Wow you're such a tough guy dude.
To be honest, I don't really get people like you, but the feeling is probably mutual so let's keep it at that.My Public Vaping Ethos.
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To be honest, I don't really get people like you, but the feeling is probably mutual so let's keep it at that.
When you "tout" yourself as having what you call "impulse control" as you did in this post (below) about public vaping, then you are doing just that. And your little game of "semantics" doesn't change your intent to infer others should vape as you do:
I have not found where YOUR definition of "impulse control" is the one all humans must agree with and follow. Judging others by YOUR definition of "impulse control" is simply inflexible arrogance. YOU are using the term "impulse control" as it relates to how others vape in public. YOU are stating they need psychological counseling based on how you define the term.
Unless you can prove that you are an accredited Psychologist or Psychiatrist, stating that those who don't vape publicly in a manner that meets your definition of "impulse control" and thus, need counseling, is simply judgemental arrogance.
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By the same token, a lot of the people that think that way "look" like reasonable people.
Do some actual research into the way the wool was pulled over people's eyes on second-hand smoke. It's maybe 1/100th as bad as the lies and propaganda made it out to be. But the lies, exaggerations, and bad science have now become "common knowledge."
Wow you're such a tough guy dude.
I know right, you can tell from just the way i worded that I am really really tough init
Read to about page 6 of this thread and decided to respond directly to OP.
Well obviously, I've already read your rules before responding to this paragraph. I just wish to note that "looking a little irresponsible/douchey" is entirely subjective and hence not reason for ultimate downfall. Ultimate downfall will only become possible if vapers treat their activity as something to be inherently ashamed of.
As smoking hasn't come close to "ultimate downfall," I think we are safe for a long time to come.
Remind me to not vape around your girlfriend's brother when I'm in your neck of the woods. Until then, I continue to have significant issues with the ban against children vaping that I'm always up for discussing. As I asked in another thread today, what is the issue with kids vaping zero-nic from some adult vapers?
My friends and family tell me, repeatedly, that my exhaled vapor does not smell. I ask them periodically, and most of the time they say they cannot smell a thing. Sometimes, as in rarely, I have been told a fragrance can be detected.
If being realistic on this point, I would say person must be less than 5 feet from you, you must exhale a pretty hefty amount, and it must be a pungent flavor. If one of those is not true, then the detected smell from a stranger in public is highly unlikely.
I've vaped in 6 restaurants in 2014. Most of the time, asking if it was okay. Usually in spot that was away from main dining area. Thus restaurants aren't off-limits, but are places where respectful vaping ought to go up a notch or two. Again, though I have been allowed to vape in restaurants and thus are not off limits. Concluding otherwise, due to perceived shame, could lead to ultimate downfall.
I don't need to vape literally anywhere (including own home / vehicle), but I desire to vape in many places I go. Walmart and other megastores are arguably the best place to vape, including outdoors, as when you exhale, you have very good idea where that vapor will dissipate to. Outdoors, with wind factor, you can't be so sure. If I am in crowded store, I generally refrain from vaping. If mildly crowded, or less, I can easily find dozens of places where no other human will be present for at least a minute.
Agree with this for most part, and do ask in many places. But as I vape in hospitals, I generally do not ask. PIC isn't always known and is akin to asking outdoors, IMO. Plus, there are again dozens of places where no humans will be found, and thus is akin to going out into middle of nowhere and thinking I should ask before I take a puff here in the middle of nowhere. Or just do it like I, a vaper, belong here and am being respectful of fellow humans, who happen to be nowhere around me at this point in time.
But as I said before, in restaurant I did ask, and was allowed to vape indoors in those restaurants. Asking, in general, is good protocol. Sometimes, I do find it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission.
I would follow the request to put it away, especially if said in courteous tone. Thing is, in my 2+ years of vaping in public, I haven't been asked once. Thus the "be respectful" thing is easier done on the front end if going with vape everywhere with respect.
For me, the bottom line, with regards to your rant is that you are preaching to the choir for the most part. I believe most of us here get what respectful vaping looks like. Many of us have do's and don'ts for public vaping, but is personal for the most part. I don't have huge device, so am likely producing a lot less on exhale than most people reading this thread. Yet, I'm still going to be advocate for public vaping on the big devices with all the points I made in rebuttal to your 'rules.' The 'kids' one is biggest deal to me, and again, not shy about having that discussion.
Even if there was harsh rules (like there is with smoking) for public vaping, there will still be people breaking those rules, tip toeing on the line. But to be very clear, if someone is intentionally blowing vapor into another person's face, then that isn't really about vaping, now is it?
If you are a respectful vaper, willing to do it everywhere/anywhere, then there is nothing to be ashamed of IMO. And is the most reasonable position to maintain given underhand tactics of our very visible (political) opposition.
Well obviously, I've already read your rules before responding to this paragraph. I just wish to note that "looking a little irresponsible/douchey" is entirely subjective and hence not reason for ultimate downfall. Ultimate downfall will only become possible if vapers treat their activity as something to be inherently ashamed of.
As smoking hasn't come close to "ultimate downfall," I think we are safe for a long time to come.
Remind me to not vape around your girlfriend's brother when I'm in your neck of the woods. Until then, I continue to have significant issues with the ban against children vaping that I'm always up for discussing. As I asked in another thread today, what is the issue with kids vaping zero-nic from some adult vapers?
My friends and family tell me, repeatedly, that my exhaled vapor does not smell. I ask them periodically, and most of the time they say they cannot smell a thing. Sometimes, as in rarely, I have been told a fragrance can be detected.
If being realistic on this point, I would say person must be less than 5 feet from you, you must exhale a pretty hefty amount, and it must be a pungent flavor. If one of those is not true, then the detected smell from a stranger in public is highly unlikely.
I've vaped in 6 restaurants in 2014. Most of the time, asking if it was okay. Usually in spot that was away from main dining area. Thus restaurants aren't off-limits, but are places where respectful vaping ought to go up a notch or two. Again, though I have been allowed to vape in restaurants and thus are not off limits. Concluding otherwise, due to perceived shame, could lead to ultimate downfall.
I don't need to vape literally anywhere (including own home / vehicle), but I desire to vape in many places I go. Walmart and other megastores are arguably the best place to vape, including outdoors, as when you exhale, you have very good idea where that vapor will dissipate to. Outdoors, with wind factor, you can't be so sure. If I am in crowded store, I generally refrain from vaping. If mildly crowded, or less, I can easily find dozens of places where no other human will be present for at least a minute.
Rule #4: Its typically easy to ask the manager if its alright, and usually if you ask they are fine with it. In small businesses or even smaller stores, its typically a good thing to ask the PIC if you can vape in their establishment. As long as whatever manager you are bugging isn't to busy, they usually are fine with it, and you avoid the awkward moment of getting asked to put it away if you don't. Plus, assuming makes an ... out of both "u" and "me"
Agree with this for most part, and do ask in many places. But as I vape in hospitals, I generally do not ask. PIC isn't always known and is akin to asking outdoors, IMO. Plus, there are again dozens of places where no humans will be found, and thus is akin to going out into middle of nowhere and thinking I should ask before I take a puff here in the middle of nowhere. Or just do it like I, a vaper, belong here and am being respectful of fellow humans, who happen to be nowhere around me at this point in time.
But as I said before, in restaurant I did ask, and was allowed to vape indoors in those restaurants. Asking, in general, is good protocol. Sometimes, I do find it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission.
I would follow the request to put it away, especially if said in courteous tone. Thing is, in my 2+ years of vaping in public, I haven't been asked once. Thus the "be respectful" thing is easier done on the front end if going with vape everywhere with respect.
For me, the bottom line, with regards to your rant is that you are preaching to the choir for the most part. I believe most of us here get what respectful vaping looks like. Many of us have do's and don'ts for public vaping, but is personal for the most part. I don't have huge device, so am likely producing a lot less on exhale than most people reading this thread. Yet, I'm still going to be advocate for public vaping on the big devices with all the points I made in rebuttal to your 'rules.' The 'kids' one is biggest deal to me, and again, not shy about having that discussion.
Even if there was harsh rules (like there is with smoking) for public vaping, there will still be people breaking those rules, tip toeing on the line. But to be very clear, if someone is intentionally blowing vapor into another person's face, then that isn't really about vaping, now is it?
If you are a respectful vaper, willing to do it everywhere/anywhere, then there is nothing to be ashamed of IMO. And is the most reasonable position to maintain given underhand tactics of our very visible (political) opposition.
Well, I finally got "full member" status, but don't want to repost in Public Vaping forum. Doubles suck. Mods please move
This isn't the way to get help
The report triangle at the bottom of the post - use it to get help with things please
I only saw this because I was Forum Surfing
Moved to E-Cigarettes in Public
Everyone is practicing impulse control all the time.
It is very rare to find people that are out of control on an ongoing basis.
And again, this is very very rare to have no ability to control impulses.
I believe you are if you are thinking that someone who chooses to not go 20 minutes without a vape in public lacks that ability. I believe you'd have a very tough time finding mental health professional to support a claim that says this person is diagnosable as lacking that ability.
Because otherwise, I really don't know of anyone who would argue that lack of impulse control is "a good thing" and "healthy" and something that doesn't require some intervention.
And this would depend on how one is using the words "lack of impulse control." If misusing the terms to suggest that nicotine users lack the ability, then it would demonstrate lack of understanding.
Feel free to back up your assertion with mental health data, particularly as it relates to nicotine users. The 'general disorder' that you seem to be latching onto, applies arguably to all of humanity.
ok...quit picking apart peoples posts and making snide comments.
Either give your opinion on the OP or not, but don't be sniping at members.
It's not only Forum Rules...it's courtesy and respect for others.
hmmm...courtesy and respect for others, what an interesting concept.
Either give your opinion on the OP or not, but don't be sniping at members.
It's not only Forum Rules...it's courtesy and respect for others.
hmmm...courtesy and respect for others, what an interesting concept.
Admitting to control over one's own behavior is no more a "tout" than saying one has control over their rage or their aggression.
I can't venture a guess why you take exception to developing or practicing healthy abilities. Self control is sort of a given in most environments, whether that be in households with family, or out in the world with coworkers and strangers.
Your comments are beginning to reak of classic enabling behavior, the pushback, the name-calling, the retaliation..... nobody wants to be seen as mean or *condescending*, so they are pressured and encouraged to become enablers---- to help others stay in denial and to support unhealthy behaviors/emotions ----because to do otherwise they will be called names.
Sorry, but that's a FAIL.
Try it on somebody else. It's not my definition.
Its clearly described in the DSM-IV and DSM-5, along with other conduct disorders and self control problems involving emotions and behaviors.
Including those which involve blaming others for their problems, and behaviors that bring an individual into significant conflict with society and/or authority figures.
No stigma attached, and no condescension on my part.....
.....because I don't believe that counselling should carry a stigma when one experiences unhealthy emotions/behaviors, or that to suggest it is *condescending*.
Can you please cite that data. My reading of DSM text doesn't match what you are saying with regards to vaping in public and disorders.
What are you seeing?
Seems like DSM-5 covers a Wide Range of Compulsive Disorders. As well as Mental and Physical Addictions.
DSM-5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nothing that shows that not being able to go 20 minutes without a puff on an eCig (with or without nicotine) signifies a disorder that laypeople can surely diagnose.
If a person could not go 20 Minutes without Biting their Nails, would you consider this to be a Disorder?
Or if a Person could Not do 30 Minutes of Shopping in a Store without Nail Biting, would that be something you would consider a Problem?
Would depend on the severity of the "biting." If not a harm to themselves, then I would consider it a very mild disorder that isn't worth professional treatment. Moreover, I would question the professional ethics of anyone who deemed it necessary for professional treatment.
Not if it is no significant harm to them.
Mild disorders are the norm for every human I've either met or heard of.
OK... So the Inability of a person to Not Do Something doesn't play a Role in any of this?
BTW - I won't even comment on the Last Sentence in your Post.
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Kind of off track, maybe not, but...
Isn't wanting to control the behavior of others some sort of disorder?
The thread starts out as if it's one person's take on what's acceptable (and, I guess exceptable as well ) behavior for THEM. Then come the definitions of what other people need to do. I'm cool with that first part, but the second part? Well they need to control their controlling urges.
Remember folks, the definition of normal (including normal behavior) varies widely and wildly depending on where you are. It wasn't that long ago that it was 'normal' to smoke pretty much anywhere and everywhere. There's a family-owned restaurant in Nashville that makes some of the best cheeeburgers you'll find anywhere. The folks who run it are (or at least were) all smokers. I recall, not that long ago, a tourist asking for seating in the no-smoking section. The reply was priceless. "We don't have one, but you don't have to smoke if you don't want to." The meaning? Hey dude, this is an establishment that allows smoking. If you want to eat somewhere that's smoke-free, this ain't the place, see ya! And they were OK with that (the owners, not the uptight Yankee tourists ).
Honestly, like our example earlier with the theater manager. His house, his rules. No problem. But please, unless your income is derived from the establishment, what gives you or anyone the right to say they can't provide a place where people can vape or even smoke? Do all of you over-controlling folks have your own affairs in such great order that you have to worry about what everyone else is doing to that extent? I don't think so.
Isn't wanting to control the behavior of others some sort of disorder?
The thread starts out as if it's one person's take on what's acceptable (and, I guess exceptable as well
) behavior for THEM. Then come the definitions of what other people need to do. I'm cool with that first part, but the second part? Well they need to control their controlling urges. Remember folks, the definition of normal (including normal behavior) varies widely and wildly depending on where you are. It wasn't that long ago that it was 'normal' to smoke pretty much anywhere and everywhere. There's a family-owned restaurant in Nashville that makes some of the best cheeeburgers you'll find anywhere. The folks who run it are (or at least were) all smokers. I recall, not that long ago, a tourist asking for seating in the no-smoking section. The reply was priceless. "We don't have one, but you don't have to smoke if you don't want to." The meaning? Hey dude, this is an establishment that allows smoking. If you want to eat somewhere that's smoke-free, this ain't the place, see ya! And they were OK with that (the owners, not the uptight Yankee tourists
).Honestly, like our example earlier with the theater manager. His house, his rules. No problem. But please, unless your income is derived from the establishment, what gives you or anyone the right to say they can't provide a place where people can vape or even smoke? Do all of you over-controlling folks have your own affairs in such great order that you have to worry about what everyone else is doing to that extent? I don't think so.
As stated before, the "inability" is very very rare. I would argue that it doesn't actually exist, but realize there could be (rare) cases where it would appear to be be non-existent.
Person who brought up this tangent in this thread said they would go hours without a smoke because they would have to (due to work). Yet, from psychological perspective, that isn't actually dealing with the impulse control mechanism, and in a sense is exposing that they had the urges, but denied them (because they felt they had to). So, if forced to, I'm sure all would manifest an 'ability' even while at level of consciousness, it would likely play out far differently. IOW, people mask their 'ability' very well, even while their mild disorder is actually occurring.
Kind of off track, maybe not, but...
Isn't wanting to control the behavior of others some sort of disorder?
My short answer would be "yes."
Plausible that DSM would reference this as a form of social anxiety disorder. IMO, it is similar to the issue of "I quit smoking, therefore everyone else should."
I dunno Jman8? Perhaps it gets down to how one Defines "Inability".
Seems like if Everyone has the Ability to Not Take a Hit whenever they wanted to, than Many of these Threads would Not Exist.
And there wouldn't be any Bans.
It would just get down to Businesses setting their Own Policies of whether Vaping Was or Wasn't Allowed. And Everyone would Respect their Policy.
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