New study shows vaping by teens leads to using the real thing

Status
Not open for further replies.

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
62
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
I think that's probably a link that needs to be broken, since every *legitimate* "study" shows that if teens are vaping, they're pretty much all smokers or former smokers -- and damn few of them. A teen may try a puff or two, but that doesn't make them a "vaper" -- it makes them a curious teenaged human.

Andria
 

B2L

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 14, 2012
7,844
45,313
Jacksonville, FL
I loved cigarettes, the taste, the physiological effects, the act of smoking, but soon after I started vaping I couldn't stand the smell of someone's cigarette at all. Even the lingering smell well after they had finished smoking turned my stomach.

I know that's anectodatal evidence, and it may be different for some, but I just can't buy the lame argument that vaping leads to smoking. That's like saying drinking soda leads to being an alcoholic. It's a straw man argument conceived to "save the children" and protect financial interests.

Just my :2c:
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
62
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
I loved cigarettes, the taste, the physiological effects, the act of smoking, but soon after I started vaping I couldn't stand the smell of someone's cigarette at all. Even the lingering smell well after they had finished smoking turned my stomach.

I know that's anectodatal evidence, and it may be different for some, but I just can't buy the lame argument that vaping leads to smoking. That's like saying drinking water leads to being an alcoholic. It's a straw man argument conceived to "save the children" and protect financial interests.

Just my :2c:

I agree, but I think it's actually more like, eating filet mignon leads to raiding dumpsters. :D

Andria
 

kakiser56

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 11, 2014
130
145
New Hope, PA
I think that's probably a link that needs to be broken, since every *legitimate* "study" shows that if teens are vaping, they're pretty much all smokers or former smokers -- and damn few of them. A teen may try a puff or two, but that doesn't make them a "vaper" -- it makes them a curious teenaged human.

Andria

The article was basically pointing out that the conclusions that people were drawing from the study aren't supported by the study, and even the study authors agree.
 

pennysmalls

Squonkmeister
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 26, 2013
3,138
8,472
51
Indiana
What we need is a study done asking never smokers to try cigarettes for a few days and then vaping for a few days. Yes, actually ask people who've never smoked to smoke, in the name of science. Then ask the participants which one they would choose if they were to take either one of them up on a daily basis. We all know how that would go and age wouldn't matter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndriaD

motordude

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 1, 2015
1,386
6,264
58
VA, USA
It doesn’t say that, of course, and other studies have already shown e-cigarettes can actually help existing smokers kick their cigarette habit and otherwise improve public health by cutting down on liter and second-hand smoke. By helping smokers quit, e-cigarettes might even save Medicaid from bankruptcy.

But the facts don’t seem to have gotten in the way of a good story.

Someone who actually reads this study fo what it is. Propaganda for extremist.
 

zapped

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 30, 2009
6,056
10,545
54
Richmond, Va...Right in Altria's back yard.
Im confused.

Smoking is more real than vaping?

I appreciate you posting the link to this article but implying that vaping is less than smoking in the title of this thread is self defeating and helps to reinforce negative and untrue stereotypes.

To me, and many others as well, vaping is the real thing.

Cigarettes are the fakes.
 

kakiser56

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 11, 2014
130
145
New Hope, PA
Im confused.

Smoking is more real than vaping?

I appreciate you posting the link to this article but implying that vaping is less than smoking in the title of this thread is self defeating and helps to reinforce negative and untrue stereotypes.

To me, and many others as well, vaping is the real thing.

Cigarettes are the fakes.

Sorry I meant to say real or actual cigarettes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zapped

Jman8

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 15, 2013
6,419
12,927
Wisconsin
"Could lead to" or "may lead to" is literally all they have to go on.

By this (exact) logic, one can show how the desire to study science could lead to world wide nuclear war. Just cause there's very little evidence of this happening, doesn't mean it can't happen.

Me, as dual user who's experienced cold turkey says let's take your ultimate conclusion, put it to the test, and then see 1 to 5 years after both have been tried which of the two activities (both of which you despise) do the young users prefer. I mean surely we can be honest on that data, right? Just kidding, I know ANTZ can't be honest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndriaD

Kent C

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 12, 2009
26,547
60,050
NW Ohio US
By helping smokers quit, e-cigarettes might even save Medicaid from bankruptcy.

Going to take more than ecigs.... the State Budget Solution's stats include 'premature death' in Table 2 under "lost productivity" :facepalm: which somehow is 1/3 of the smoking costs of Medicaid?

As mentioned in another thread, longer lives from smoking cessation are going to cost even more in healthcare. Although the 'argument' sounds good and probably works in our favor given what the public schools have done on 'comprehension' and logic.

This is more likely the tipping point of Medicaid bankruptcy:

"The good news, if you want to call it that, is that roughly 1.6 million Americans have enrolled in ObamaCare so far.

The not-so-good news is that 1.46 million of them actually signed up for Medicaid. If that trend continues, it could bankrupt both federal and state governments.

Medicaid is already America’s third-largest government program, trailing only Social Security and Medicare, as a proportion of the federal budget. Almost 8 cents out of every dollar that the federal government spends goes to Medicaid. That’s more than $265 billion per year.

Indeed, already Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid account for 48% of federal spending. Within the next few years, those three programs will eat up more than half of federal expenditures.

And it’s going to get worse. Congress has shown no ability to reform Social Security or Medicare. With ObamaCare adding to Medicare spending, we are picking up speed on the road to insolvency.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that, in part because of ObamaCare, Medicaid spending will more than double over the next 10 years, topping $554 billion by 2023.

And that is just federal spending.

State governments pay another $160 billion for Medicaid today. For most states, Medicaid is the single-largest cost of government, crowding out education, transportation and everything else.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/07/the-medicaid-time-bomb/
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
62
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
Going to take more than ecigs.... the State Budget Solution's stats include 'premature death' in Table 2 under "lost productivity" :facepalm: which somehow is 1/3 of the smoking costs of Medicaid?

As mentioned in another thread, longer lives from smoking cessation are going to cost even more in healthcare. Although the 'argument' sounds good and probably works in our favor given what the public schools have done on 'comprehension' and logic.

This is more likely the tipping point of Medicaid bankruptcy:

"The good news, if you want to call it that, is that roughly 1.6 million Americans have enrolled in ObamaCare so far.

The not-so-good news is that 1.46 million of them actually signed up for Medicaid. If that trend continues, it could bankrupt both federal and state governments.

Medicaid is already America’s third-largest government program, trailing only Social Security and Medicare, as a proportion of the federal budget. Almost 8 cents out of every dollar that the federal government spends goes to Medicaid. That’s more than $265 billion per year.

Indeed, already Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid account for 48% of federal spending. Within the next few years, those three programs will eat up more than half of federal expenditures.

And it’s going to get worse. Congress has shown no ability to reform Social Security or Medicare. With ObamaCare adding to Medicare spending, we are picking up speed on the road to insolvency.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that, in part because of ObamaCare, Medicaid spending will more than double over the next 10 years, topping $554 billion by 2023.

And that is just federal spending.

State governments pay another $160 billion for Medicaid today. For most states, Medicaid is the single-largest cost of government, crowding out education, transportation and everything else.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/07/the-medicaid-time-bomb/

Well then, our inability to afford insurance and our "making too much" to be eligible for medicaid makes me feel positively patriotic! :D

I was a little worried that with my husband's raises this year, we might make too much to qualify for the exemption to the Obamacare idiocy on our tax returns, but hey, Kaiser Permanente (the provider his work offers) did us a huge favor by raising the rates, so I'm sure we'll still qualify for the exemption. :D

Andria
 

Kent C

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 12, 2009
26,547
60,050
NW Ohio US
Well then, our inability to afford insurance and our "making too much" to be eligible for medicaid makes me feel positively patriotic! :D

I was a little worried that with my husband's raises this year, we might make too much to qualify for the exemption to the Obamacare idiocy on our tax returns, but hey, Kaiser Permanente (the provider his work offers) did us a huge favor by raising the rates, so I'm sure we'll still qualify for the exemption. :D

Andria

Hard telling how 'current' employer based plans will go. If I were an employer, I'd send everyone to Obamacare and pay the fine - it's cheaper. That said, I don't 'blame' anyone for taking advantage of gov't aid. I'd encourage them to find another solution, though - welfare kills spirits, although sometimes keeps the body alive. I blame gov't for making it available. :- )
 
  • Like
Reactions: B2L

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
62
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
Hard telling how 'current' employer based plans will go. If I were an employer, I'd send everyone to Obamacare and pay the fine - it's cheaper. That said, I don't 'blame' anyone for taking advantage of gov't aid. I'd encourage them to find another solution, though - welfare kills spirits, although sometimes keeps the body alive. I blame gov't for making it available. :- )

Well Ga is one of the states that isn't increasing Medicaid coverage in line with Obamacare -- even if the employer "sent" us to medicaid, we still couldn't get it. YAY! I don't wanna sit in a whole room FULL of screaming brats and spanish at the top of their mama's voices.

You'd think if they're so hot to live in America THEY'D LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!!

:facepalm:
Andria
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,973
San Diego
You'd think if they're so hot to live in America THEY'D LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!!
Pet Peeve of mine.

If you move to a new country, feel free to speak whatever language you want.
We've got people in the community where I live that speak many languages.

German, Mexican, Russian, Chinese, and maybe others I haven't met yet.
Thankfully, all of them speak English as well.

But don't ever expect taxpayers to accommodate you if you don't want to learn the language.
There is something very wrong with that.
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
62
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
Pet Peeve of mine.

If you move to a new country, feel free to speak whatever language you want.
We've got people in the community where I live that speak many languages.

German, Mexican, Russian, Chinese, and maybe others I haven't met yet.
Thankfully, all of them speak English as well.

But don't ever expect taxpayers to accommodate you if you don't want to learn the language.
There is something very wrong with that.

The foreign language is only half of the problem, IMO... the other half is that they're SCREAMING! I understand that "latin" people are more excitable, but they really need to learn how to behave in this culture, with some dignity and decorum. If people in a public setting start screaming in English, they're generally asked to simmer down or leave -- but somehow, the fact that they're screaming in spanish makes them exempt from the usual rules of public decorum? I don't think so.

There are a lot of asian people in our neck of the woods, too -- but somehow, they all manage to speak English -- despite the fact that their language doesn't even use the same characters as ours -- but the people speaking spanish expect everyone to cater to them? That irks the hell out of me.

Andria
 

Kent C

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 12, 2009
26,547
60,050
NW Ohio US
With expecting taxpayers to accommodate.

Ok... got it.

I always found Godfather part 2 'in the early days' interesting. The 'don' was the one who knew English and was the "liaison" with the rest of the world. Many depended on him because of that. As people learn English, such a liaison isn't needed and holds less power over them.

It's the same 'reasoning' that didn't allow slaves to read. Now it's self-induced "slavery". :facepalm:

Pages of "unreadable" regulations have the same effect, too.
 

motordude

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 1, 2015
1,386
6,264
58
VA, USA
Medical costs will probably be the issue until something extreme is done.
I just watch my medical payouts and my costs continue to skyrocket. The affordable care act was a joke for someone like myself who has a chronic disease and private insurance until I am forced to go through all of my wife's retirement money. Then I can be available for a subsidy.
One of the disease maintenance drugs the Dr wants me to go on for Multiple Sclerosis is 50,000 dollars a year! Of coarse it will only cost me $1000 a month out of pocket.
ETA- I have already spent my retirement money over the last 15 years of disability.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread