mod capable of running the Sub Ohm coils.
Hth

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BrundleFly

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Thank you Tonee M for that quick reply, yeah, I was figuring out but I ve asked anyway because many people warns to stay away from those mods if one is used to mtl vaping. Kind of meaning that could be a very different experience with no satisfaction at all or directly over or sub demand the device if used with mtl accsesories. Only concern, even if the config is possible as you said, is if the mod will really perform well... it should at least. And your point is the good one, battery life to recharge them once every two days with a 4ml tank would be optimal. Thanks again.
 
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stols001

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I use MTL tanks on two battery mods all the time. If you purchase a 200 watt mod, the higher end won't affect you, as long as the mod fires watts low enough to "power" your MTL tank, but at 30 watts that shouldn't be a problem. You are correct, you can get a DL tank to put on there as well, so it will be more versatile and you'll have longer battery life. What really matters with mods/tanks is that you have the right connector for the tank and mod, but most everyone is using 510 pins these days, so unless you get something major exotic, I don't think you'll have issues with that, either.

Best of luck,

Anna
 

Coastal Cowboy

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I have a Pico Dual 200 with a Kanger Subtank Mini, running about 18 Watts with the 1.2 OCC stock coil and 12mg liquid.

The two Samsung 25R batteries last for days.

Whenever I want, I can swap out the tank for a Baby Beast with a 0.4 ohm coil, crank up the wattage to 70+ Watts and get a lungs-full cloud of 6mg vapor.

But I'm going to trade battery life, coil life and liquid use to do that.

Versatility is good. But there are tradeoffs.
 

djsvapour

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I use MTL tanks on two battery mods all the time.

You are crazy!

So am I. :eek:

I also MTL on 200w box mods. I also DTL as well.

The thing is @BrundleFly you are partly right in your comment.
I was figuring out but I've asked anyway because many people warns to stay away from those mods if one is used to mtl vaping.

...but for that comment to be sort of true, you also need to talk about the type of tank, perhaps bought as a kit.

Vape on. You can vape the small stuff on the big boys toys... and the girls as well @stols001

:)
 

BrotherBob

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Finally, I think am a rare type of mtl user, given that I really need a large amount of vapor, even if it goes only to mouth first, with some low power,
Welcome and glad you joined.
Looks like you will have to push the limits of vaping scalability. The relationship between power and vapor may require you to balance the two to your particular desires.
In General lower ohm coils/higher wattage vaping will:
Produce More Vapor
Drain The Battery Faster by using more power.
 

BrundleFly

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Very nice people in here, I thank each one of you for sharing your ideas to solve this kind of equation in order to stop tobbaco use, even being a smoker, I hate what cigarretes have become in time, a bad smelling cylinder full of poison, that becomes a nightmare for millions, after adiction has achieved its purpose...But the fight in on and going. Anna, Cowboy and Brother, you ve hit the point indeed, DjsVapour, the tank I mentioned is the one thta comes with many Smok mods today, the Big Baby subohm, 4ml and the idea is being able to use that one and another tank, like a Nautilus or Triton (hopefully with 4ml capacity or above, but not miserable 2ml that would last me half a day) more aimed to taste a good flavour, that could go to some 12mg nic max too, allowing a mtl drag as closer as it can gets, to let my organism love the stuff. I remember the first starter kit was a VapeOnly Aura ( VapeOnly Aura Express Kit 2000mAh ), with an exceptional good mouthpiece, like flute shaped, with a fixed 2000 mAh that went to, i believe, to some 53w, that ressembled to 75w power 'cause the clouds, even coming from a mtl drag, were big and dense enough. Flavour good too, very tasty. But it leaked a lot, so I brought a Kanger Evod pro v2 ( Kanger EVOD PRO V2 Review - All-in-One e-Cig Mod, 2500mAh, 30W ), no leaks at all, never, but I didnt realize it was a 30w max device and it was a very big difference between sensations. So I guess my range would be around 75 and 120/150 top, mtl-dtl respectively. Now that the mod doubt itself is gone, any ideas concerning a good, big capacity mtl tank and a calculated coil in ohms and max wattage for this tank, would be damn useful, 'cause finding a tank like that is a bit hard. Thanks again fellas, happy vaping!
 
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suprtrkr

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HI and welcome. No problem at all so long as the machine will fire the coil you want-- shouldn't be a problem, most of them go up to 3Ω-- and can be set for the watts you want. Not to discourage you-- I vape at 30ish watts on 2 and 3 battery mods all the time-- but that can be a load if you intend to carry it around when a single battery mod would do the job. For my part, I usually use the big mods at home and carry one battery mods, both regulated and mechanical, to work and out and about. Perhaps you really need two mods; a 200W job for home and a 60ish one for running around. I can assure you, to a person used to 30 watts, 60 gets pretty cloudy given appropriate coils.
 

BrundleFly

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Thank you Suprtrkr, excelent hint...getting closer to the proper kit. Say I ll do 70w with the mod, what ohms should the coil be aprox? And if you can provide me the info, what wattage should not be exceeded if using a a 1.0 or 2.0 coils? I know there are some ohms calculators for that matter but your opinion would be maybe more practical based on your experience...Yeah, a 1 battery device should be optimal, but there are not so many models out there, as 2 or even 3 battery devices offered today compared to fixed one bat. The Smok G150 ( G150 - SMOK® Innovation keeps changing the vaping experience! ) seems perfect, nice looking dude who fires up to 150w, but with that limitation, in fact there are two 18650/4000 mAh batts fixed inside, if I recall correctly. If that one would be external bat system, I ll order it right now. But when batteries die, goodbye mod...but not for a technician, who could probably replace them, involving soldering and all that stuff. Thanks pal, cheers.
 
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suprtrkr

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Thank you Suprtrkr, excelent hint...getting closer to the proper kit. Say I ll do 70w with the mod, what ohms should the coil be aprox? And if you can provide me the info, what wattage should not be exceeded if using a a 1.0 or 2.0 coils? I know there are some ohms calculators for that matter but your opinion would be maybe more practical based on your experience...Yeah, a 1 battery device should be optimal, but there are not so many models out there, as 2 or even 3 battery devices offered today compared to fixed one bat. The Smok G150 ( G150 - SMOK® Innovation keeps changing the vaping experience! ) seems perfect, nice looking dude who fires up to 150w, but with that limitation, in fact there are two 18650/4000 mAh batts fixed inside, if I recall correctly. If that one would be external bat system, I ll order it right now. But when batteries die, goodbye mod...but not for a technician, who could probably replace them, involving soldering and all that stuff. Thanks pal, cheers.

Assuming you are not (yet) a coil builder, I suggest you take a glance at the manufacturer's rating for the coil and not exceed it. I further suggest you recall manufacturers are in the business of selling coils as well as tanks and discount that "maximum" rating a bit, since they won't have any problems selling you a new one when you burn out the old one. Bear in mind also you can't get in trouble running a coil below its regulated wattage, although it might not get hot enough to make decent vapor depending on what you have.

I am a coil builder-- exclusively, I don't use pre-fabs any more-- so my advice regarding coils for watts may not work well for you regarding factory coils. For 70 watts, I wouldn't be above .5Ω, and even then I'd be using 12 or 15 wraps of some pretty hefty wire. Given you will be using a regulated mod, it will be pretty hard to get into trouble though. The worst that will happen is you will fry the coil; you are unlikely to blow yourself up as you might with a mehcanical. For a regulated mod, you also can't go too low so long as the mod will fire it, so you can go down to .15Ω or so, whatever is the minimum the mod you choose will work with. Try not to get the absolute bare minimum coil value. The Ohmmeters built into mods are notoriously inaccurate and you might get a perfectly good coil your mod "thinks" is too low to fire. Give yourself some breathing room.

For your 1.0 and 2.0Ω examples. I'd probably be in the 10-12 watt range on the former and not above 10-- maybe 8-- on the latter. With a tall coil like that, we know they're using tiny thin wire as it's the only way to pack that much resistance into something the size of a coil.

The problem with overpowering coils is the wire used, and we don't know what the manufacturers are using. They will say what kind of wire-- Kanthal, Stainless, NiCr, whatever-- because they have to with all the TC mods out there, and they will give an Ohm value, but they never say "22ga SS316, 8 full wraps on a 2mm mandrel" or anything like, so we really can't figure out the heat capacity of their wire bundle save by trial and error. Because of this, I can't really give you a "do not exceed" value for any specific coil. Neither have I any built up store of empirical evidence to offer, as a person who regularly uses such coils might; one of whom, hopefully, will stumble across this and offer their opinion. Remember also coils are made thousands per hour on automated machinery, and Chinese QC has a ways to go to equal US QC. You can expect some variance in factory coils, and further expect the occasional complete dud. (Which is also why I build mine. Building has its own problems, but it doesn't have those problems.)

The purpose of that coil wire is to "waste" electrical power into resistance, thereby generating heat. Heat is good, that's what vaporizes e-juice. Too much heat is bad, though. Coils generally fail in two ways. One, the wire might break, meaning it no longer makes a circuit and it stops working. Two, the wick might burn (before or after plugging up from too much sweetness in the juice) and thereafter taste too foul to vape even if it still works. Too much power for the coil can occasion a type 1 failure: the wire heats up so much it exceeds its melting point, or softens and breaks from the tension it was wound under. That much heat also probably burnt the wick too, but you won't know because the coil doesn't work with a broken wire and you can't taste what it vapes like.

A type 2 failure is usually juice related. The sweetness in the juice caramelizes in the wick from the heat in the coil. This eventually plugs the wick so it won't wick any more. Once it won't wick, as soon as you fire it dry, there it goes. How long this takes can't be accurately predicted either, but more sweet and dark color in the juice, plus more watts on the coil, all shorten coil life.

I know, from reading, many people like the Smok Baby Beast tank, and it has coils that can be vaped from 30ish out to 300+ watts, according to the literature. You might want to take a look at that one.

And when you're ready to learn coil building I, or any number of others, will be happy to teach you.
 

Grimwald

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2 points.
1. In your case, just make sure the mod can go low enough. For example, an old Protank might only need 6-7 watts but some mods won't go that low.

2. Many modern tanks just can't be made into mtl tanks. You can build 1-2 ohm coils, put on a narrow mouthpiece and turn the airflow and watts way down...and still blow your face off.
 

ChelsB

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Assuming you are not (yet) a coil builder, I suggest you take a glance at the manufacturer's rating for the coil and not exceed it. I further suggest you recall manufacturers are in the business of selling coils as well as tanks and discount that "maximum" rating a bit, since they won't have any problems selling you a new one when you burn out the old one. Bear in mind also you can't get in trouble running a coil below its regulated wattage, although it might not get hot enough to make decent vapor depending on what you have.

I am a coil builder-- exclusively, I don't use pre-fabs any more-- so my advice regarding coils for watts may not work well for you regarding factory coils. For 70 watts, I wouldn't be above .5Ω, and even then I'd be using 12 or 15 wraps of some pretty hefty wire. Given you will be using a regulated mod, it will be pretty hard to get into trouble though. The worst that will happen is you will fry the coil; you are unlikely to blow yourself up as you might with a mehcanical. For a regulated mod, you also can't go too low so long as the mod will fire it, so you can go down to .15Ω or so, whatever is the minimum the mod you choose will work with. Try not to get the absolute bare minimum coil value. The Ohmmeters built into mods are notoriously inaccurate and you might get a perfectly good coil your mod "thinks" is too low to fire. Give yourself some breathing room.

For your 1.0 and 2.0Ω examples. I'd probably be in the 10-12 watt range on the former and not above 10-- maybe 8-- on the latter. With a tall coil like that, we know they're using tiny thin wire as it's the only way to pack that much resistance into something the size of a coil.

The problem with overpowering coils is the wire used, and we don't know what the manufacturers are using. They will say what kind of wire-- Kanthal, Stainless, NiCr, whatever-- because they have to with all the TC mods out there, and they will give an Ohm value, but they never say "22ga SS316, 8 full wraps on a 2mm mandrel" or anything like, so we really can't figure out the heat capacity of their wire bundle save by trial and error. Because of this, I can't really give you a "do not exceed" value for any specific coil. Neither have I any built up store of empirical evidence to offer, as a person who regularly uses such coils might; one of whom, hopefully, will stumble across this and offer their opinion. Remember also coils are made thousands per hour on automated machinery, and Chinese QC has a ways to go to equal US QC. You can expect some variance in factory coils, and further expect the occasional complete dud. (Which is also why I build mine. Building has its own problems, but it doesn't have those problems.)

The purpose of that coil wire is to "waste" electrical power into resistance, thereby generating heat. Heat is good, that's what vaporizes e-juice. Too much heat is bad, though. Coils generally fail in two ways. One, the wire might break, meaning it no longer makes a circuit and it stops working. Two, the wick might burn (before or after plugging up from too much sweetness in the juice) and thereafter taste too foul to vape even if it still works. Too much power for the coil can occasion a type 1 failure: the wire heats up so much it exceeds its melting point, or softens and breaks from the tension it was wound under. That much heat also probably burnt the wick too, but you won't know because the coil doesn't work with a broken wire and you can't taste what it vapes like.

A type 2 failure is usually juice related. The sweetness in the juice caramelizes in the wick from the heat in the coil. This eventually plugs the wick so it won't wick any more. Once it won't wick, as soon as you fire it dry, there it goes. How long this takes can't be accurately predicted either, but more sweet and dark color in the juice, plus more watts on the coil, all shorten coil life.

I know, from reading, many people like the Smok Baby Beast tank, and it has coils that can be vaped from 30ish out to 300+ watts, according to the literature. You might want to take a look at that one.

And when you're ready to learn coil building I, or any number of others, will be happy to teach you.

This is definitely one of the more informative posts I've read on this subject. Great job!
 

BrundleFly

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Awesome reply Suprtrkr, thanks for the time you took to write such a helpful response, really. I didnt mention it from the begining, but besides the mod kit I ll order, there is a toolkit from coilmaster and some rba heads, yeah, I ve had planned too, I have no experience whatsoever in coiling and wicking, but I do work in electronics pretty much and following the steps carefully, I should get it with some patience and experimenting. The basic understanding of how the coil heats and vaporizes is clear, now the different formulas and balance between components is the step that should follow. Even so, there are many concepts I ll have to learn eventually. As you said, becoming a coil buider and, hopefully, a druid to make our own juice would save a coffin of money in the long term and I have to thank that possiblity exists in this vaping world, 'cause it gave the people, the option to stop depending on abusive commerce trading with disposable components (in a fair level at least) as it is with infinite other things in the world that we can't rebuild or repare ourselves, forcing us to buy and buy constantly. That mixed with altruist people like you, makes it possible, my friend. Everything now is much more clear, I ll go for the Smok Procolor mod, given the good reviews on it, almost everywhere I ve looked, not for its 220w (I would never get to use that power anyway), but for the dual external battery system, normal size for the hand and the good looking info screen, concerning the fancy colour leds and not being touchscreen, isnt important at all IMO. An external charger from Nitecore with a pair of 25R included, another additional pair, the coilmaster toolkit with 521 mini tab, coil, cotton and tools included, at least two rba heads, one for mtl aimed coils and one for dtl intended, finally one big bottle of some juice. Do you think am in the right path buying this set to start? Once delivered to me, if is not trouble for you, I ll ask you in the process other questions to avoid blowing my face off, as Grimwald stated...loll! Honestly, many many thanks Suprtrkr, for your time and invaluable help...if you or anybody else reading this post, have any suggestion concerning the set im planning to order, please feel free to advise me, thanks to all of you who helped in this topic here, cheers!
 
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NicotineRush

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Seems like a 'no brainer' but make sure the tank will 'fit' the mod. I just learned the hard way on that. I wasn't paying attention and my new OBS Nano, (25mm), wouldn't fit on my new Pico Mega. Had to buy another mod.

@suprtrkr : One of the most informative replies I've ever read. Concise and extremely helpful.
 

Tonee N

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I didnt mention it from the begining, but besides the mod kit I ll order, there is a toolkit from coilmaster and some rba heads, I ll go for the Smok Procolor mod, given the good reviews on it, the coilmaster toolkit with 521

fd4ae13ae0c44a4797fa3798d88ea283.jpg

[emoji106]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

Izan

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Awesome reply Suprtrkr, thanks for the time you took to write such a helpful response, really. I didnt mention it from the begining, but besides the mod kit I ll order, there is a toolkit from coilmaster and some rba heads, yeah, I ve had planned too, I have no experience at all in coiling and wicking whatshowever, but I do work in electronics pretty much and following the steps carefully, I should get it with some patience and experimenting. The basic understanding of how the coil heats and vaporizes is clear, now the different formulas and balance between components is the step that should follow. Even so, there are many concepts I ll have to learn eventually. As you said, becoming a coil buider and, hopefully, a druid to make our own juice would save a coffin of money in the long term and I have to thank that possiblity exists in this vaping world, 'cause it gave the people, the option to stop depending on abusive commerce trading with disposable components (in a fair level at least) as it is with infinite other things in the world that we can't rebuild or repare ourselves, forcing us to buy and buy constantly. That mixed with altruist people like you, makes it possible, my friend. Everything now is much more clear, I ll go for the Smok Procolor mod, given the good reviews on it, almost everywhere I ve looked, not for its 220w (I would never get to use that power anyway), but for the dual external battery system, normal size for the hand and the good looking info screen, concerning the fancy colour leds and not being touchscreen, isnt important at all IMO. An external charger from Nitecore with a pair of 25R included, another additional pair, the coilmaster toolkit with 521 mini tab, coil, cotton and tools included, at least two rba heads, one for mtl aimed coils and one for dtl intended, finally one big bottle of some juice. Do you think am in the right path buying this set to start? Once delivered to me, if is not trouble for you, I ll ask you in the process other questions to avoid blowing my face off, as Grimwald stated...loll! Honestly, many many thanks Suprtrkr, for your time and invaluable help...if you or anybody else reading this post, have any suggestion concerning the set im planning to order, please feel free to advise me, thanks to all of you who helped in this topic here, cheers!
Hi and welcome,

Buy quality BRANDED batteries from a trusted vendor.
mooch2017.jpg


The 25R's will be fine for 60watts each. so 2 X 25r's will let you fire your device safely up to about 120watts.
bats.jpg



Cheers
I
 

BrundleFly

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Yeah, exactly...that's it
Hi and welcome,

Buy quality BRANDED batteries from a trusted vendor.
View attachment 682949

The 25R's will be fine for 60watts each. so 2 X 25r's will let you fire your device safely up to about 120watts.
View attachment 682951


Cheers
I
Thank you Izan, interesting note too, about nicotine propaganda...nicotine only is even healthy for certain mental disorders among other things. Forgot to ask, what happen exactly if I go higher in watts with that battery type, the 25R for example? I mean, will the mod be damaged or will blow or make venting the batteries? I though mods had some kind of protection against these situations, be over the mod itself or the batteries directly. If not the case, the mod would need some type of automatic wattage level locking, if detected voltage batteries is not enough for the device maximal power...correct me if am wrong please, thanks again.
 
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