New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[zoiDman]

This fact seems to keep getting lost or forgotten in the topic. That even though a couple of carcinogens were found that are also found in cigarettes (in most cases still lower, and only in very few conditions were they at the same levels), there are still thousands of other things found in cigarette smoke that are just as, if not more harmful then the two found in vape. This means that even if you are vaping an old CE4, and getting the two found carcinogens at cigarette levels, you are STILL magnitudes safer then if you were smoking a cigarette.
Perspective.......matters.

It's Not Lost with Me. Hence the Last Sentence in Post #2335.

 

[awsum140]

I was going to mention that kanthal contains iron, chromium and aluminum. Aren't they potentially toxic as well? Nahhhh, couldn't be.

 

[zoiDman]

I was going to mention that kanthal contains iron, chromium and aluminum. Aren't they potentially toxic as well? Nahhhh, couldn't be.

That's why I use NiChrome 80.

The Nickel Fumes counteracts the Hexavalent Chromium.

LOL

 

[DsyF]

I've recently bought an Endura T18e with the prism clearomizer.
It's a 1.5 ohm coil and is not adjustable - it apparently is around 15w..

This thread is more than a little worrying for me, is the device i'm using something to be concerned about?

 

[Lessifer]

I've recently bought an Endura T18e with the prism clearomizer.
It's a 1.5 ohm coil and is not adjustable - it apparently is around 15w..

This thread is more than a little worrying for me, is the device i'm using something to be concerned about?

In general, as long as you're not getting dry hits, you should be fine for what was being discussed here. Even if you were getting dry hits, it would be the difference between being 99.9% safer than smoking and being 99% safer than smoking.

 

[DsyF]

Thankyou very much Lessifer.
I really want to stick with vaping.. but i have health anxiety and OCD.. and threads like this make me throw all my gear in the bin and take up smoking again.
Are there any ways to reduce the temperature the coils reach (which from what i read is where the problem lies)?
for instance; are longer and lighter inhales healthier than taking a 1 second powerful inhale?
Or should you try and not chain vape with a non TC device in order to let it cool?

 

[Lessifer]

Thankyou very much Lessifer.
I really want to stick with vaping.. but i have health anxiety and OCD.. and threads like this make me throw all my gear in the bin and take up smoking again.
Are there any ways to reduce the temperature the coils reach (which from what i read is where the problem lies)?
for instance; are longer and lighter inhales healthier than taking a 1 second powerful inhale?
Or should you try and not chain vape with a non TC device in order to let it cool?

Just keep in mind that we're talking about three compounds, that also exist in cigarette smoke in much higher concentrations.

I'd say keep your airflow up, and maybe don't take extra long drags. You don't want to dry out your wick while you're vaping, because that's when temperatures really spike.

 

[zoiDman]

Thankyou very much Lessifer.
I really want to stick with vaping.. but i have health anxiety and OCD.. and threads like this make me throw all my gear in the bin and take up smoking again.
Are there any ways to reduce the temperature the coils reach (which from what i read is where the problem lies)?
for instance; are longer and lighter inhales healthier than taking a 1 second powerful inhale?
Or should you try and not chain vape with a non TC device in order to let it cool?

Why would you go Back to Smoking?

This thread Isn't about Vaping being Worse that Smoking. It's about 2 Compounds, that under Extreme Conditions may be as High as Smoking.

And as Another Member Mentioned, Vaping doesn't Expose you to the Hundreds of other Chemical Compounds that are Found in Cigarette Smoke.

 

[Katya]

I was going to mention that kanthal contains iron, chromium and aluminum. Aren't they potentially toxic as well? Nahhhh, couldn't be.

Not really.

You're forgetting the aluminum oxide protective layer that forms on Kanthal coils when heat is applied. That thin aluminum oxide scale is very effective at protecting the coil from further oxidation and chemical leaching.

 

[Katya]

Thankyou very much Lessifer.
I really want to stick with vaping.. but i have health anxiety and OCD.. and threads like this make me throw all my gear in the bin and take up smoking again.
Are there any ways to reduce the temperature the coils reach (which from what i read is where the problem lies)?
for instance; are longer and lighter inhales healthier than taking a 1 second powerful inhale?
Or should you try and not chain vape with a non TC device in order to let it cool?

Do not go back to smoking. Vape defensively.

Do not chain vape, do not take very long drags, avoid deep lung inhales if possible (with e-cigs, a large percentage of nicotine absorption occurs through mucous membranes in your mouth and nose), check the heat flux of your build (discussed earlier) and try to stay around 200 or so, try to vape clean and clear e-juices or unflavored, use only third generation devices that provide plenty of airflow (see Kurt's presentation in post 2 of this thread New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers).

Good luck!

 

[awsum140]

Not really.

You're forgetting the aluminum oxide protective layer that forms on Kanthal coils when heat is applied. That thin aluminum oxide scale is very effective at protecting the coil from further oxidation and chemical leaching.

I'm not a metallurgist, but I would guess that if heated to a high enough temperature kanthal will leach toxins as well into the air stream as any metal, or alloy, will. Ti, NI and SS will do the same thing IF heated to a high enough temperature. The overall point being that those temperatures are far, far, higher than normal vaping and would result in flames coming out of the drip tip.

 

[Katya]

I've recently bought an Endura T18e with the prism clearomizer.
It's a 1.5 ohm coil and is not adjustable - it apparently is around 15w..

This thread is more than a little worrying for me, is the device i'm using something to be concerned about?

I would stay away from any devices you can't regulate yourself. That Endura makes you vape at 14 watts (with 1.5Ω coil), which may be too high for you. I suggest you get a simple vw mod and a user-friendly atomizer like eGo One Mega with CLR coils or Eleaf Air tank with 1.5Ω (dual) coils.

 

[zoiDman]

Not really.

You're forgetting the aluminum oxide protective layer that forms on Kanthal coils when heat is applied. That thin aluminum oxide scale is very effective at protecting the coil from further oxidation and chemical leaching.

I wonder How Long it takes for that Protective Aluminum Oxide layer to form?

 

[Katya]

I'm not a metallurgist, but I would guess that if heated to a high enough temperature kanthal will leach toxins as well into the air stream as any metal, or alloy, will. Ti, NI and SS will do the same thing IF heated to a high enough temperature. The overall point being that those temperatures are far, far, higher than normal vaping and would result in flames coming out of the drip tip.

I'm not a metallurgist either, which is why I listen to metallurgists and learn from them. The issue has already been discussed in this thread, so I'll just refer you to the relevant post--at least two of the people I quote are indeed metallurgists. Just click on the links provided.

Absolutely right. And I assure you that nobody here "sees him as the absolute authority on any- and everything vaping-related." Far from it. We are a skeptical and cynical bunch and we always argue--just in case.

When Dr. F decided to issue his, somewhat misguided, warning against dry burning coils because "you are basically destroying the bonds between the metal molecules," he met immediately with universal criticism from vapers; some polite, some not so polite. This is from an old thread, so quoting is disabled--click on the links to my favorite posts.

The end of microcoils?

The end of microcoils?

The end of microcoils?

The end of microcoils?

Those are the polite ones.

Sorry, @Lessifer I'm just feeling nostalgic.

 

[Katya]

I wonder How Long it takes for that Protective Aluminum Oxide layer to form?

It is my understanding that not very long--it starts forming as soon as you gently pulse the coil to check your build and doesn't require very high heat. I'm sure @MacTechVpr will be able to tell you exactly what happens and when--he's one of our resident experts on aluminum oxide formation.

 

[DsyF]

Thanks all, I've swapped out the Endura battery for my old Eleaf istick TC40w.
i'm enjoying it much more at a lower wattage.
Katya - now that i've swapped out the battery are there any major reasons not to continue using the Prism clearomizer? It doesn't seem to have as much air-flow as my old mini-nautilus.. but i don't like aspires proprietary nature of their coils..

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks all, I've swapped out the Endura battery for my old Eleaf istick TC40w.
i'm enjoying it much more at a lower wattage.
Katya - now that i've swapped out the battery are there any major reasons not to continue using the Prism clearomizer? It doesn't seem to have as much air-flow as my old mini-nautilus.. but i don't like aspires proprietary nature of their coils..

Right On DsyF.

The eLeaf iStick 40w TC is a Great Mod.

 

[Katya]

Thanks all, I've swapped out the Endura battery for my old Eleaf istick TC40w.
i'm enjoying it much more at a lower wattage.
Katya - now that i've swapped out the battery are there any major reasons not to continue using the Prism clearomizer? It doesn't seem to have as much air-flow as my old mini-nautilus.. but i don't like aspires proprietary nature of their coils..

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with this atomizer, but I assume it's a 3rd gen device and can't be very different from your Nautilus. I'm glad you like your lower wattage!

Just stay away from first and second gen toppers and coils--CE series, most old school cartomizers, old clearos etc. Their coils are made of very thin wires (32-34g) and those heat up very quickly--you don't want that.

 

[NU_FTW]

Wonder how many carcinogens i will ingest after eating my buffalo wings and loaded potato skins... who wants to take bets over under vs vaping

 

[sofarsogood]

I'm certain my coil temps have always been south of 470 F (regardless of whether that's an important number for vapers) but I have a different issue. My 30 max watts, 400 max degrees on a 1.4 ohm coil has caused me a slight amoung to mouth and throat irritation which I'm determined to cure. I got out my N mini for the first time in several years and it was obvious there wouldn't be iirrittion problems with how I was using that but i'm done with tanks, and coil heads and tall atomizers. In the past few days I've been vaping temp control at 15 watts with a 3/10th second 17 watt preheat with 30 guage wire instead of the 28 i was using previously. For temp I'm wandering between 360 and 400 F but at low watts temp setting seems to be less important. I'm getting used to the differences and it's likely I'll stay with this indefinitely. Mouth irritation is on the wane, I'm using less power even though i take more puffs. i get the same or better throat hit by restricting the air and taking a slower draw. I'm lucky, vapor production and flavor are low priorities. I'm happy with a minimal amount of both. And I'm doing a dry cotton test every time i rewick and so far, with just a few tests, my pico is staying consistant.