Good replies above, even if we disagree on some of it, there are some good points being made, without needless personal attacks for the most part.
Keep em coming!
Keep em coming!
My Public Vaping Philosophy
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To be honest people can say they blame me and people like me for the vaping legislation.
Whereas I feel it is the opposite.
People who treat their vaping as some kind of taboo reinforce the notions that people have concocted in their own minds.
People who treat their vaping as an ordinary thing who enlighten upon ignorance help create new vapers and other supporters.
Some people just cannot be reasoned with, try Westboro Baptist for example.
Whereas I feel it is the opposite.
People who treat their vaping as some kind of taboo reinforce the notions that people have concocted in their own minds.
People who treat their vaping as an ordinary thing who enlighten upon ignorance help create new vapers and other supporters.
Some people just cannot be reasoned with, try Westboro Baptist for example.
that's what I was trying to say... I'm just not that great with words so sometimes I don't get my point all the way across.
Thats how I feel all the time on here man.
As an aside: What places are commonly known to have anti vaping policies?
Not places B&M stores or Ma & Pa shops, places that are franchised or corporations - etc... i.e Starbucks, Walmart
I have read all your responses, and using the logic you have put down, we should eliminate soft drinks because they look like we are drinking alcohol. We should eliminate flavored alcohol because they are being marketed to children. Some drinks even GASP look and taste like fruit punch!!! Oh the horror.
The weak assumption you base your arguments on, is you think anti-e-cig regulation is due to the large number of vapers out there creating havoc.
The truth is, the campaign against e-cigs has been in full force long before many of us knew what they were.
The ANTZ don't want to "regulate" your behavior, they want to eliminate it. Just like the recent ban on smoking in your own home if it shares a wall with a neighbor was recently passed in several California towns.
IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!! These are not the actions of people who simply want to regulate tobacco use, or the use of e-cigs. These are the actions of people who want to dictate how you live your life and feel it is their mission from God, to force you to live by their own standards.
What's next? Can't order a large drink because it has too many calories? Oops, that one is taken. Can't put a toy in a happy meal because it promotes bad eating habits?... Oh, that's taken too. Kid's being expelled from school because they point their finger into something that resembles a gun?....Yep, already done.
This is not about some hipster douche bag billowing clouds in Sam's Club because he thinks it's cool. This is about the fundamental rights that we enjoy as Americans to do what we want to do as long as it does not HARM someone else.
I don't drink alcohol, but I feel someone of legal age should be able to drink alcohol,
I don't own a gun, but I feel a responsible adult should be able to purchase and own a gun.
I'm not Gay, but however two responsible adults choose to form relationships is not my business.
This is not a battle about vaping. It is a battle about the government continuing to interfere with the personal lives of people while touting that "It is for your own good".
It is about government dictating what you drink, what you eat, what you wear, and how you think. It's about control.
We deal with annoyances every day and we are expected to deal with them. I don't enjoy being blasted by a big cloud of car exhaust, but it's something I deal with If I'm walking down the street. I don't like sitting next to a lady that bathed herself in Chanel No. 5, but I am expected to deal with it. (And I deal with that much more often down here in So. Fla. than I deal with vapers).
We don't ban things because other people may find them offensive. This is political correctness at it's core. We ban things because the are shown to cause harm. Second hand smoke was shown (using terribly flawed studies, BTW) to cause harm to non-smokers so smoking was banned.
Vaping has yet to reach that threshold, and scientific studies that have been done indicate that it never will.
There is NO scientific evidence that points to vaping as being potentially harmful to anyone but the vaper himself, and studies are showing that the harm to the vaper is less than the harm in eating a Big Mac.
Yet vaping continues to be banned because it LOOKS LIKE a harmful activity?
This is not a fight for vaping, it is a fight against increasingly intrusive government officials and society that states we have to conform to their way of thinking or be expelled.
This happened over 70 years ago elsewhere in the world, and when that was all said an done, over 100 million people's lives were extinguished simply because of their genealogy.
I agree with much of what you are putting forward, I am not "condoning" this public view, or saying it is right, but unfortunately it is the world we live in, as you stated yourself, much less has been banned already, for even less reasons, or infact zero reasons.
The reality is no matter what our little population of vapers thinks, the legislation machine and "anti" crowed will march forward, banning things based on image, not on reality, pissing in their face about it or not, we are on a path that we have little control over.
The one thing we do have in our power, as ambassadors of vaping, is to be at least respectful about it, we vapers are the frontline in the public eye, and in my humble opinion we can win more battles with sugar then with fire.
Wanna make a difference? Get involved with your local legislation that are trying to prevent access and use right now, I think that will get more done then inadvertently blowing a cloud in front of your local government officials faces at a movie or inside a store.
(actually IMHO blowing that cloud in front of government officials will get more done, but to the ANTI's benefit.)
The reality is no matter what our little population of vapers thinks, the legislation machine and "anti" crowed will march forward, banning things based on image, not on reality, pissing in their face about it or not, we are on a path that we have little control over.
The one thing we do have in our power, as ambassadors of vaping, is to be at least respectful about it, we vapers are the frontline in the public eye, and in my humble opinion we can win more battles with sugar then with fire.
Wanna make a difference? Get involved with your local legislation that are trying to prevent access and use right now, I think that will get more done then inadvertently blowing a cloud in front of your local government officials faces at a movie or inside a store.
(actually IMHO blowing that cloud in front of government officials will get more done, but to the ANTI's benefit.)
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I do not believe you should blow that cloud in front of government officials. I believe you should take that big hit off your APV and exhale NOTHING......
Instead of trying to convince our legislators on how important it is to allow vaping, I think we need to show them how incredibly difficult it would be to enforce any ban against it.
I am also 100% for challenging the constitutionality of any bans in place. There is no scientific justification for the bans currently in place. The arguments for such bans are based on sound bytes and emotional arguments.
A court challenge, questioning the constitutionality of said bans now puts the shoe on the other foot. The proponents of the ban now must justify why it is necessary. The burden of proof now rests on the people wanting to ban the behavior, and it is an argument they know they have little chance of winning.
The soda ban in New York was already overturned. It is possible. We need to continue to challenge overreach by government. The place for that is our court system. It is a part of our checks and balances. The civil rights movement and the movement for the legalization of gay marriage were all fought in the court system. They were able to overturn laws that were passed that were not constitutional. Vaping bans in my opinion fall into that category.
We live in a (used to be, and still mostly is) a free country. If something is NOT illegal, have at it. I vape everywhere. I really don't care since what I am doing is not illegal. If I try to hide it, it looks like I am doing something illegal.
We all know that vaping is safer than smoking. As of right now, there is zero proof that it is harmful. People have been vaping since 2006. IF there were ANY negative impacts from either 1st hand or 2nd hand vapor at all, those who have been looking to make it illegal would have jumped all over it. They have been looking (hard), and they have found nothing. That is why we keep hearing about a flawed study from years ago that showed "some" problems with pre-loaded cartridges.
I went into a bar with a vaping buddy last weekend. During our first round of beers, we semi-stealth vaped by just exhaling down towards our laps. Nobody noticed. I set my PV on the bar, and eventually the bartender saw it. At that point, I held it up and asked if they minded. If he had said yes, I would have gone out to the patio for a few, and vaped. As it was, they were cool with it. I am not assuming that I have to give up my personal liberties for fear that it will give the wrong impression. Chances are that Maryland will follow NYC's lead and ban indoor vaping at some point, with or without scientific evidence. Since I understand that this is yet another personal freedom that I will likely have to surrender in the near future, I am going to "get while the gettin' is good". Sooner or later, I wil lose that freedom to placate someone who feels like I should not be allowed to "normalize" smoking. Screw that. Let them observe me vaping and get ...... off. I am going to get ...... when they ban it, and they won't give it a second thought. I won't just roll over and voluntarily give up my freedom because it might give people an idea to ban it. That is why the government gets away with easily taking our freedoms away so haphazardly and with such ease.
This roll over and play dead mentality is what dooms us to failure before we even start.
Vape everywhere, and answer questions. We need to educate non vapers that it is possible for us to co-exist without either side giving up their personal liberties, or their health. Whenever I encounter someone who is per-conditioned to think that vaping is bad, I ask them if they know a loved one or close friend that smokes. Nearly all of them do. I tell them, "If you truly care about them, ask them to try this. It will make them WALK away from smoking. You may help save, or extend their life.". The conversation generally turns much more cordial after that. Another tactic that is very effective is to use their own argument against them. I talk about how big tobacco, and big pharma (two entities despised by folks preconditioned to be against smoking and vaping) are losing money, and funding the efforts to ban vaping in order to maintain their profits. I love doing this, as you can immediately see the inner conflict that it causes in their heads. Veins start popping.
So yeah... I will blow whatever size cloud, whenever and wherever I want. It ain't illegal until it is...
+1+1+1+1
I especially like the bolded parts. That has to be a lockjaw moment when you make it very personal to them and having a friend or loved one who smokes!
That is one of the first questions I ask when having a conversation with anyone about vaping.
This makes the entire topic very personal to their world. They pay attention and engage the brain cells a whole lot better when there's that connection.
And I hope to hear of one those don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts type people's head actually popping like a balloon! (can you imagine the YouTube hit counts!
)"Anti nicotine / tobacco zealot's head explodes when confronted with the facts"
"Stan Glantz blames second hand vapor"
"Stan Glantz blames second hand vapor"
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I was gonna stay out of this, but...
Right on. I was against banning smoking in bars when it happened. Yes, I was a smoker then. I am still against that ban as a non smoker, and for the same reasons. Allowing this argument to just be about vaping, or booze, or guns or anything else allows those seeking to limit your freedom to define the argument, and obscure their real intent.
Right on. I was against banning smoking in bars when it happened. Yes, I was a smoker then. I am still against that ban as a non smoker, and for the same reasons. Allowing this argument to just be about vaping, or booze, or guns or anything else allows those seeking to limit your freedom to define the argument, and obscure their real intent.
Agree with everyone here who disagrees on everything.
Cheers to those young and old who fight for their rights. Cheers to those who can figure out how to do it without even fighting. Cheers to kids who love playing with huge clouds. Cheers to old folks whose lives were saved or greatly improved by vaping. Cheers to the courteous and pleasant, the reasonable and tolerant. Cheers to those who push the envelope and those who respect convention.
Damn it, I must do something to get me out of this rose-colored sugar-frosted good mood.
Cheers to those young and old who fight for their rights. Cheers to those who can figure out how to do it without even fighting. Cheers to kids who love playing with huge clouds. Cheers to old folks whose lives were saved or greatly improved by vaping. Cheers to the courteous and pleasant, the reasonable and tolerant. Cheers to those who push the envelope and those who respect convention.
Damn it, I must do something to get me out of this rose-colored sugar-frosted good mood.
Well I hate being pushed into the smoking section
That being said discretely in public non smoking places.
That being said discretely in public non smoking places.
Once, anti-SMOKE regulations were based on facts and proper science; based on REAL and LEGITIMATE health concerns. You were still allowed to smoke OUTSIDE, because NO proper study has ever shown the 'dangers' of SHS out in the open.
Today, it is just a moral crusade. Some smoking bans are already insane, even when applied to tobacco (No smoking OUTDOORS in parking lots, beaches and parks, for example). Yet, that did not keep the nannying busybodies out there from reaching a new level of madness: extending already insane no-SMOKING laws to SMOKELESS alternatives to tobacco. In those small, enclosed minds, E-cigs MAY have the stigma of 'mimicking' smoking, but, what is then the excuse to also include CHEWING tobacco in some non-SMOKING laws??
It has been a long time since it was about 'health'. Today, is about a few nosy, petulant, nannying and mostly ill-informed tyrants believing they have the 'right' to tell OTHERS to live their lives according to THEIR own moral codes. It's about a power trip enjoyed by the self-righteous, who actually like sitting on a tall horse telling the morally inferior, filthy smoker/vaper/obese/'take-your-pick' what he SHOULD do with his own life!! In fact, not really TELLING him, but actually DEMANDING!!
What hapenned to people minding their own effing business when others are doing something LEGAL, and that will affect them in ANY way at all?
Why should THEIR 'right' to be easily and unreasonably OFENDED overcome MY right of self-preservation, of taking care of my health by keeping myself away from tobacco?
Our actions (vaping in public) will NOT kill the petty tyrants. THEIR actions, however (banning the e-cig, for example) CAN actually KILL vapers who relapse to tobacco...!
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