New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[mikepetro]

Essentially what you are presenting is data that says vaping is not safe and produces carcinogens at temperatures above 450 or so that exceed the carcinogens produced by tobacco.

More/less. Phrased a different way, according this data, vaping is not safe above about 450F.

 

[Bonskibon]

Everybody relax.
Its not like your setup turns into a Carbonyl-spitting monster even if you don't use TC. As long as there is enough liquid on the wick and enough airflow, it cools down on itself without TC anyway.
I have not yet seen a serious analysis (one that does not dry burn the hell out of the atty) that detects more then trace amounts of Form/Acetaldehyde and I work in this field.

I'm relaxed, just trying to understand it all.

 

[beckdg]

LOL

Sub ohm creates less aldehydes than a burning ce4.

Who knew?!?!?

EHEM, little secret...
You can taste it.

Tapatyped

 

[pfaber11]

I'm not really sure what to make of this as cancer research UK did a long term study that showed 97% less carcinogens in smokers after switching to e cigs after six months of vaping . Is this study wrong , I doubt it .
On the plus side if you don't go over 200 degrees c then all is good . But how do you tell. I think I vape at a low temperature or at least the vape seems cool.
Vape on .

 

[mikepetro]

Everybody relax.
Its not like your setup turns into a Carbonyl-spitting monster even if you don't use TC. As long as there is enough liquid on the wick and enough airflow, it cools down on itself without TC anyway.
I have not yet seen a serious analysis (one that does not dry burn the hell out of the atty) that detects more then trace amounts of Form/Acetaldehyde and I work in this field.

This is not dry burning

At 10W people are clearly getting above the breakpoint where carcinogens start exceeding that of combustible tobacco.

 

[beckdg]

This is not dry burning

At 10W people are clearly getting above the breakpoint where carcinogens start exceeding that of combustible tobacco.

View attachment 639295

Yet at 25 watts on the subtank, it was less than 1% and less than 0.1% that of the ce4 at any power level.

WE NEED to stop thinking of this as a power related situation.

This is coil temperature dependent ONLY.

And thinner wire gets WAY HOTTER WAY FASTER. With FAR LESS POWER!!!!!!!!

This means TOOTLE PUFFERS are at a FAR HIGHER danger.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

I'm not really sure what to make of this as cancer research UK did a long term study that showed 97% less carcinogens in smokers after switching to e cigs after six months of vaping . Is this study wrong , I doubt it .
On the plus side if you don't go over 200 degrees c then all is good . But how do you tell. I think I vape at a low temperature or at least the vape seems cool.
Vape on .

There's more than these compounds.

We're talking 5 or 6 vs the thousands in cigarettes.

Tapatyped

 

[mikepetro]

I'm not really sure what to make of this as cancer research UK did a long term study that showed 97% less carcinogens in smokers after switching to e cigs after six months of vaping . Is this study wrong , I doubt it .
On the plus side if you don't go over 200 degrees c then all is good . But how do you tell. I think I vape at a low temperature or at least the vape seems cool.
Vape on .

The only way to know is to use a TC device. I vape quite enjoyably in the 420F- 450F range.

As for the UK study, which I also think is valid, that study looked at all the carcinogens associated with tobacco.

These studies were only looking two specific carcinogens, formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde. Which indeed are much lower exposure than cigarettes as long you stay under 470F, but above that the exposure can be 10 times that of cigarettes.

 

[beckdg]

The only way to know is to use a TC device. I vape quite enjoyably in the 420F- 450F range.

As for the UK study, which I also think is valid, that study looked at all the carcinogens associated with tobacco.

These studies were only looking two specific carcinogens, formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde. Which indeed are much lower exposure than cigarettes as long you stay under 470F, but above that the exposure can be 10 times that of cigarettes.

Kurt said you can taste it.

I agree.

Tapatyped

 

[cigatron]

Mechs, particularly with a fresh battery, are probably one of the riskier devices. You simply dont have any control over what temps you are hitting.

Well actually you do with afc and draw effort.

 

[mikepetro]

Kurt said you can taste it.

I agree.

Tapatyped

Probably valid, for an experienced vapor. Not sure about the noobs though.

 

[mikepetro]

Well actually you do with afc and draw effort.

OK, you can influence temp by draw and saturation, but you arent controlling it to remain within the safe range, you are only guessing.

 

[beckdg]

Essentially what you are presenting is data that says vaping is not safe and produces carcinogens at temperatures above 450 or so that exceed the carcinogens produced by tobacco.

Hopefully no-one is saying vaping IS SAFE.

Hopefully we're all saying vaping IS SAFER than smoking.

Tapatyped

 

[Caihlen]

Vaping is bad. Don't vape. M-Kay?

 

[beckdg]

Mechs, particularly with a fresh battery, are probably one of the riskier devices. You simply dont have any control over what temps you are hitting.

Meh... build to temperature.

Once the coil is installed, there's no button you can hit to accidentally go from 10 Watts to 240 Watts without noticing.

Tapatyped

 

[GeorgeS]

Ahhh I guess there was good reason for me toodle puffing between 380-430F.

Interesting that the CE4 was bad at all power levels and the Nautilus could be seemingly ok.

 

[beckdg]

Probably valid, for an experienced vapor. Not sure about the noobs though.

And some (probably many) veterans.

Think of all the people that come back after years looking for their 1st and second gen gear they love...

And all the folks ready to help because they still use it and know where to get it.

Wasn't long ago, the last discussion on ce4's.

Tapatyped

 

[mikepetro]

Meh... build to temperature.

Once the coil is installed, there's no button you can hit to accidentally go from 10 Watts to 240 Watts without noticing.

Tapatyped

Is someone is doing the math via a calculator or whatever, they can probably hit a range. However how many mech user do the math? Most I know just build fat azz coils and stick them in there.

 

[Bonskibon]

When I first started vaping I used the ce4's and they never tasted right to me. I think I still have a couple laying around somewhere.

 

[beckdg]

Hopefully this will get the ball rolling dispelling some widely held preconceived notions.



Thanks for posting this @mikepetro.

And special thanks to @Kurt.

Tapatyped