New Atomizer Coil Shape

[Vaporer]

After long thought and looking at buildup on atomizer coils it was time for some serious rethinking.

When air passes a cylinder it doesn't wrap all the way around it. It turbulates on the back side. This presents a problem for the coil, the thermal mass, only getting just over 50% exposure. Doesn't seem like the most efficient design. It's small diameter is to its advantage, but the weight of the atomized liquid is heavier and its energy will pull it past the coil not allowing it to roll back in to it.
Ceramic cups sometimes have side intakes allowing more disturbance of the atomized liquid. This can cause a stall, possibly holding it near the coil, allowing it to vaporize. With the diameter of the PV tube, it seems doubtful. It's possible that this design doesn't matter
being small tubed and hit from all directions but the other advantages made below should be well founded.

The new design here is an oval shape. An egg (small end 1st) is actually the best for less aerodynamic drag.
The oval design has less resistance to airflow, (Airplane Airfoils)
Less distance from the coil as it passes and less distance to try and be pulled back in. Its biggest plus is more surface area of the nichrome wire exposed to the atomized airflow. Approximately 80%.
Other advantages is the main body of the coil is now in the mainstream of the 2 bottom feed holes and the 2mm "side face" is in direct path of the side inlets. A single smaller dia coil can be 2x as wide as the feed ports. When examing a dead carboned atomizer, it's normally buldged in the middle and very little to none on the ends since the ends were out of the airstream not really doing any work.

Materials were 2ea. 1mm rods as a winding core and 1.25in of 36ga wire. Resulting in a 3.1ohm coil. This makes a coil 1mm wide x 2mm tall at its widest points plus the dia of the wire. (.005 in.)
My next one will use a 1.5mm top rod to more simulate the egg shape.

As for now, not much to say other than it works well. Vapor production is good and time will tell on buildup and longevity.

Note: The 801 high bridge atty pictured had a broken mesh leg. Best attempts were made to repair the mesh joint and assure good feed on that side. So far I haven't noticed any problems. No typical 801 flooding, but it's still early on this one. Maybe a reduced feed on the bad side or the design allows it to just get drawn out.

Hope you enjoy it.

Edit:
Silica "fire wick" rope: McMaster-Carr
Due to changes at McMaster Carr be sure to select option #3 or #4 for the silica rope. If not selected you will receive a lower temp fiberglass rope.

Nichrome wire: 36ga (27ohm per ft) $2 for 10' free shipping from:
Nichrome Wire

 

[jj2]

Keep it up cause you are smarter than this average bear, and thanks for all the time and effort.
I really do wish you luck, a lot of people are counting on people like you.

 

[Jason365]

That does it. I need to get some 801 atty's and adapters to fit my 510 gear. Any of you guys want to send me a busted 801 or 2. Rebuilding the 510's and their small as a hair wire holes is for the bears. The 801 look much easier to get in to and work.

Oh by the way great job on that atty and coil. I found the more fiber wicking you get in there the better. it seems to insulate the nicrhome from itself.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Vaporer--this is a great development. What did you use for the coil and wick as actual material and where did you get it?

Great work and I am sticking this thread.


Sun

 

[Richie G]

Vaporer--this is a great development. What did you use for the coil and wick as actual material and where did you get it?

Great work and I am sticking this thread.


Sun

Are you sticking this thread because of Vaporer's research and work or is there some sort of nepotism going on? I mean, you two guys have the same 'family' name. <g>

Kudos Vaporer. I'm curious to see where this all leads.

 

[Vaporer]

Ok, all the material links are in the original post.

I have a mod to post and then maybe its time for a from the ground up atty rebuild tutorial. Step by step with pics. Probably have to do it with a downloadable file since it would have many pics. Adobe is free and probably the best.
There are some I'm sure in the atty thread, but each has thier own way.
Its easy to miss things people arent used to seeing , doing or know alot about and they get left cold to wonder or believe its over thier head.
Not true in many cases. Just better explainations needed and lots of pics!

With the ban hanging over us I'd like to see more "how to's" posted in detail.

Actually the 510 is a smaller diameter, but the thin band one is one of the easiest to disassemble without breaking things.

I need to post what this critter went in and I know what my next project will be!

 

[Scottbee]

Have you ever taken a GreenCig cartomizer apart?

 

[Vaporer]

No, I have never seen one in hand.
I do have a KR808 that's coming apart soon.
It's atomizer appears to be vertical. Should be interesting.

 

[Scottbee]

There are some pics on the forum of the Greencig carto taken apart.... and in their design they use what looks like horse hair (I'm sure it is fiberglass or the like), and they wrap the coil right around a bundle of it. There are some similarities to what you have posted.

I don't mean anything bad by this.. just thought you would be interested.

 

[Scottbee]

Looks like the pics are gone.. but here's the thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/atomizer-mods/43990-greencig-cartomizer-autopsy.html

 

[Vaporer]

Scottbee,

This thread is from what I could actually work with in hand as I had it for an improvement in efficiency.

No offense taken. I didnt see any reference to the shape or airflow.
Seemed highly praised though.
I will have to troll the classifieds for a cart or 2 cut up.
If someone has a couple dead ones, I'll gladly pay the postage for them.

The silica wick is actually amorphous silica continuous filament fiber as read from the manufaturers website. Silica yarn can be found as small as 2mm for stitching and seems well suited for wicking material as opposed to the rope. It's not easy to find anyone that will send a sample and buying 500-1000' unseen isn't practical.
?High temperature silica fiber yarn?silica fiber yarn , silica yarn , High silica yarn , high silica fiber yarn ,1700 centidegree fiber yarn ,1000 centidegree fiber yarn , 97% silica fiber yarn ,

The rope form seems a little more brittle, but all thats readily available and takes heat very well. Also, the corrosive substances mentioned on that page incliude phosphoric acid. The Pepsi and Coke soaker may damage a wick made with this product but I would suspect it would need to be a much stronger concentration. I placed some in fresh Pepsi and noticed no difference in 24 hrs.

 

[Scottbee]

I found the pic I was looking for. Internals of a Greencig cartomizer:

 

[Vaporer]

Thanks for the pic. Used wick and filler turns that color pretty quickly in life. It really does look like hair.
The coil is narrower than most but from what I can tell its wrapped fairly tight and round, not oval. No way to determine what the airflow is to it just from that pic.

I really don't understand the reasoning for the loop. I know why mines there and it gets trimmed off when dropped into the cup. I'll cover that when I do the tutorial on rebuilding an atomizer. The other longer end is routed under the mesh on the bridge for a wick feed. This all actually primes the system preventing the wick from burning and soaks up bottom juice in the cup to help prevent flooding.

 

[Vaporer]

Scottbee,

I also have a 4.5ohm coil that has been doing quite well for over a month.

Stock atomizers are normally 3.2-3.4 ohms with 3.7v. This results in 1A current draw and produces 4 watts of power(heat) for vaporization.

The 4.5ohm version draws .82A and only produces 3 watts of power(heat) and still vapes well. So, it provides longer battery life due to a lower drain rate.

With an unprotected battery a 3.4 ohm atomizer coil will still vaporize e liquid at 2.25v. It not great, but still producing. At that time it's drawing .66A and producing 1.48watts of power. So at 2.5v its still working fairly well on much less power.
This could go a long way in reducing carbon production in the atomizer extending its lifespan. The lowered current draw is still higher than one would want on a battery and no wonder penstyle batteries don't last that long. They can range from 180ma to 350ma. A stock atomizer is drawing 3-5 times more current than the battery is designed to discharge.

 

[Richie G]

With an unprotected battery a 3.4 ohm atomizer coil will still vaporize e liquid at 2.25v. It not great, but still producing. At that time it's drawing .66A and producing 1.48watts of power. So at 2.5v its still working fairly well on much less power.
This could go a long way in reducing carbon production in the atomizer extending its lifespan. The lowered current draw is still higher than one would want on a battery and no wonder penstyle batteries don't last that long. They can range from 180ma to 350ma. A stock atomizer is drawing 3-5 times more current than the battery is designed to discharge.

>

I'm watching this thread with anticipation, Vaporer. Suffice to say that I'm impressed with your findings and work.

When you say; "still vaporize e liquid at 2.25 v. It's not great, but still producing" you are referring to vapor production AND throat hit, I presume? I find that I change batteries out when they discharge down to 3.6 v or so as opposed to 4.2 v at full charge because of a lack of TH and not necessarily a lack of vapor production.

I find it fascinating that you're looking into varying the resistance of the attys instead of increasing voltage and mah via larger batteries like the rest of the e-cig world.

 

[Vaporer]

Actually its more vapor than throat at that point. Throat hit seems to be determined by 3 things. Temperature, Nicotine strength and volume. At 2.25v its still making vapor, but at a noticably reduced amount, so the volume and temperature is less.

We need around 400* to vapoize eliquid. Nichrome wire starts glowing red at about 1900*. So, in theory, we should be able to reduce the killing carbon by running lower temperatures. Protected batteries will cutout at 2.75v.
To reach 400* 36ga nichrome wire requires about .380A. That is at full efficiency and dry. We have a variable airflow and cooling due to heat being transferred to the wet wick and atomized liquid hitting it. So, we have to, for convience of no long wait, vapor during draw use more current. A lot may depend on what the user wants. More flavor which is better with lower temps or better throat hit and larger volume involving the heat and greater vapor laden nic.

There is a flip side to all this. Most that use higher voltages will say flavor suffers, I'd expect that, more vapor and throat hit. Expected also. But, the higher voltages could by design vaporize more liquid before it reaches the atomizer. In that case, it would actually form less carbon at the price of reducing flavor and requiring a larger battery for time of use.

This thread was mainly addressing using the coil more efficiently physically by design.
As you can see, I'm considering other factors and not ruling anything out yet. A lot still to be tested and that takes time. It's pretty evident right off the bat that people would be better off with a good mod using standard type 3.7v batteries that have have a 1A rating minimum. Many are 900ma and that is still a big plus vs a standard penstyle 180ma factory battery. Sucking the guts out of the battery will surely shorten its lifespan.

Thanks to all for the input , interest and support!

 

[Vaporer]

Another point to consider is that most factory atomizers I've checked use 38ga wire. Slightly smaller in dia and more fragile after usage as nichrome wire does harden on repeated heating and cooling cycles. With 36ga fitting well, even at a slightly shorter length should take abuse a little better due to the larger dia.
Also a shorter coil can be made with 36ga and the factory 38ga longer lengths are the ones I've found that the ends , due to length, are not in the airflow stream.

 

[stroh22]

Vaporer,
I am so looking forward to the tutorial that you will be putting together for rebuilding the atomizer. Hopefully it will be easy enough to do. I still haven't even attempted to make a mod yet for the battery. Maybe I will try to do the Nicostick, sometime in the near future. Kudos to you for your effort & the willingness to share with other members.

-D-

 

[Vaporer]

stroh22,
It won't be a short read. lol
I'd like to do it as a "living" pdf file. As much as I try, because I've done this type of thing many years, it's easy to unintentionally skip things that are taken for granted.
So, when the 1st draft is posted and questions will be asked, the file will need to be edited to address what wasn't understood or explained clearly enough. Then a new version will be posted. I don't expect it to be small from the git go.
If a person can't understand all the steps then it's worthless...........

For anyone planning on attempting to repair/rebuild thier atomizers I'd suggest reading a tutorial on soldering and practice if they haven't had much in the past. I'm sure I saw one on the forum somewhere in the modders section.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/22122-how-solder-video.html
Nichrome wire doesnt solder easily, but with a little zinc chloride flux and a 30 watt soldering iron makes a fine soldered joint to copper wire in about 3-5 seconds.
These are the things that will be described in detail, with materials, sources, tools needed and such.

A simple mod would be excellent soldering practice and productive at the same time. There are some very nice simple mods in the modders section to choose from.

 

[stroh22]

Vaporer,
I don't mind a long read, especially if it is as in depth as you make it sound. The more knowledge available for me, the better off I am. I sincerely am looking forward to this opportunity that you will be making available to all of us. So when do you think you may be ready to fly with this? Can any of the parts be gotten from the local stores, or will I need to be getting parts online? I'm so impatient, I just hate waiting for things to come in through the mail. Thanks again for your interest in sharing with me and the rest of the forum.

-D-