New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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iClear 16
Thanks to @Mazinny I had a bunch of iClear16s to test.
Used a red hot sewing needle to make small hole in tank to thread probe. Made small knot as a "strain relief" to keep probe from getting pulled out.
This is at 3.9v, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:
This was at 6w, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:
And finally, the full data:
Thanks to @Mazinny I had a bunch of iClear16s to test.
- Stock dual coil 2.1 ohm
- VV tested on a Provari
- VW tested ona Vamo
- 40/40/10 PG/VG/Flavoring used, 36mgml
- Standard NIST traceable Thermocouple test bench
Used a red hot sewing needle to make small hole in tank to thread probe. Made small knot as a "strain relief" to keep probe from getting pulled out.
This is at 3.9v, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:
This was at 6w, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:
And finally, the full data:
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People weren't vaping at much above 7 watts when this came out. I was using a standard Ego ( 3.7 v ) so approximately 6.5 watts, and it was plenty of vapor for me at the time. Huge improvement over the CE4, which was the clearo i was using before the Iclear 16.
The two most interesting things i take from these tests are :iClear 16
Thanks to @Mazinny I had a bunch of iClear16s to test.
Was tricky to insert probe, inserted probe on top of bottom coil:
- Stock dual coil 2.1 ohm
- VV tested on a Provari
- VW tested ona Vamo
- 40/40/10 PG/VG/Flavoring used, 36mgml
- Standard NIST traceable Thermocouple test bench
Used a red hot sewing needle to make small hole in tank to thread probe. Made small knot as a "strain relief" to keep probe from getting pulled out.
This is at 3.9v, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:
This was at 6w, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:
And finally, the full data:
1- The point you made in your notes that chain vaping only slightly increased temperature, and
2- How much cooler the coil is with the provari at ( what's supposed to be ) similar power levels.
I "wonder" if the Provari fared better because it was fuller tank, I tested it first, and I didnt refill before doing the Vamo.
Perhaps. Maybe the Ego/510 adapter had something to do with it as well.
Did you notice any difference in taste ?
Ahhhh yes, that adapter!
TBH after testing so many samples, the taste isnt sticking out in my head.
So, I just did a test of both devices at 4v each to see how they compare.
- Both devices set at 4v
- Tank about 1/4 full
- Provari was actually marginally hotter (adapter?)
- Filled tank
- Provari temp dropped (3rd/4th hit was flooded, thats why it looks funny)
Well the second test seems to indicate you are probably right about how full the tank is. The provari is hitting quite a bit higher temperatures than it did in the earlier tests you did. Also, the Vamo may not be completely accurate, since it's actually hitting slightly lower temperatures than it was earlier ( 4v should be approximately 7.5 watts, and it hit higher temperatures at 7.5 watts in your previous testing ).
This sure reinforces the observation earlier that it is critical to keep top coil tanks topped off. Thanks Mike!
People were also more likely to be vaping 70pg/30vg when the CE4s came out and temps would have been lower with that mix.
Use temp control and dont go above 450Fish if you want to minimize exposure.
OK, they published this data publicly now about the spike of formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde (both carcinogens) spiking way up past safe levels starting around 470F-480F.
Temperature Control is IMPORTANT folks!
Start about 6 minutes in:
Turns out VG is worse than PG with regards to formaldehyde:
A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents
Even tootle puffers at 10W are reaching temps above 470F
This is PG, carcinogen level starts rising around 480F
This is VG, carcinogens start rising around 410F
This is our common 50/50 pg/vg mix, carcinogens start rising at around 470F
The rise in carcinogens above 470F exceeds what is available in regular cigarettes.
Below 470 the levels are negligible.
ETA:
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This thread stirred a lot of controversy. In an attempt to actually prove, based on "sound" technique, what was going on inside our attys, a series of tests were performed. Here is a list of links you might find interesting:
Best Practices to avoid high temps on VV/VW mods.
VV & VW Mod Temperature Variables
Capillary action of silica vs rayon
Actual temperatures inside a Vivi Nova on both VV and VW devices.
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig.
Juice Boiling Point and Vaping Temperatures
Real Life temp measurements inside a 2016 era atty
Please please help I'm scared I have baby smok coil at 55 watts 200f eleaf I power am i at risk
Not enough information to know. WHat kind of atty/coil are you running.
Your Mod is capable of Temperature control. Get the right atty for it and then run in temp instead of in watts.
I found out smoktech doesn't actually make TC coils... crazy. I feel for all the peeps using wattage, esp with commercial juice... Idk if i could go back to without TC. I'd def. not be able to use cotton, probably have to switch back to SS mesh.
Actually this brings up another good point for TC. TC largely avoids dry hits, if your tank runs dry you just get an anemic hit rather than a dry hit.
Dry hits can top 1000f easily, making them especially bad in giving off nasties. I think it is fairly safe to say there are far more nasties in a dry hit than in smoking. Maybe not as big a list of nasties, but much much higher levels of the ones that are present.
Dry hits can top 1000f easily, making them especially bad in giving off nasties. I think it is fairly safe to say there are far more nasties in a dry hit than in smoking. Maybe not as big a list of nasties, but much much higher levels of the ones that are present.
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