Nicotine Comparisons

[Mactavish]

I was considering leaving my 2nd bottle of NicRiver, 100mg. NicSelect in the white 1 liter bottle, since it's sealed, they told me with either argon or nitrogen, and put it right in the freezer for long term storage. I can save what little space I have left instead of distilling to smaller bottles.

I called and asked about long term freezer storage in their HDPE #2 plastic bottles, and was told that's how they store theirs, but they have never done long term tests, like 5 years or more.

Wondering if it's a BAD idea, potential leeching? Anyone have knowledge of any long term storage tests in these kinds of HDPE jugs?

OPINIONS WELCOME!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I had a similar experience with nicotine river. But I got out the good old fashioned measuring cup and calibrated the bottles. My Boston rounds hit the 8 oz mark at the shoulder of the bottle. Up to the bottom of the threads is another 40mls. So there is my missing product.

Was your nic in pg or vg?
I could not do a measure like this because I don't have any extra 8 oz bottles.

 

[Bob Chill]

I was considering leaving my 2nd bottle of NicRiver, 100mg. NicSelect in the white 1 liter bottle, since it's sealed, they told me with either argon or nitrogen, and put it right in the freezer for long term storage. I can save what little space I have left instead of distilling to smaller bottles.

I called and asked about long term freezer storage in their HDPE #2 plastic bottles, and was told that's how they store theirs, but they have never done long term tests, like 5 years or more.

Wondering if it's a BAD idea, potential leeching? Anyone have knowledge of any long term storage tests in these kinds of HDPE jugs?

OPINIONS WELCOME!

Hard to say with confidence. It could easily be totally fine in HDPE. But it's still not glass. Glass is the best option. I've been transferring liters to 32oz Boston rounds. The minimal expense and ease of transfer is worth the insurance for me personally. One thing of note is that a 32oz Boston round will hold more than a liter when filling into the neck. It's not a marginal amount either. An additional 30mls+.

If I was going to freeze in plastic I would vacuum seal the bottle to eliminate the risk of O2 exposure. I vacuum seal my glass but it's prob overkill. I like doing it for impact protection and shelf stability either way.

 

[sketchness]

Was your nic in pg or vg?
I could not do a measure like this because I don't have any extra 8 oz bottles.

It is definitely VG

 

[Mactavish]

Hard to say with confidence. It could easily be totally fine in HDPE. But it's still not glass. Glass is the best option. I've been transferring liters to 32oz Boston rounds. The minimal expense and ease of transfer is worth the insurance for me personally. One thing of note is that a 32oz Boston round will hold more than a liter when filling into the neck. It's not a marginal amount either. An additional 30mls+.

If I was going to freeze in plastic I would vacuum seal the bottle to eliminate the risk of O2 exposure. I vacuum seal my glass but it's prob overkill. I like doing it for impact protection and shelf stability either way.

Oh no, now I have to buy a vacuum sealer..... It never ends!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

It is definitely VG

Thanks for the post. That would explain why I had the difference in volume also.

I still have not heard a word from Heartland vapes. Guess they don't care about their customers. I had ordered vg but what I received was pg.

I will not be doing business with them in the future.

 

[Vape1000RR]

Quick question guys, would the VT TH be ideal for fruity flavors? Or would the premium be the better choice. And also, another little off-topic question but still related : some people say flavors will still be available after 8/8, some say it depends, and some say they won't. Now, if they do, where would they be sold at? Most of the places which sell flavors seem to also sell nicotine and vaping only related items. Just as curious as I'll be set on nicotine after this liter purchase of either VT TH / Premium depending on what you guys say is better for fruity flavors. I would do NN but I heard it takes on average 4-5 days to process and I'm not sure if I have time like that. But thanks guys!

Edit: I already have a liter of 100% VG VapersTek TH 100mg/ml already in the freezer. It is about to be bottled up tomorrow but I cannot try it as I only have RTAs. I just ordered the velocity v2 today but it will get it hopefully saturday or monday. But I would like to purchase a liter by this week. Thank you!

 

[WillyZee]

VT Premium for awesome tasting fruit juice ... no need to mask over the nicotine taste.


Sent via iPhone

 

[aikanae1]

I was considering leaving my 2nd bottle of NicRiver, 100mg. NicSelect in the white 1 liter bottle, since it's sealed, they told me with either argon or nitrogen, and put it right in the freezer for long term storage. I can save what little space I have left instead of distilling to smaller bottles.

I called and asked about long term freezer storage in their HDPE #2 plastic bottles, and was told that's how they store theirs, but they have never done long term tests, like 5 years or more.

Wondering if it's a BAD idea, potential leeching? Anyone have knowledge of any long term storage tests in these kinds of HDPE jugs?

OPINIONS WELCOME!

I've got a couple of liters I haven't transferred that are a couple of yrs old now. They are in a freezer in a different location so I won't be getting into them right away. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not depending on them. They are 48mg 100% vg. I think one was WL and the other was a new brand (at the time) with a 50% off discount, a simple name out of Calif that I haven't seen since.

I really want to order another liter but it's 100f+ now. Ugh. Any other suppliers out of Calif besides NN? I can usually get Calif posts in 2-4 days. East coast is 7 days + even with priority. If there's someone in AZ then I can get it in a day.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[chanelvaps]

I've said this elsewhere at ECF, but I've been a Settler for the past few years (settled happily into using evods & spinners, stopped exploring tanks after Nautilus, never intending to DIY), but now that things have changed, so must I. I've been stocking up on mods and tanks, buying everything needed to build my own coils, and I'm about to invest in the nicotine part of the equation this week.

To make the right choice, I have literally spent the past 8 hours reading this thread and taking copious notes. You guys really know your stuff, and I'm so grateful for that. Because of what you've contributed here, I finally feel confident regarding which brand of nicotine will likely be best for me. Thank you!

Elsewhere in the forum, I've seen recommendations that people who are new to DIY e-liquid stay away from 100mg. I understand the reason for it, but since we're down to the wire, is it entirely foolish to eschew that advice, go for the 100mg, and just work extra carefully and covered up?

I vape about 5ml per day at 3mg, and I've graduated to 0 nic at night just so I can chain vape if I feel like it, and then easily fall asleep later. With this in mind, I start thinking, "Maybe I should just buy a lower nic by the liter since I'm not as addicted as I once was..."

You see the quandary I'm in (great need w/ little to no experience), so your further input here would be super appreciated.

to save me from reading this whole thread, mind telling me which nic you settled on?

 

[Mactavish]

I've got a couple of liters I haven't transferred that are a couple of yrs old now. They are in a freezer in a different location so I won't be getting into them right away. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not depending on them. They are 48mg 100% vg. I think one was WL and the other was a new brand (at the time) with a 50% off discount, a simple name out of Calif that I haven't seen since.

I really want to order another liter but it's 100f+ now. Ugh. Any other suppliers out of Calif besides NN? I can usually get Calif posts in 2-4 days. East coast is 7 days + even with priority. If there's someone in AZ then I can get it in a day.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

I decided not to risk it and have 4 250ml GLASS bottles coming.

 

[Vape1000RR]

I've got a couple of liters I haven't transferred that are a couple of yrs old now. They are in a freezer in a different location so I won't be getting into them right away. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not depending on them. They are 48mg 100% vg. I think one was WL and the other was a new brand (at the time) with a 50% off discount, a simple name out of Calif that I haven't seen since.

I really want to order another liter but it's 100f+ now. Ugh. Any other suppliers out of Calif besides NN? I can usually get Calif posts in 2-4 days. East coast is 7 days + even with priority. If there's someone in AZ then I can get it in a day.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

Ordered Vaperstek on Sunday night. Got a tracking on Monday. Received it on Wednesday. Way faster than anything.

 

[Kurt]

I was considering leaving my 2nd bottle of NicRiver, 100mg. NicSelect in the white 1 liter bottle, since it's sealed, they told me with either argon or nitrogen, and put it right in the freezer for long term storage. I can save what little space I have left instead of distilling to smaller bottles.

I called and asked about long term freezer storage in their HDPE #2 plastic bottles, and was told that's how they store theirs, but they have never done long term tests, like 5 years or more.

Wondering if it's a BAD idea, potential leeching? Anyone have knowledge of any long term storage tests in these kinds of HDPE jugs?

OPINIONS WELCOME!

No one knows. Put one in the freezer for a year and see what happens. Maybe it yellows. How much did it oxidize? You have to do a nic-oxide analysis, and this has not been done with long term storage that I know of (but I am starting to work on this). HDPE does not have plasticizers to leach into e-liquids like PET, but it is more porous to O2 than PET. Less than LDPE, but for the thickness they generally use, probably not by a lot. I would expect after 5 years in the freezer that there would be some oxidation, but maybe not a lot. I would expect PG-nic to oxidize more than VG-nic, but neither zero. But most vendors would probably wonder why multi-year storage in a less-than-idea bottle is even being asked about, when glass bottles solve pretty much everything and they are cheap. A bit like asking a grocer how long meat will last in the original plastic wrap, or asking Firestone how long you can drive on a leaky tire.

You will probably get much longer in glass at room temp than HDPE in the freezer, but this also has not been studied over long term, so the operative word here is probably. But if you put a HDPE bottle in the freezer until glass bottles are obtained, it will probably not change much in several months. Again, probably, and this depends on PG vs VG, original purity of the nic (it seems this is a factor in oxidation rates). Wrapping the bottle in ziplocks or vac-seal will help this some, but all plastic is porous to O2. Putting those bottles in a heavy sealed container with O2-scavenging packs will help too. This might be beyond your means currently, but there are ways to keep O2 away from nic in a plastic.

 

[Bob Chill]

I decided not to risk it and have 4 250ml GLASS bottles coming.

Smart move. As Kurt just eloquently explained, we really don't know for long term. We're all kinda in this together and can only share experience as the calendar pages keep turning.

Glass is cheap and by far the "most protective" as far as we know. I only vacuum seal because we have a great sealer and use it for food on the regular. I wouldn't buy one just for this. It's prob overkill but I do like the way is secures bottles in the deep freeze so that is an added perk.

Also, all glass bottles hold more than their rating. Your 4th 250ml is going to end up probably half full when you break it down. You may want to get a couple 60's. I know...I know...it never ends. But it's a lot cheaper than a vacuum sealer! lol

 

[Rossum]

No one knows. Put one in the freezer for a year and see what happens. Maybe it yellows. How much did it oxidize? You have to do a nic-oxide analysis, and this has not been done with long term storage that I know of (but I am starting to work on this). HDPE does not have plasticizers to leach into e-liquids like PET, but it is more porous to O2 than PET. Less than LDPE, but for the thickness they generally use, probably not by a lot. I would expect after 5 years in the freezer that there would be some oxidation, but maybe not a lot. I would expect PG-nic to oxidize more than VG-nic, but neither zero. But most vendors would probably wonder why multi-year storage in a less-than-idea bottle is even being asked about, when glass bottles solve pretty much everything and they are cheap. A bit like asking a grocer how long meat will last in the original plastic wrap, or asking Firestone how long you can drive on a leaky tire.

You will probably get much longer in glass at room temp than HDPE in the freezer, but this also has not been studied over long term, so the operative word here is probably. But if you put a HDPE bottle in the freezer until glass bottles are obtained, it will probably not change much in several months. Again, probably, and this depends on PG vs VG, original purity of the nic (it seems this is a factor in oxidation rates). Wrapping the bottle in ziplocks or vac-seal will help this some, but all plastic is porous to O2. Putting those bottles in a heavy sealed container with O2-scavenging packs will help too. This might be beyond your means currently, but there are ways to keep O2 away from nic in a plastic.

Kurt, would you say one can make a something of a judgement about nic that's been in storage based on its color? Specifically that if it's still nice and colorless, that it probably hasn't suffered any significant oxidation?

 

[Kurt]

Kurt, would you say one can make a something of a judgement about nic that's been in storage based on its color? Specifically that if it's still nice and colorless, that it probably hasn't suffered any significant oxidation?

Yes, I truly think this is the case. Oxidation and yellowing go hand-in-hand, since the oxides are strongly colored (red to brown). So if no yellowing compared to original is seen, no further oxidation has occurred. Visual analysis is probably the best metric we have without scientific instruments.

 

[Mactavish]

No one knows. Put one in the freezer for a year and see what happens. Maybe it yellows. How much did it oxidize? You have to do a nic-oxide analysis, and this has not been done with long term storage that I know of (but I am starting to work on this). HDPE does not have plasticizers to leach into e-liquids like PET, but it is more porous to O2 than PET. Less than LDPE, but for the thickness they generally use, probably not by a lot. I would expect after 5 years in the freezer that there would be some oxidation, but maybe not a lot. I would expect PG-nic to oxidize more than VG-nic, but neither zero. But most vendors would probably wonder why multi-year storage in a less-than-idea bottle is even being asked about, when glass bottles solve pretty much everything and they are cheap. A bit like asking a grocer how long meat will last in the original plastic wrap, or asking Firestone how long you can drive on a leaky tire.

You will probably get much longer in glass at room temp than HDPE in the freezer, but this also has not been studied over long term, so the operative word here is probably. But if you put a HDPE bottle in the freezer until glass bottles are obtained, it will probably not change much in several months. Again, probably, and this depends on PG vs VG, original purity of the nic (it seems this is a factor in oxidation rates). Wrapping the bottle in ziplocks or vac-seal will help this some, but all plastic is porous to O2. Putting those bottles in a heavy sealed container with O2-scavenging packs will help too. This might be beyond your means currently, but there are ways to keep O2 away from nic in a plastic.

Thanks Kurt for the detailed answers. I found some LOCKED threads here on ECF where you answered these same questions a few years a go. Perhaps a BLOG would be good so we could link to it for newcomers.

 

[Kurt]

Not a bad idea. I will look into this. Not much of a blogger currently. I do tend to repeat things year after year as new people come on board.

 

[aikanae1]

I still refer to several of your ancient posts.

I didn't intend to leave nic in plastic, it just happened and I live several hours away now. I'm glad it was a lower % of nic since another worry was plastic leeching into the base. I'm prepared to consider them a loss, but now I'll call them an "experiment". Lemons to lemonade.

USPS to here from anywhere east, including NM is s-l-o-w. It doesn't matter how fast the shipper gets orders out. I think it depends on airline routes. There's non stops to s. Calif and everywhere else has connections. That's been my guess. There is a nic supplier locally, most of the regional juice makers use them, not much of a website and need to call to order in advance. I'm going to have to look into them, but I was thinking they would be a back up after shipping rates go up.

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[SLM]

Is the MFS nic that's on sale worth buying? $50.00 a liter doesn't sound too bad. The $100.00 a liter Nude and Vapers Tek is just out of my budget. Anything better at about the same price?

Thanks!