Nicotine Comparisons

[r77r7r]

Hey there all,

I am looking to replace some nicotine I purchased from Health cabin which you might recall I said makes me feel a bit sick and has a dull throat hit a few weeks ago.

Well I have been doing some research into American based nicotine juice vendors and have come up with a short list that ships to Australia which includes Nude Nicotine, Vapestrek, Heartlands Vapor, vaping Zone and Myfreedomsmokes.

Can someone give me their opinions on these and which have the best nicotine juice for throat hit? I like to vape Naturally Extracted Tobaccos that I mouth to lung inhale so I am looking for a nicotine juice that has some throat hit but still is pure and neutral in flavor.

Any opinions on the above lines or any others would be appreciated.


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Have You checked out the Australian ecig forums yet. Great place for the info you're looking for.

 

[52anddone]

Does your experience suggest anything regarding lowering nicotine levels while maintaining TH via Flash?

Cool_Breeze, I hope I have found you in good health. I was doing Google searches on FA Flash and came across this You Tube Video review on FA Flash that I found very interesting. Someone called "Mine Field" I think (my hearing is not so good so am not to sure that that's what he said) from ECF. He talks about the TH of Flash. Have a look here:

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Cool_Breeze, I hope I have found you in good health. I was doing Google searches on FA Flash and came across this You Tube Video review on FA Flash that I found very interesting. Someone called "Mine Field" I think (my hearing is not so good so am not to sure that that's what he said) from ECF. He talks about the TH of Flash. Have a look here:

Thanks, 52anddone. That helped me to understand the product better.

 

[52anddone]

If I remember right "mineField" (in the above video) said that he was running his mixture of Unflavored Nic + FA Flash 50/50, meaning he was using 50% Nic mix and 50% Flash. I don't know how he does it as I can comfortably go as high as 2%-2.5% of Flash . I did try 3% Flash and at the end of the day I was having phlegm build-up and was getting a hoarseness bad enough that my wife asked if I was feeling OK (as she was breaking out the vitamin C packets, and all those supplements for colds and flu). I told her I was OK that I was just trying out a new mix of e-juice, she said "You sound terrible" . I went back to 2% and the next day I was back to normal . How he was able to use a 50% mixture of Flash, I do Not Know, So Beware . Right now I am running a 9mg/ml of ECX Nic in a 50/50 solution with 2% FA Flash mix, wicking with KGD and am pretty satisfied (down from 12mg/ml of Unflavored ECX, 50/50 mix, NO Flash, but that mix was borderline when I dropped to 9mg/ml). If I went to Rayon wicking I would expect I might have to drop to about 6mg/ml (using the same 2% Flash). Like I posted before, I also tried DNB but surmised it to be used for a completly different aspect in DIY juice, Not TH.

I just received my order of (1) liter of ECX Nic, but not my usual of 36mg/ml, instead, I went for 100mg/ml this time (more for the savings in total cost per ml than anything else). I have mixed about 150ml of 36mg/ml Nic up to now and have not had any issues, so I thought, Why Not. I also got a 30ml bottle of FA Flash. I have all the glass bottles to transfer the Nic into for fridge/freezer storage, I got it in a 50/50 mixture , why ?, I do not know, as I have always gotten my Nic in PG form. I must of had a brain F%rt or something. Male menopause setting in maybe. Sometimes a person does things that later on makes you go, DOH !!

 

[Kurt]

Question for all you invisible-nic connoisseurs:

In your experience what nic currently available is the cleanest? I am looking for the least taste, TH and nasal pepper effect. One that comes to mind is VT Chemnovatic (premium, not TH nic). This would be for a research project I am putting together, not personal use. Comprehensive COAs would be good too, but right now your opinions are most important.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[squee]

Question for all you invisible-nic connoisseurs:

In your experience what nic currently available is the cleanest? I am looking for the least taste, TH and nasal pepper effect. One that comes to mind is VT Chemnovatic (premium, not TH nic). This would be for a research project I am putting together, not personal use.

Carolina Xtraction Technologies Corp CXTC

 

[nostradadus]

Question for all you invisible-nic connoisseurs:

In your experience what nic currently available is the cleanest? I am looking for the least taste, TH and nasal pepper effect. One that comes to mind is VT Chemnovatic (premium, not TH nic). This would be for a research project I am putting together, not personal use. Comprehensive COAs would be good too, but right now your opinions are most important.

Thanks in advance!!

VT Chemnovatic is all I've used for years, however, Vape Clarity is my second choice; clean, tasteless, low TH and measures dead on perfect in titration tests.

100 mg/mL Vape Clarity

 

[r77r7r]

OSDIY AND XV. Ended up not being able to use them because they were too clean for unflavored vaping.

 

[mhertz]

I've not used them, as illegal for my country to import from non-EU countries, but from the blind test here, I believe nude-nic was cleanest. Later on it has been indicated that carolina-extracts with there unique cold-extraction technology was the new number one in terms of cleanliness, with nude-nic underneath. Lastly, the VT premium. Those seems to be the top 3 for cleanest nics available currently.

Again, not personally tested, but this is my own interpretation from this nice thread here and the good folks frequenting and contributing to it.

The thing about COAs that I personally don't get, is that from these alone then the cleanest, by far, is nicselect from alchem, never scoring under 100% in GC test. The USP and EP, as you know, goes up to 101%.

Personally, I like clean nics, but I mean that in context of least alkaline nic taste, which I hate, but not necessarily about less tobacco taste, which I don't mind... Although after switching to chemnovatic, then when going back and vaping something less clean in terms of tobacco flavor, then it doesn't feel as fresh anymore i.e. where chemnovatic could be considered maybe fresh sparkling water(not in reality, but nonetheless), then the other type where the same but just with a little hint of ashtray added to it, and not feeling as fresh anymore... Sorry for maybe bad analogy... Btw, there's still a flavor to it, nonetheless(chemnovatic)...

I used to like tobacco taste and TH, but after converting to using drippers and low resistance on mechs, then the tobacco taste imho isn't as nice anymore for some reason and the same with TH, because it gets too overpowering at high output levels imho i.e. lung-hitting at 100watts...

 

[JeremyR]

I thought nude nic was like vaping air. "cleanest" of the bunch, low th.

 

[AnthonyB]

Have You checked out the Australian ecig forums yet. Great place for the info you're looking for.

Well, I am done with Chinese flavorless nicotine liquid. That batch of nicotine liquid I got from Health cabin would make me sick if I mixed it anything higher than 3 mg. Even then, I do believe the only reason such a small dose of nicotine doesn't make me sick is because the overall toxicity is reduced.

The symptoms I got included nausea, stomach bloating, dry mouth, headache, tiredness, and a loss of desire for vaping, increased appetite and a 'tinny' flavor in my mixed liquids. I didn't even need to Vape that much to get these symptoms. Mixing my juices at 6mg felt like 24mg and mixing at 3mg felt more like 12 mg. lucky I tend to vape mouth to lung and tobacco flavors because these liquids would be an absolute tragedy for anyone mixing them to sub-ohm at high wattages.

The throat hit was poor and the buzz felt skittish and more like being poisoned than receiving a good little dose of nicotine.

My senses tell me the Chinese nicotine liquid sold at Health cabin is far from being pure. The hit and the throat hit is not the same as the American counterparts. It would be interesting to see how the Chinese nicotine liquids fared under chemical analysis for purity.

I think in future I am going to use American based nicotine liquids such as MFS or Vapestrek.


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[r77r7r]

Well, I am done with Chinese flavorless nicotine liquid. That batch of nicotine liquid I got from Health cabin would make me sick if I mixed it anything higher than 3 mg. Even then, I do believe the only reason such a small dose of nicotine doesn't make me sick is because the overall toxicity is reduced.

The symptoms I got included nausea, stomach bloating, dry mouth, headache, tiredness, and a loss of desire for vaping, increased appetite and a 'tinny' flavor in my mixed liquids. I didn't even need to Vape that much to get these symptoms. Mixing my juices at 6mg felt like 24mg and mixing at 3mg felt more like 12 mg. lucky I tend to vape mouth to lung and tobacco flavors because these liquids would be an absolute tragedy for anyone mixing them to sub-ohm at high wattages.

The throat hit was poor and the buzz felt skittish and more like being poisoned than receiving a good little dose of nicotine.

My senses tell me the Chinese nicotine liquid sold at Health cabin is far from being pure. The hit and the throat hit is not the same as the American counterparts. It would be interesting to see how the Chinese nicotine liquids fared under chemical analysis for purity.

I think in future I am going to use American based nicotine liquids such as MFS or Vapestrek.


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I think many of them do shop American and that's why I suggested them. They know who ships fast and cheap. Vape on...

 

[Kurt]

OSDIY AND XV. Ended up not being able to use them because they were too clean for unflavored vaping.

Thanks. What do these abbreviations stand for, please?

 

[mhertz]

MFS and Vaperstek isn't american nic, btw... Mfs is unknown and VT is indian and uk nic further processed in poland. If you want american then usa-liquid-nicotine from liquid-barn or carolina-extracts. The former very clean and the later very pungent...

Nude-nic I believe won the blind-test here for most flavorless, but some, like sketchness and jimi-d, has stated cxtc is cleaner. Sketchness had(has) both for comparison and posted about it here previously...

No nicotine tastes like air, no matter how clean it is... Usually we divide clean from "dirty" by the tobacco taste and TH, but with nics without tobacco taste there will still be the nic taste, which is what I personally don't like + maybe other tastes of chemical residues from chemicals used during distillation... Unflavored over 3mg in a dripper I have a very hard time vaping because of the alkaline nic taste. Granted I've mostly tested with chemnovatic and nicselect, but I don't believe the taste of nic, which is highly alkaline and irritating to the tongue will somehow disappear because of the extra tobacco alkaloids removed. Others state they can taste e.g. nude-nic and cxtc also...

 

[mhertz]

Onestopdiy shop and extremevaping nic. Xv where previously said to be chinese nic of very high quality from a single chinese manufacturer, but later it was stated that xv = wizzard's old ice variant... Jimi d thinks the wizzard ice was cleaned by chemnovatic... Who knows?

 

[Kurt]

Thanks for the responses! To be clear, I am interested in ZERO taste, not if it has a taste one may like or dislike. A few years ago this might be WL Ice or Premium Pure (might have that name wrong), or 2013 Alchem from NicVape. Now all I have experienced that is like this is VT Premium. Oxides and other alkaloids, even solvents in the worst cases, can impart a taste (ash tray, tobacco, musty, acrid, etc). I personally like unflavored nic that gives a "bite" or "funk" taste, with stronger TH and pepper in the nose, and I also don't like "invisible" nics for my own vaping. But for this study, I want a nic that is ultra-clean.

@mhertz: An anhydrous assay for nicotine purity (also known as a Karl-Fischer assay, or non-aqueous assay) is a bit misleading when it comes to nicotine purity. This assay will titrate ALL alkaloids, not just nicotine, and will also include the amount of water in the free-base nic. But it is a commonly used method for nic purity, and is required for USP standards. Better and more informative would be GC-FID, or an assay that differentiates between nicotine and other alkaloids, and does not include water in the overall %. USP has to be minimum 99%-101% by Karl-Fischer, but I've seen some ultra-pure nics showing a bit lower when just nicotine is looked at with other GC methods, and they would clearly surpass USP standards.

I do not care what the source country is for this particular nic. I'm not after promoting US nics, I simply want to eliminate any chemical variables as much as at all possible.

Onestopdiy shop and extremevaping nic. Xv where previously said to be chinese nic of very high quality from a single chinese manufacturer, but later it was stated that xv = wizzard's old ice variant... Jimi d thinks the wizzard ice was cleaned by chemnovatic... Who knows?

Very interesting about XV and chemnovatic being either WL Ice or cleaned Ice. I always thought (but never verified) that Ice was simply Alchem rebranded by WL, and Alchem was doing the follow-up inert gas distillation to get that last bit of alkaloids out. Maybe Chemnovatic is doing that again to get even purer. Maybe Kevin would know. But Ice was a WL product, and is not available anymore.

Has Levy had alkaloid analysis done on his nic? Or has Kevin? I can contact Kevin, but I've never spoken with Levy (if he is still XV).

 

[r77r7r]

@Kurt I also like a bite from my unflavored, what nic have you been using for that, if I may ask?

 

[mhertz]

Xv hasen't any COAs to show and just states:

"It is 99.86% Pure, Meets EU6.0 Medical Grade Standards. "

Chemnovatic(VT) lists this COA and also external lab test, but many values are just "Complies" or "Under XX" according to spec.

https://chemnovatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/CHEMNOVATIC_CoA_Pure_Nic_99-_EN.pdf

https://chemnovatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/CHEMNOVATIC_TR_Pure_Nic_99-_EN.pdf

Thanks Kurt for the GC clarification, I had clearly forgot that, which I've previously learned from you.

Yeah, I remembered you had a theory about what WL ice was, but had forgotten which... The part about ice being xv was a roumor by a single ecf member, but he promised that he was in the know. The ice = chemnovatic, I don't know if it's because of taste resemblance or if jimi is in the know about it...

Personally, I'm guessing chemnovatic buys, sells and blends nic with vg/pg and don't cleans anything. It's a small company in a polish "national development building", started by two young fellows where neither are chemists(magisters in technology/marketing/development), and there isn't very many working there when checking company status, atleast on some advisory site I checked. It said 6 I believe... They get it from india and uk jimi states, so i'm guessing it's from alchem(india), which already does the inert-gas-distillation extra cleaning step, and nicobrand(UK, or rather Ireland). If they clean it themselves then they need qualified chemists and fulll-blown laboratory space additionally, all this as a small new-commer firm in poland started by non-chemists and which I believe would require an incredible investment + knowledge in the field...

Maybe i'm wrong, and so i'm sorry... I like chemnovatic nic myself and is all I use currently, so am not bashing them... I think they saw inawera and thought to themselves, "hey, we can do that too"...

About nic taste, then if the funk and bite is simply pepper feeling in nose, and TH, then I fully get that, but I just don't like the chemical alkaline taste myself of all nics i've tried and some more than others, but I think its often about how oxidized the nic is which doubles it up, like other alkaloids...

I have also had alchem nic which was as clean tasting as chemnovatic, meaning no tobacco taste, but then another from other vendor did have tobacco taste, so I think alchem is very clean like previously, but that it just maybe is oxidized more at some vendors, or bad batches. However, the clean alchem still had a more alkaline nic chemical taste than chemnovatic(possibly oxidation too?), which is why I use chemnovatic now... However, maybe that just meant the alchem nic was cleaner in pure nic...

 

[B2L]

Thanks for the responses! To be clear, I am interested in ZERO taste, not if it has a taste one may like or dislike. A few years ago this might be WL Ice or Premium Pure (might have that name wrong), or 2013 Alchem from NicVape. Now all I have experienced that is like this is VT Premium. Oxides and other alkaloids, even solvents in the worst cases, can impart a taste (ash tray, tobacco, musty, acrid, etc). I personally like unflavored nic that gives a "bite" or "funk" taste, with stronger TH and pepper in the nose, and I also don't like "invisible" nics for my own vaping. But for this study, I want a nic that is ultra-clean.

@mhertz: An anhydrous assay for nicotine purity (also known as a Karl-Fischer assay, or non-aqueous assay) is a bit misleading when it comes to nicotine purity. This assay will titrate ALL alkaloids, not just nicotine, and will also include the amount of water in the free-base nic. But it is a commonly used method for nic purity, and is required for USP standards. Better and more informative would be GC-FID, or an assay that differentiates between nicotine and other alkaloids, and does not include water in the overall %. USP has to be minimum 99%-101% by Karl-Fischer, but I've seen some ultra-pure nics showing a bit lower when just nicotine is looked at with other GC methods, and they would clearly surpass USP standards.

I do not care what the source country is for this particular nic. I'm not after promoting US nics, I simply want to eliminate any chemical variables as much as at all possible.



Very interesting about XV and chemnovatic being either WL Ice or cleaned Ice. I always thought (but never verified) that Ice was simply Alchem rebranded by WL, and Alchem was doing the follow-up inert gas distillation to get that last bit of alkaloids out. Maybe Chemnovatic is doing that again to get even purer. Maybe Kevin would know. But Ice was a WL product, and is not available anymore.

Has Levy had alkaloid analysis done on his nic? Or has Kevin? I can contact Kevin, but I've never spoken with Levy (if he is still XV).

Kurt, the closest thing I've found to WL Ice is Nude Nic, it's all I've used since I found it.

I've got a nice stock of it now but will have to check out XV and Chemnovatic, NN is good but I sure loved Ice.

 

[mhertz]

I'm very curious about if I myself think there's a small or big difference between nude-nic and chemnovatic, and i've also several times said "screw it", I order the smallest portion anyway even though it's illegal and might get trashed or sent-back by customs, but I cannot select denmark during ordering, which is probably because they know the laws for the different countries already... I've also mailed them twice to ask for shipment to denmark, but not even an answer, which I feel is pretty bad customer service to just ignore people like that...

I've said it before, but man how I envy you guys in the states... With so many choices of great nics, for pennies almost, not to talk about great deals on quality VG from ED, or e.g. coconut VG from rts for still a fraction of what I pay. I checked ED, and the shipment for a gallon of VG, was I believe 167 dollars for shipment alone! It's on paper really great with high glycerol content and very low water and a great viscosity of 1490mpas. Also, I would love to see if coconut VG tastes different, from rts....

I'm about to do a VG taste test myself, from what I can get in EU for reasonable prices, and have my local vg + ordered from molinshop(chemnovatic vg) and inawera, and a deutch place and a english one...

I previously just thought that vg is vg and no difference in taste as it's the same chemical, but i've learned I was wrong after detecting a difference when switching supplier some time ago, and also, it's like saying that nic is nic no matter source, and that as we all know here is clearly not the case...