New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[RedForeman]

You might want to take a quick look at Mikes blog https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/mike-petros-blog-index.7875/unread

Thanks for this link, and thanks to @mikepetro for doing all the hard work posted there. Unlike the OP (linked test results) on this thread, I could easily draw parallels between his own test results and my own vaping gear and habits. Which were pretty interesting. Or self validating, depending on how you see it.

The contents of that blog should be in a sticky post for reference.

Edited to add: I see this thread is a sticky. I meant the blog containing Mike's testing. Probably more relevant and meaningful than the contents of post #1 in this thread.

 

[mikepetro]

Very interesting...

 

[Eskie]

Very interesting...

Thanks, Mike. He identified just about all the issues we've been tossing around here. I wish there were more data if temperatures to harmful products from vaping, but it appears the basis for next steps in research is well established, and hopefully we'll see research on that begin to trickle in.

 

[mikepetro]

Just added a "Melo 4 Sub Ohm" tank with stock EC2 0.3 ohm coils to the testing queue.

 

[Boobsley]

Not sure if this is where to ask, but I can't seem to make heads or tails of evolve as fare as setting up a profile for my ss430.
I did manage to get the profile set up with the manual tcr.00138 I think.
That just gives me a cold vape then temp regulated comes up. It doesn't even seem like it's working, but I do blow some vaper.
When I run my 430 with the Ti coefficient it seems to work fine. What gives?

 

[mikepetro]

I use Steam Engine works well for me. Select your wire then click the DNA200 link and download the CSV file and import the full TFR into Escribe.

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-58.0000,0.9034000000
68.0000,1.0000000000
212.0000,1.1104000000
302.0000,1.1794000000
392.0000,1.2484000000
482.0000,1.3174000000
572.0000,1.3864000000
800.0000,1.5612000000

 

[mikepetro]

My new Thermocouple Data Acquisition device works well. A lot better than my old method. I can capture up to 8 probes at once, and it automatically logs everything to CSV while capturing a sample every 1/10th (or even faster)of a second.

 

[Rossum]

My new Thermocouple Data Acquisition device works well. A lot better than my old method. I can capture up to 6 probes at once, and it automatically logs everything to CSV while capturing a sample every 1/10th (or even faster)of a second.

Whatdaya git?

 

[mikepetro]

Whatdaya git?

Omega TC-08

 

[Rossum]

Omega TC-08

Sweet!

 

[mikepetro]

OK, worked on the Nautilus today. This is by far the hardest one yet. I got the VV test done, the VW will have to wait for tomorrow. My frustration level is too high to continue and expect good results.

The challenge is that the probe is precariously placed next to the coil. It falls out of there real easy. So then you have to open it back up to reposition the probe. Keep in mind the probe is also strung through the driptip and chimney tube of the tank. So opening it back up with a half tank of juice, and keeping the tank from tipping over and spilling, while positioning the probe back in the tiny coil was a juggling act. I spilled a lot of juice today.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Wow. That 1.8 Ohm Coil sure does seem to Run Hot at 3.9v and above. Kinda a Shocker cause 3.9v @ 1.8 Ohms is Only 8.5 watts or so.

 

[Eskie]

Wow. That 1.8 Ohm Coil sure does seem to Run Hot at 3.9v and above. Kinda a Shocker cause 3.9v @ 1.8 Ohms is Only 8.5 watts or so.

And it's one of the most popular tootle coils out there with folks using it between 8 and 12W regularly, including me.

 

[Mowgli]

SWMBO uses her 1.8Ω Nauti mini at 5.3v with afc wfo

It keeps her from smoking.

 

[AkiraFZ]

I am not sure if I understood correctly because of my language understanding. So correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are talking about.

Here are what I read we should do at the moment:
1. use TC mode
2. set the temperature below 450F
3. use SS wire because other TC wires could also harm you

 

[mikepetro]

I am not sure if I understood correctly because of my language understanding. So correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are talking about.

Here are what I read we should do at the moment:
1. use TC mode
2. set the temperature below 450F
3. use SS wire because other TC wires could also harm you

I would agree with the first two points wholeheartedly.

As for SS, I am not a metallurgist, but I have read up on the wires I use. I think SS is probably a good choice for someone new to TC, but I am comfortable with other wires too once you learn what you are doing. The trick is to read up on the metal and find out at what temp it creates dangerous oxides and stay below that temp. Even SS can give off bad stuff if you make it red/white hot.

"If" you are using TC then you wont get any dry hits. Assuming that, then I am comfortable with using TI wire (as well as NI, or TU, SS, etc). The dangerous oxides in TI only come out at temperatures well over 1000f, if you dont have any dry hits you wont ever see that kind of temp. You dont want to dry burn the coils above 1000f either though. With TI, if you see any powder on the surface of the wire you got too hot and need to throw that coil away.

The key with most TC wires is dont let them get over 1000f, I stay in the 700f-900f range.

• Prevent dry hits, a good TC mod prevents that.
  
• Dont dry burn (to clean your coil) above 1000f.

 

[awsum140]

You're correct with points one andtwo, AkirafZ. Nickel and titanium are both safe at temperatures below ~800F so if you're set at 450F, or lower, no real problem there. I don't want to contradict Mike, but I'm not comfortable going over 800F and never dry burn any coil, TC or conventional. Titanium can produce oxides at high temperatures, but even then the documented case of cancer was in a person exposed to huge levels of dust in his working environment and he was a heavy tobacco user as well. I'm not familiar enough with tungsten or NiFE to offer any advice on them other than what Mike mentions.

 

[GeorgeS]

I'm a firm believer/user of single wire, single or dual coil with anything but SS TC wire. (Ni, Ti, NiFe)

While most my builds these days are with NiFe48 flat wire, I do have a few Ni200 and Ti01 builds in service.

 

[mikepetro]

Ok, finished up the Nautilus today (thanks to @englishmick for the atty).

This one was a challenge. Here is what it looked like when the probe fell out of its hole and I had to reposition it. Then put it all back together without knocking the probe out again.

Example sample reading:

And final results:

Will add it to the blog in the next couple days. Right now I have a RSST to look at.

 

[mikepetro]

View attachment 671217 mike; would you expect a temperature difference between these coils? on the right is my standard which you have already tested(2ohm,32g). on the left 2ohm,28g. in steam engine the left coil is blue and the right coil is red but i perceive more heat from the left coil even though ramp time is doubled. cap heats up faster on the left coil (mass i suppose). someone noted that water content was left out of the 18 variables,which made me think of the variable of coil mass. i'm still seeking less coil temp.
could you test this?

@homeuser6 is this still the build you want tested? Or have you moved from this build? If so, how many wraps was it?