Muted flavors w/ SS mesh

[error406]

Greetings ECF, not sure if this is the place to put this but the header recommends to post here first so here goes.

After being taught by a friend how to setup and use a APV I made the switch to using SS mesh after knowing how great the flavor is compared to cotton. Went through countless Youtube videos learning how to setup a SS mesh wick and also countless wire and juice , I still can't get the flavor and throat hit to really shine through.

Below is my current setup.
RDA: Hobo 3.1
Wire: Ni80
Gauge: 0.4 mm
ID: 2.5 mm
Coil warps: 6
Ohm: .66~.73 (depends on how much I cocked up when installing the coil)
Mesh: #400

The coil is set almost vertical so the thing looks like a gene build.
Things I've checked: Coil glows evenly from the centre out. Made sure there's no hot spots after installing with voltage ranging from 3.2~3.7, also double checked by dripping a few drops of pure VG onto the wick and firing till dry to make sure new hot spots doesn't appear after a few hits.
Only minor difference is that after rolling the wick I unwrap it and roll it from the other side, so that the initial outer side becomes the inside of the wick, and the initial outer side is now the centre of the wick, as I find it keeps the shape better than just rolling it once.

After setting the whole thing up and vaping it, it produces vape fine, but the flavor is simply not there, even after going through 10 ml of juice.

 

[Txaggiesaunt]

Never could get to where I liked mesh wicks.

 

[Opinionated]

Greetings ECF, not sure if this is the place to put this but the header recommends to post here first so here goes.

After being taught by a friend how to setup and use a APV I made the switch to using SS mesh after knowing how great the flavor is compared to cotton. Went through countless Youtube videos learning how to setup a SS mesh wick and also countless wire and juice , I still can't get the flavor and throat hit to really shine through.

Below is my current setup.
RDA: Hobo 3.1
Wire: Ni80
Gauge: 0.4 mm
ID: 2.5 mm
Coil warps: 6
Ohm: .66~.73 (depends on how much I cocked up when installing the coil)
Mesh: #400

The coil is set almost vertical so the thing looks like a gene build.
Things I've checked: Coil glows evenly from the centre out. Made sure there's no hot spots after installing with voltage ranging from 3.2~3.7, also double checked by dripping a few drops of pure VG onto the wick and firing till dry to make sure new hot spots doesn't appear after a few hits.
Only minor difference is that after rolling the wick I unwrap it and roll it from the other side, so that the initial outer side becomes the inside of the wick, and the initial outer side is now the centre of the wick, as I find it keeps the shape better than just rolling it once.

After setting the whole thing up and vaping it, it produces vape fine, but the flavor is simply not there, even after going through 10 ml of juice.

Did you torch your mesh before using it?

 

[error406]

Did you torch your mesh before using it?

Yes, all SS mesh was first taken to the stove and burned till it's red, then quenched in distilled water before use.

 

[Opinionated]

Yes, all SS mesh was first taken to the stove and burned till it's red, then quenched in distilled water before use.

So then you need to build a regular coil with it and wick with organic Japanese cotton.. I use the Japanese cotton and really enjoy the flavor of my juice. Most people use it..

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Seriously.. just walk away from metal mesh.. metal on metal, particles, even tiny metal part shards could end up inhaled... plus oxidation, etc. that is one thing I would never recommend anyone using.

With cotton or other fibrous material, you get some filtration, cooling, etc.

And cotton might have a taste for the breaking-in of several puffs, but if you use good stuff, it will be gone fast and the whole flavour then depends on airflow, coil location and built, tank/RDA design, type of metal wire used, and settings.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Recommendations:

1) switch to SS
2) play with location of coil against airflow
3) if you're going with high VG, use stuff with a bit more PG (flavour carrier)
4) stop dry-burning the coils, sounds like you're lighting your room with it... never go more than the most minimal glow, just enough to see hot spots, no more.. you're messing up and oxidizing the metal.
5) do spaced coils.
6) switch to TC mode
7) get a better RDA.. didn't even know this RDA, so looked it up, it's ancient and I can tell that the airflow sucks just by the pictures and video I just looked at, I'm surprised that you're not tasting anything but pennies with that thing.

Another note about metal mesh.. metal and liquids tend to interact, so you might be neutralizing the flavouring even before it hits the coil.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Basically when doing a build.. you have to "choose" either build for clouds, or for flavour.

 

[error406]

Recommendations:

1) switch to SS
2) play with location of coil against airflow
3) if you're going with high VG, use stuff with a bit more PG (flavour carrier)
4) stop dry-burning the coils, sounds like you're lighting your room with it... never go more than the most minimal glow, just enough to see hot spots, no more.. you're messing up and oxidizing the metal.
5) do spaced coils.
6) switch to TC mode
7) get a better RDA.. didn't even know this RDA, so looked it up, it's ancient and I can tell that the airflow sucks just by the pictures and video I just looked at, I'm surprised that you're not tasting anything but pennies with that thing.

Another note about metal mesh.. metal and liquids tend to interact, so you might be neutralizing the flavouring even before it hits the coil.

1. It's already stated it's SS mesh, don't know where you saw that I said it was regular metal mesh.
2. Tried it, got it as close to the air hole as possible, also tried small air flow, large air flow.
3. Wicks fine w/ pure VG, can take chain hits w/o a dry hit; tho I do gravitate towards Malay juice since it's easier to purchase here (which is high on PG)
4. Takes a couple of seconds for the coil to glow at 3.7 volts, just enough to check for hot spots, but hot spots are not the problem I'm facing, been through that stage in the past and know what a hot spot tastes like when taking a hit.
5. Can't be done w/ me jig .
6. Don't have access to TC wires where I'm at.
7. It works fine when running dual coil w/ cotton, but the heat capacity is a bit high for my liking.

 

[error406]

Basically when doing a build.. you have to "choose" either build for clouds, or for flavour.

Chose flavor a long time ago, hence the post asking why there is little flavor, and how to rectify the problem I'm facing.

 

[error406]

So then you need to build a regular coil with it and wick with organic Japanese cotton.. I use the Japanese cotton and really enjoy the flavor of my juice. Most people use it..

Even w/ Koh Gen Do cotton there is always a cotton taste to it that I can't ignore, and the N1 N2 cotton pads is out of my price range. Hence the switch to SS mesh.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

1. It's already stated it's SS mesh, don't know where you saw that I said it was regular metal mesh.
2. Tried it, got it as close to the air hole as possible, also tried small air flow, large air flow.
3. Wicks fine w/ pure VG, can take chain hits w/o a dry hit; tho I do gravitate towards Malay juice since it's easier to purchase here (which is high on PG)
4. Takes a couple of seconds for the coil to glow at 3.7 volts, just enough to check for hot spots, but hot spots are not the problem I'm facing, been through that stage in the past and know what a hot spot tastes like when taking a hit.
5. Can't be done w/ me jig .
6. Don't have access to TC wires where I'm at.
7. It works fine when running dual coil w/ cotton, but the heat capacity is a bit high for my liking.

1) I was stating about the wire, the coil.
2) it's not "as close" it's about maximizing the airflow to go around the coil
3) it's not about how it wicks, it's about PG is the flavour carrier
4) it's not about hot spots, it's about you deteriorating the coil's metal by overheating it, which affects it's composition
5) spaced coils are easily done with any tool used to roll the wraps, all that's needed is to pull the wraps (stretch them out) and push back together, and most wire will "spring" out and leave balanced spacing between the wraps.
6) if you can get NI80, you should be able to get SS316L
7) it does not work "fine" as you think if you aren't able to get a good experience, I had many RDAs that "worked", but didn't provide a good experience as per other ones that I actually like. The way they are built, the position of the posts, the airflow holes, etc. can make a difference.

Unless we know where you are or at least how much access to materials you have, it's a bit hard to guide you well.

Even w/ Koh Gen Do cotton there is always a cotton taste to it that I can't ignore, and the N1 N2 cotton pads is out of my price range. Hence the switch to SS mesh.

From brand to brand of cotton there can be a bit of differences...

There's also the chance that you have vapor's tongue that makes you numb to the flavouring, which means that you can't taste much of anything while you vape.... this is "cured" with various method.. either lemon, vinegar, strong coffee, using menthol, using non flavoured liquid for a few days.

 

[Opinionated]

Even w/ Koh Gen Do cotton there is always a cotton taste to it that I can't ignore, and the N1 N2 cotton pads is out of my price range. Hence the switch to SS mesh.

Are you removing both the top and the bottom layer from the cotton pad before wicking? when you do, you only get a cotton taste for the first couple of drags then it's gone, it's that single heavier weight outer layer of cotton that causes it.

Here is a video on making a spaced coil without a jig. kayfun spaced coil build organic Japanese cotton - Bing video

Resistance wire comes in different types, kanthal nickle titanium and stainless steel. It's the resistance wire that needs to be stainless steel, according to the above poster, NOT the wicking material. He isn't talking about your wicking, he's talking about your resistance wire.

I assume your in either Malaysia or Indonesia? If so just know that resistance wire is used in heating and cooling applications, and so there should be somewhere in your country that carries some various types of resistance wire. Stainless steel resistance wire most people say has a much cleaner taste..

Personally, I've never tried it as I don't do temperature control and haven't have a problem with the way my juice tastes.. I can taste it just fine.

I agree with the above poster when he said your build has more to do with the flavor your getting from your juice than your wicking does. What gauge wire, how you space or don't space your coils, what kind of wire you use, have more to do with flavor than the wicking itself. Wicking is only a small part of flavor.

When I first started building the flavor was so muted in comparison to my factory coil.. but when I made the one simple change of what gauge resistance wire I was using that problem was all fixed. I wasted money buying all manner of wicking possible to try, when all I had to do was make one change in what gauge wire I was using..

If I were you, I would change the way I'm building my coils, go for a normal spaced coil, using what you have, use Japanese cotton with the outer layers removed, and try a 24 or 26 gauge stainless steel wire. I would bet if you do, most of you problems will be solved.

Other than that, the only other thing you can do to get a better flavor is to get a better, more modern RDA.. if you can. But, some of the older devices weren't too terribly bad, you just have to experiment a lot with how your building to come to that rda's full potential, but once you reach any rdas full potential, that's the best you will ever get with that particular rda.. but I daresay, you have not even begun to reach your particular rdas full potential yet.. because you aren't building in the more modern method which has been found to be far superior in flavor.

 

[error406]

Knew I should've added some back story lol, my bad.

Vaping isn't really much of a hobby, more of a side thing that keeps the excessive drinking of hard liquor at bay, and it's doing a pretty good job so far, been sober for close to two years now.
That's why I'm using what appears to most vapers as working w/ very little and out dated gear.
I do expect on obtaining a new atomizer in the near future, now that I have a decent bearing on what I like and don't like.

For the SS mesh wick...
Had much success with single coil cotton, dual coil cotton, single coil SS mesh wick and dual coil SS mesh wick on another RDA in the past. The walls of said RDA was quite thick and had a very large pull, close to that of a jaw cap, so heat capacity doesn't appear that bad when in use...or so i thought until I noticed parts of PEEK has cracked and partiality melted right below where the coil.
And yes, the top and bottom layer were always pulled off before use, and wicked w/ the Scottish roll method when using cotton.

As for premature deteriorate of the wick due to dry burning...
Wouldn't stress about it too much, installed a #500 SS mesh wick and checked for hot spots w/ a mech mod in the past, and used it w/ the mech mod for close to a month before the wick starts to wear down. Sometime after getting a regulated mod, I pull the wick out for inspection during every other dry burn and know what to expect when a SS mesh starts to deteriorate.

 

[BrotherBob]

Greetings ECF, not sure if this is the place to put this but the header recommends to post here first so here goes.

After being taught by a friend how to setup and use a APV I made the switch to using SS mesh after knowing how great the flavor is compared to cotton. Went through countless Youtube videos learning how to setup a SS mesh wick and also countless wire and juice , I still can't get the flavor and throat hit to really shine through.
Below is my current setup.
RDA: Hobo 3.1
Wire: Ni80
Gauge: 0.4 mm
ID: 2.5 mm
Coil warps: 6
Ohm: .66~.73 (depends on how much I cocked up when installing the coil)
Mesh: #400
The coil is set almost vertical so the thing looks like a gene build.
Things I've checked: Coil glows evenly from the centre out. Made sure there's no hot spots after installing with voltage ranging from 3.2~3.7, also double checked by dripping a few drops of pure VG onto the wick and firing till dry to make sure new hot spots doesn't appear after a few hits.
Only minor difference is that after rolling the wick I unwrap it and roll it from the other side, so that the initial outer side becomes the inside of the wick, and the initial outer side is now the centre of the wick, as I find it keeps the shape better than just rolling it once.
After setting the whole thing up and vaping it, it produces vape fine, but the flavor is simply not there, even after going through 10 ml of juice.

Welcome and glad you joined. Mesh can be real problematic.
Might like to read:
Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

 

[Chakris]

Looks like you have some good advice already - I'm just chiming in to say that I haven't used mesh in ages and wouldn't be much help and to recommend one of the newer models. They've come a long way since mesh.

 

[batteredwombat]

Seriously.. just walk away from metal mesh.. metal on metal, particles, even tiny metal part shards could end up inhaled... plus oxidation, etc. that is one thing I would never recommend anyone using.

With cotton or other fibrous material, you get some filtration, cooling, etc.

And cotton might have a taste for the breaking-in of several puffs, but if you use good stuff, it will be gone fast and the whole flavour then depends on airflow, coil location and built, tank/RDA design, type of metal wire used, and settings.

Yes, use your mesh to polish stuff with

 

[Bad Ninja]

Its the atomizer.
In my experience the Hobo doesn't play well with mesh wicks. Its tiny and not alot of room.
I only use mesh in Genesis type attys.

You should build your coils first, install them, fire them, check them, then install the rolled mesh.
You won't bugger the coils.

 

[Dieseler]

When i used ss mesh 500 it was in MMvapors DID20 genesis Diy 96 to 97%pg as vg does not agree with me.
The airhole on cap was always inline with the wick when screwed down they were made this way and the vape was flavorful and the tank could not leak at all due to its design.
My bottom of wick would be cut at a 45 degree angle and hollow when rolled.
Still have several DID'S and many 8x12 sheets of ss500 mesh for rainy day.

Just got tired of cleaning wick which was done by removal running under water and and re seasoned on stove top then a rewire which was with kanthal wire. Like you i could always tell with the vape if there was a hot spot and fixed it.
Not sure how the flavor would be with vg though as it simply does not agree with me.

Nowadays i just use clr coil heads in a pico-s which is my perfect vape and tank does not leak despite what some may say as i learned to put a gasket under its clr adapter cap as this device comes with no instructions.
Good luck .
Sizing for fit an unseasoned wick, notice the angle cut of wick on bottom which gives more space than a flat cut for e-liquid flow upwards via a hollow rolled wick.

 

[error406]

Alright, finally got them both to cooperate.
End result was to swing the positive post around so that it's at a 90 degree angle to the negative post, placed the coil right under the drip tip and tilted at a 45 degree angle, so when vaping and the devise is tilted the mesh is almost standing vertically.
Although when vaping pure VG the sweetness really stands out...still leaves room wanting for more, guess the urge can only be quenched when purchasing a new RDA lol.

Anyway, cheers all.