New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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2nd time this week I've been rendered speechless here on ECF. Which, coincidentally, also happen to be the only two times that's ever happened in my entire life.
I should probably call a doctor.
Standing ovation, @mikepetro & @Katdarling!
I should probably call a doctor.
Standing ovation, @mikepetro & @Katdarling!
Perhaps if I explain what I mean a little better....
I did not mean testing the coil in isolation, I meant wicked and juiced up, just removing the airflow element.
I tested a very similar coil to the 2.1 Ohm 30AWG Kanthal build that you tested and got very similar results, I suspect this particular coil was getting very close to its maximum temperature it would reach at the power levels you tested it at. That why the temp was not continuing to rise significantly when you chain vaped at the end of the test.
The airflow element is going to be very difficult to quantify and the overall temperature reached is only really useful if you do 3 second pulls at pretty much exactly the same rate as you do.
I would have thought as long as you know the basics about the make up of the coil and what it is wicked with, you should be able to measure a juiced up coil in an open rda and get a good approximation of the temperature reached without having to spend loads of time and effort threading a delicate thermocouple through each individual device. What I mean is that a similar coil will hit similar temperatures at any given power level, it really does not matter too much what its housed in. Its the combination of wire type and power level that is the main issue
My thoughts are that most people just want to know what the maximum power level they should be using with each coil is. If the coil hits a maximum of 450F then the airflow and cooling that provides could be viewed as a safety buffer.
OK, I understand what you are saying better now.
I will try the same coil/atty using both methods and see what the results are......
How can I help? [emoji14]2nd time this week I've been rendered speechless here on ECF. Which, coincidentally, also happen to be the only two times that's ever happened in my entire life.
I should probably call a doctor.
[emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]
Standing ovation, @mikepetro & @Katdarling!
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By the way PM me your paypal details and I will send you some money to help cover the costs of the thermocouples.
I think what you are doing is worth the time and effort.
Keeping the temp down could be very important, I've looked into a decent quality temp control squonker and they are expensive..... If I can keep my temp within acceptable limits without going down that road I would rather do that. I really don't like the idea of my juice bottle living right next door to the PCB. Its just asking for trouble....
In my case, I'm looking for an idea of the temperature level my coils reach when used much like I use them. Although it is subjective, a representative airflow level with an explanation of method is very useful. Without considering airflow one may feel forced to vape at a lower power level than is necessary, creating an inadequate vape.
As one who vapes with limited airflow, I can see the additional benefit of knowing where a coil temp levels out before considering it. One more piece of the puzzle to stay at safer temp levels with kanthal and nichrome!
I know, I know, just use TC, problem solved
As one who vapes with limited airflow, I can see the additional benefit of knowing where a coil temp levels out before considering it. One more piece of the puzzle to stay at safer temp levels with kanthal and nichrome!
I know, I know, just use TC, problem solved
I'm not quite sure, exactly, but I'm pretty sure it costs seven bucks, regardless of direction?
I know, I know, just use TC, problem solved
She does indeed, Sir. Now, if you're interested (in between chart making and mad sciencing), you can certainly enroll at the ECF University and take some courses in KatSpeak. Tiz a tongue all its own, ya know.
A little bit of catnip, a little bit of petting, you'll never even see the "probe" finding its way into the atty......
Describe your vaping style, I still have your atty here.In my case, I'm looking for an idea of the temperature level my coils reach when used much like I use them. Although it is subjective, a representative airflow level with an explanation of method is very useful. Without considering airflow one may feel forced to vape at a lower power level than is necessary, creating an inadequate vape.
As one who vapes with limited airflow, I can see the additional benefit of knowing where a coil temp levels out before considering it. One more piece of the puzzle to stay at safer temp levels with kanthal and nichrome!
I know, I know, just use TC, problem solved
MTL, tight draw, about a 3 second puff. I've even been able to dial down the airflow on an Ego One to suit me once I substituted a smaller inner diameter drip tip. Guess I'm just a sucker for a vape lol!
I'm running an Ego One CL 1 ohm coil right now at a whopping 10 watts and it matches up with my Vivi Nova 2.4 ohm at 4.8 watts if that helps. Airflow slot is open a bit more than the head of a pin.
I'm running an Ego One CL 1 ohm coil right now at a whopping 10 watts and it matches up with my Vivi Nova 2.4 ohm at 4.8 watts if that helps. Airflow slot is open a bit more than the head of a pin.
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Hmmm, ok, what you sent me was a VV Nova. Did the results not answer your questions on that one.
What would have needed to have been done different?
OK, My Commentary:
First, you will notice a different format than my previous tests. Today's test represents about 9 solid hours of testing, it takes time to figure out how to insert the tiny probes in those tiny cartridges, and still be able to actually vape the device, lots of trial and error. Anyway, it would have added another hour or three if I would have included all the pretty pictures and graphs. Those of of you who have followed along are aware of the methodology and the equipment I use. If you are just joining the party, please view this blog for details on how I am performing my testing.
The way I rigged this particular atty was I heated a sewing needle red hot and made a tiny hole in the tank to slip the probe through. Then I inserted the probe inside the coil.
The results of the test show representative temperatures, when using a VV or VW device, for 3 different stock coils on the Vivi Nova 2.5, while possibly similar they DO NOT represent any other atty or coil.
- High temperatures are definitely possible without tasting anything bad.
- Chain vaping SIGNIFICANTLY increased temperature
- Wick saturation could be very finicky, if wick wasnt saturated it SIGNIFICANTLY increased temperature. It is IMPERATIVE that you do the swirl, or genny tilt, or some method to make sure each and every hit starts with a fully saturated wick.
- Tank level had significant affect on temperature, presumably related to wick saturation
- Low mass of coil allowed almost complete cool down in 1 minute, so wait at least a minute between puffs.Chain puffing is VERY bad, high temperatures are almost assured.
- Making voltage adjustments (on the Provari, might not be applicable to other mods) did send voltage to the mod while adjusting, so if you made an adjustment and instantly hit it, it was the similar to a chain vape, ie high temp.
- VW hits were much more consistent from hit to hit, where temp on VV varying a lot more at the same settings.
All of that being said, I do remind those who are interested in the safest vape possible, that these devices are NOT the best choice.
Lets set the controversial Wang Study aside for a second, though I still believe there is something to it. Our own Dr Kurt PhD, @Kurt here on ECF, who is very much an emissary for vaping, has clearly shown that Gen 2 (ie top coil) devices are not the best choice.
View attachment 660581
View attachment 660579
^^^^^^^^^^
Formaldehyde Emissions EXCEEDED SMOKING
at ANY power level!
To each their own vape, having the information to make informed decisions is good too!
Nothing is needed, I just find it useful to see at what point different coils reach their max temp. If there was a magic coil that wouldn't cross the 450f mark without airflow factored in, it would seem to be a safer choice to start for this tight draw MTL'er.
i'm looking at 660471. more ohms makes higher temp. this is reverse of what happens in my rig. 3 ohms would barely make vapor. what is it that i don't get?
Resistance is not the only factor, the mass of the coil makes a big difference to the temperature. Thinner wires and therefore smaller coils with less mass get hotter, faster. In that example the coil wires were very thin, you are probably running a much chunkier coil, with much thicker wires, it will require a lot more power to heat the larger mass.
Seeing this topic continually on what is the front page of ECF just pisses me off, we get it... Don't overheat and no problems... Enough said, shut this down already or move it to a better forum like vaping/health...
I'm sure if you contact administration they will refund your membership fees...
Oh, wait...
This is on the front because people are interested and involved.
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That's the beauty of a forum - each of us gets to choose what to read. If a thread makes you uncomfortable, it's easy to use the ignore function so you don't have to see it when you look at new posts. Clicking on the Ignore Thread link is all it takes - It's right up at the top of the page next to thread tools!
There will always be vapers who want to know more and those who don't. No need to get all riled up.
There will always be vapers who want to know more and those who don't. No need to get all riled up.
Looking at this on a tablet, out of town rest of the week.
What is 660471?
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