Nicotine Comparisons

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52anddone

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I've been all over the Essential Depot website and can't find any info on whether the VG is Coconut Palm or what it is. I looked at their MSDS and COA and nothing related to what it is made from. The shipping is like $ 37 for just 1 Gallon each of RTS VG/PG to my house. Much better deal there at Essential Depot.
 

mhertz

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52anddone, you're welcome! Btw, ecx is nicselect nic from india, very good quality on paper, but can have a tobacco taste to it sometimes. Heartlands which you asked for previously to get in smaller size, I believe is the same, since they atleast once used them + someone recently told on another forum that he called nicselect US quaters and got it confirmed... Of course there can still be differences if one is more oxidized than the other or a bad batch etc, but anyways...

Also, you're right about the ED not listing source normally, and I've looked ALOT around, but recently I read somewhere can't remember where, there where questions and answers about the product, one beeing if it was from soy(like bulk apothecary, but not that it matter, though - EDIT: Sorry, don't know, mixed it up with duda diesel) and it was declined and said to be palm based... It was probably a soy-intolerant person unaware about soy-vg not to be an issue...

Lastly, you're right in that its hard to pinpoint nic differences in 3 mg! :) I also had a very hard time about that, and hence, why I upped the nic and now I actually can better pinpoint it, since I actually know what i'm looking for and not stabbing in the blind or how it's expressed.

Also, nice to meet you too, Blake! :)
 
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mhertz

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Sorry guys, in my previous post I stated bulk apothecary vg(nature's oil brand) originating from soy, but I can see now that I mixed them up with duda diesel, and don't know what bulk apothecary vg originates from, sorry(haven't done much investigation on it, though)...

Just wanted to clear that up, so as to not be hold up on it later on :)

Btw, these 3; ED, BA and DD are the most popular bulk vg providers for it's great prices and good products in the states among the ECF crowd I believe...
 

52anddone

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I told ya'll that I was trying out a 30ml bottle of 3mg/ml 50/50 pre-mix Unflavored from ECX. The first thing I noticed was that the ECX 50/50 pre-mix was a lot thinner than My 50/50 mixes of MBV and RTS, I noticed that on the first shake before I filled my Cthulhu V2, and looked on the bottle again just to make sure that I got what I asked for. That was last night. Then tonight I was reading on page 118 of this thread:

I just got a liter of VG 100mg from ECX and its clear and not overwhelming strong in taste or odor (does have a TH though)..
My complaints are that its thin ?? I've bougt a lot of different types of Nic and when I refrigerate the ECX and compare it to any of the others its thin more like 80/20. Also it's a bit shy of 1L and more like a quart..

so I guess that ECX is still adding DW to their VG ?? I don't know what to think about that at this time, but, it should wick a whole lot better here (Minnesota) in the winter than MY 50/50 mixes will. I know that Jeremy said:

Its purified water.. Many do it with VG nicbase it is annoying as hell cause they don't even tell you how much it's diluted. I always go for the thicker vg NICs that have less water added.

They do it so it blends easier preventing nic hot spots.

he also said:

Well many will add water.. It doesn't have pg so they say 100vg... I thought wizard labs VG nic was really thin compared to what I was used to..

IMO this can affect quality and storage oxidation

So has anyone had any problems with long term storage as of yet, or any problems due to the DW in ECX's VG ?

I'm asking cause I will be starting to buy in bulk for long term storage (Nic, VG/PG not pre-mix), and am at this moment testing out ECX and RTS. At this time I am still not sure if I will be getting my Nic in PG or VG, haven't decided, or thought that far ahead.
 

sketchness

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I would not want to purchase any nic that obviously had DW added to it.

I have some 100mg pg nic from wizard labs that is more than a year old. It has turned pink. I have read that this is a result of the purge gas in the pure nicotine tank. It is still pretty decent at 6mg. Haven't sampled any at 10mg in a while.

Plain vaping Carolina extract at 8mg here and there. Really love that stuff. And they spend time removing any water from the vg for 20+ hours.
 

mhertz

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Firstly, kudos on making it through the first 118 pages, so your soon fully catched up, that shows real determination, mate! :)

Second, sorry I don't have experince specifically with ecx, but I remember the comments about it beeing thin and that they replied back to him swearing that they didn't add dw? I just found an older thread with someone stating the same observation, mailing them, and gotten a reply back that they did add dw! That was an old post though, from end of 2012...

Many of us add water to our mixes, including me, so they wick better, but we prefer generally to not have the bases pre-diluted down, because water added, adds O2 and O2 is the enemy of nic and makes it react i.e. oxidize. Also the good thing about getting nic base in vg, besides being able to make higher vg percent max-vg mixes, or 100% vg, is it's thicker viscosity, which makes it hold up better against oxidation when freezing for long term storage and that is hindered by adding water. Second, as allready said, it's highly annoying to not know how much is added and not labelling it correctly with the amount dw used!
 
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mhertz

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OK, I feel like such an idiot now, but after all my talkings about there not being any difference in USP grade vg, then there was a taste I had forgotten now since I haden't had it for some months and I did get it just now and what was the thing that had changed; new vg batch from other vendor not used in a couple of month! :) I had tasted direct the vg when I got it and didn't noticed anything out of the ordinary, just the warm sweet mild taste like syrup, but with the first hit of the dripper I immidiatelly got that famillar taste back, which I haden't had in months. Though it's very slight, but still there, and I use unflavored, or else I don't think I would have noticed! I know it sounds stupid, but it's a slight aftertaste of something reminding of vanilla and milk, like vanilla ice cream maybe(before you ask, the wick/coil has only been used with unflavored :) ) Also a little less sweet, but still the very slight sourness i've recently learned all vg posesses also. The previous vg had a more powerfull sweetness and also a little more powerfull sourness, guess that's what you guys call tangy I believe? - but otherwise neutral. As I use unflavored with only 3mg and 10% water, I can really notice the nuances out of the vg and especially with a dripper, lung-hitting dual 3mm 24g KA1 at 60 watts.

I apologize for disregarding other people allready stating as such :)

Additionally the vapor isn't as dense so it must be watered down more and it also feels a very slight bit lesser viscosity...

Btw, not that it relates to anything, but just simply a little trivia, I read that vg is made from plant oils by adding pressure, heat and water, and this makes the glycerol split from the 3 fatty acids in each triglyceride and be absorbed in the water and so later on the glycerol and water solution is distilled down to remove as much water as possible, but all water can never fully be removed and that's why we get USP 99.5+ percent vg...
 
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52anddone

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I would not want to purchase any nic that obviously had DW added to it.

I have some 100mg pg nic from wizard labs that is more than a year old. It has turned pink. I have read that this is a result of the purge gas in the pure nicotine tank. It is still pretty decent at 6mg. Haven't sampled any at 10mg in a while.

Plain vaping Carolina extract at 8mg here and there. Really love that stuff. And they spend time removing any water from the vg for 20+ hours.

That is what I now wonder, Do they add DW or don't they ? It seems that ECX doesn't want to disclose any of their secrets. I like the sample I got from them but if I might not be able to store it long term then I'm sure I can look somewhere else. RTS is one that I do like, of course I got their 36mg/ml nic in PG (my first nic purchase) a week or two ago. I'll just keep looking I guess. Does Carolina Extract have sample bottles, like the 30ml I got from ECX ? I was on their site for just a bit and didn't see any samples that I remember.
 

sketchness

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That is what I now wonder, Do they add DW or don't they ? It seems that ECX doesn't want to disclose any of their secrets. I like the sample I got from them but if I might not be able to store it long term then I'm sure I can look somewhere else. RTS is one that I do like, of course I got their 36mg/ml nic in PG (my first nic purchase) a week or two ago. I'll just keep looking I guess. Does Carolina Extract have sample bottles, like the 30ml I got from ECX ? I was on their site for just a bit and didn't see any samples that I remember.

They have a 120ml sample bottle. Shipping is a bit expensive. Well it is pretty expensive period. It is about 25 with discount code shipped. And they only have 100mg and 48mg samples. They are both the same price? So 100mg is the better deal. Ships in glass with dropper. It is definitely a smooth no so if you are looking for big throat hit there may be better options. However for smooth th mild flavor it is my fave.

Edit Dada1 coupon code for 10% off, lessened the pain of shipping. Especially on a liter
 
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52anddone

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Firstly, kudos on making it through the first 118 pages, so your soon fully catched up, that shows real determination, mate! :)

Second, sorry I don't have experince specifically with ecx, but I remember the comments about it beeing thin and that they replied back to him swearing that they didn't add dw? I just found an older thread with someone stating the same observation, mailing them, and gotten a reply back that they did add dw! That was an old post though, from end of 2012...

Many of us add water to our mixes, including me, so they wick better, but we prefer generally to not have the bases pre-diluted down, because water added, adds O2 and O2 is the enemy of nic and makes it react i.e. oxidize. Also the good thing about getting nic base in vg, besides being able to make higher vg percent max-vg mixes, or 100% vg, is it's thicker viscosity, which makes it hold up better against oxidation when freezing for long term storage and that is hindered by adding water. Second, as allready said, it's highly annoying to not know how much is added and not labelling it correctly with the amount dw used!

Thanks for that, I figure that in a few more days I'll be all caught up. To you're knowledge does anyone add DW to PG bases also, or just VG bases ? I know I have seen Kurt post that he gets his nic base in VG but can't remember if he ever stored any ECX VG base. I'm think'in I will get some RTS 36mg/ml (PG base) as I have been mix'in that at 50/50 and like it a lot, I thought that 1 or 2 additional Nic's would also be nice to store. I've worked down to 3mg/ml from 6mg/ml and so far so good (but haven't hit a stressful day yet). I am finding out that my new Cthulhu V2 seems like a more efficient delivery system than my Lemo's were, hence the reason for the drop in Nic I think. The Cthulhu V2 is a lot more flavorful that my Lemo's ever were, so I suspect that it is also delivering more Nic, would I be wrong in that assumption ?? Every once in a while I load up my EVOD2/Spinner2 and vape a tank full, Boy Howdy I now realize now how I was able to vape 30mg/ml juice when I first started vaping back in Aug. 2014. The difference is amazing on TH, Flavor, Vapor, and I suspect Nic delivery also, just can't prove it as I'm NOT gonna try 30mg/ml in my Cthulhu V2.
 

52anddone

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They have a 120ml sample bottle. Shipping is a bit expensive. Well it is pretty expensive period. It is about 25 with discount code shipped. And they only have 100mg and 48mg samples. They are both the same price? So 100mg is the better deal. Ships in glass with dropper. It is definitely a smooth no so if you are looking for big throat hit there may be better options. However for smooth th mild flavor it is my fave.

Edit Dada1 coupon code for 10% off, lessened the pain of shipping. Especially on a liter

Thanks for that. I would Not want any less TH than I now get from RTS/MBV. Thinking about trying some MFS at some point in time, if it is not chemically that is.

Edit: I have only been mixing Unflavored and Unflavored/Menthol, nothing fancy for me. That's the way I smoked too, Kool Filter Kings or Camel Unfiltered. Simple kind of guy here.
 
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mhertz

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52anddone(Blake, if OK :) ), I can not say for sure, but I have never heard of vendors adding water to pg, or see any reason for them to do it, whereas it's very common with vg, so I guess you're fine...

I don't remember reading Kurt talking about ecx much, but I could be wrong though...

I haven't tried the cthulhu v2, but I like it's design and wanted to get it when it came out, but then began to drip instead so ditched it. Before that I was also a big lemo fan and used the v1 and v2 everyday + the subtank mini :)

Yeah, there is a difference in how efficient a device is for delivering nic, especially among the simpler devices compared to RTAs/RDAs, but also among the higher end devices too like between different rta's...
 
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52anddone

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Btw, not that it relates to anything, but just simply a little trivia, I read that vg is made from plant oils by adding pressure, heat and water, and this makes the glycerol split from the 3 fatty acids in each triglyceride and be absorbed in the water and so later on the glycerol and water solution is distilled down to remove as much water as possible, but all water can never fully be removed and that's why we get USP 99.5+ percent vg...

See, right here ? This is the kind of stuff I simply Love reading about in this thread, the technical aspects of it all. When I was trying to learn how to wick my Lemo, all I could find in the posts was stuff like "Wick it Chunky, or More is Less or Less is More), stuff like that. I am the type that NEEDS Numbers, Weights, Lengths, Percentages, stuff like that.
 
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52anddone

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52anddone(Blake, if OK :) ), I can not say for sure, but I have never heard of vendors adding water to pg, or see any reason for them to do it, whereas it's very common with vg, so I guess you're fine...

I don't remember reading Kurt talking about ecx much, but I could be wrong though...

I haven't tried the cthulhu v2, but I like it's design and wanted to get it when it came out, but then began to drip instead so ditched it. Before that I was also a big lemo fan and used the v1 and v2 everyday + the subtank mini :)

Yeah, there is a difference in how efficient a device is for delivering nic, especially among the simpler devices compared to RTAs/RDAs, but also among the higher end devices too like between different rta's...

Yep, you bet it's OK, I do Love my Magma's (1 clone, 1 Authentic). I did all my Nic testing with my Lemo V2's, then vaped regular with my Cthulhu V2, THAT'S when I noticed the difference in what the Nic was doing to me, I think that is why My Blood Pressure started going up and that's when I started going into A-fib last week, I never felt sick or light headed though. I do think that that had something to do with it. Since then I have adjusted the way I do things (thru talks with Jeremy) and dropped my Nic from 6mg/ml to 3mg/ml and so far I haven't had any problems vaping the Cthulhu. My Magma now is looked at with Caution :danger:.

EDit: I hear you on the PG and no water. That's good to know.

Edit: I'll be back L8tr.
 
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JeremyR

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Yes each stage in atties will take a different amount of nic. Many drop to half or less when going to high powered drippers.

Using the 3mg in the dripper at higher power will intensify the taste and nic uptake to make it closer to like a 4-5 at lower power levels.. Just use the higher nic delivery when you have a craving or need a little extra punch for a bit.

Yeah I finally had to add 3-5% water to my vg as its been too cold here.

If your wanting to stock up get 100mg nic. Its a much better way to store nic. Less base per nic is better for storage. Its cheaper and more compact. Will reduce available oxygen slightly by less base.
 
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JeremyR

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I have rts in vg that's just been on a shelf for over a year and its still pretty clear. Wizard labs not good almost rancid after a year shelved imo.

The exc 100 vg nic does have water in it I would say. Maybe up to 10%. Not as much as wl was using I think. Its not a problem for me now as I only buy enough for 6 months. But a supplier of nicselect with little to no water in vg would be better.

Pg will not have any water added, its not needed. But the wierd thing I've only had Pg nic from the comparison test and it turned darker, faster than any vg nic I've ever had. Even the nn. Its an anomaly, maybe cause by the bottles, but based on that I would probably get vg for storage. Vg stores better than Pg in the freezer, so its a toss up. how much water added to vg I guess would make the difference. I think at some % of water it gets worse than Pg for storage.

UsaLN (cheapest at liquid barn) is much thicker and clearer but has a different type taste, I think the taste now I can somewhat compare to the smell of a tomato plant branch. I don't know its a cross between something chemical and natural that I get from it. Its a dirty nic some would say, but exceptionally clear when compared to all the 9 others that I have. The Carolina sounds like a good one too. More for the purity crowd, I havent tried it yet.

Some of the small differences you don't have to get crazy over. After a few years of vaping you will notice more and get more selective. Newer vapers can hardly tell a difference many times across things like vg.. As long as you get anything that is a recommended brand you will be fine.
 

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