Nicotine Comparisons
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Maybe, but they meant it was physically cleaner. Im formulating a response to try and clear things up a bit, even though im only just starting to get my head round it.
Lol, that just means whomever did the de-...... started with fresher nic.
Or??? Does the acid have a bleaching effect? My nic was pretty clear to start with.
One thing im unclear on is which element bonds with freebase to make the pee.
Oh, and can we call it nic pee now? I want hear how its mixed with ammonia in a future podcast.
Oh, and can we call it nic pee now? I want hear how its mixed with ammonia in a future podcast.
Here we go, so it gains a Hydrogen atom or two. Presumably its in a di-protonated state when in tobacco and ammonia is used during extraction to deprotonate it. Then we spend hours messing about trying to put one hydrogen atom back.
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RE Juul and benzoic acid. Benzene formation in electronic cigarettes
Am i reading this right by thinking the Juul has 4.5% benzo and 60mg nic?
edit: Dr F seems to agree. Study titled “Benzene formation in e-cigarettes” found that air has more benzene than e-cigs
Am i reading this right by thinking the Juul has 4.5% benzo and 60mg nic?
edit: Dr F seems to agree. Study titled “Benzene formation in e-cigarettes” found that air has more benzene than e-cigs
Not sure im brave enough to try 4.5% 60mg.
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Who am i kidding, the scales are already out.
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Predictably, its super smooth and hits like an express train. Five puffs and i was done.
Second batch at 3.3% 45mg is nice. Smoothness and hit similar to Juuls ejuice.
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Personally, I wouldn't sweat anything in a vape that's present at levels "50-100 times less than cigarettes"...
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Do NOT confuse benzoic acid with benzene! They are not even remotely the same, other than the benz part of the name. Benzoic acid is a commonly used food preservative, as sodium benzoate (the sodium salt of benzoic acid). Benzene is a carcinogen.
That said, I would prefer other acids be used to make these salts, like pyruvic or citric, which are probably safer than benzoic. But benzoic acid is not even remotely as risky as benzene, which is NOT used at all, and probably forms, as Dr. F said, in vanishingly small quantities in the case of dry puff if there is benzaldehyde (cherry, almond) present.
That said, I would prefer other acids be used to make these salts, like pyruvic or citric, which are probably safer than benzoic. But benzoic acid is not even remotely as risky as benzene, which is NOT used at all, and probably forms, as Dr. F said, in vanishingly small quantities in the case of dry puff if there is benzaldehyde (cherry, almond) present.
And speaking of dry puffs..
Do you have anything to add to this discussion? Any thoughts on the Wong study? I would love to know what you think.
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
I think you mean Wang. It was not an ecig, it was a reactor vessel with glass wool soaked in e-liquid solvents. For temperature data, could be argued to be a good study, and useful. For relating it directly to ecigs, especially new-generation atomizers, I think this is very misleading. The link to the thread you give has a video of John Bellinger's talk at National Academies of Sciences in DC, which I spoke at, as well. Yeah, if you get the liquid hot enough it decomposes. That said, we have looked at several atomizer types at higher wattage, and there are some that are remarkable in not decomposing the e-liquid, even without TC. Currently we are looking at TC with respect to emissions.And speaking of dry puffs..
Do you have anything to add to this discussion? Any thoughts on the Wong study? I would love to know what you think.
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
But the bottom line, in my opinion, is that if you are producing significant aldehydes you will know it, since it will give a bad taste, at best, or be unvapeable, at worst. Some older models, like the CE4, produce aldehydes at all wattages we looked at, especially above about 7 W. Thus people naturally gravitated away from these to better performing atomizers at higher wattages, and the manufacturers met that demand with atomizers that are very efficient at producing clean vapor. It is hard to find the CE4 now on websites, or else if a vendor has them, they can't give them away, even for $1.50. People don't want them. So naturally, this is the most popular atomizer for researchers to study aldehyde emissions. Sarcasm off. This was one of the points I told the NAS: be very wary of studies on emissions that use older models at high wattage. Consumers are not doing this, and the atomizers were never designed for high wattage. Making statements about the dangers of aldehydes using devices not designed for high wattage, and producing aldehydes at extreme amounts, is simply not addressing current reality, and those levels would never be tolerated by a vaper, even for one puff.
About being able to taste the carcinogens, then the charts e.g. state much higher levels of some carcinogens than cigs on 470F and above, and I cannot taste anything bad at those temps when I vape my unflavored VG with 8% water. I don't know how water affects the VG chart(I guess it will make it more "dangerous" as lowered boiling-point, so running hotter). On my current dual-coil build, atty and liquid, the "bad" temps is at 60watts and above, though I don't go over 60 watts myself ever, except when testing this out.
Cigs, with it's high-levels of carcinogens, also don't taste bad or acrid to me.
I'm just at page 11 on the big "study-thread" currently, so sorry if having missed something obvious...
I just started using SS/TC two days before reading the study-results, which i'm happy I made the jump to, as I would like to limit exposure to carcinogens as much as possible obviously. My most used mod has been thankfully tested to be very exact on TC with the suggested TCR for SS316L wire(reuleaux rx2/3 in djlsb review)
Edit: Ohh, it was probably not meant as to compared to cig-levels, but much higher levels which then would be percievable, though just the thought of cig-levels makes me somewhat uneasy I must admit. I'm not happy about that study myself, as thought the cig-like levels would be in a much, much higher territory/temp/wattage.
@Kurt
Could you please tell me how water added to VG would skew the VG chart presented? I mean does the added water make the safe-temps even lower, or roughly the same, in your opinion, thanks.
Cigs, with it's high-levels of carcinogens, also don't taste bad or acrid to me.
I'm just at page 11 on the big "study-thread" currently, so sorry if having missed something obvious...
I just started using SS/TC two days before reading the study-results, which i'm happy I made the jump to, as I would like to limit exposure to carcinogens as much as possible obviously. My most used mod has been thankfully tested to be very exact on TC with the suggested TCR for SS316L wire(reuleaux rx2/3 in djlsb review)
Edit: Ohh, it was probably not meant as to compared to cig-levels, but much higher levels which then would be percievable, though just the thought of cig-levels makes me somewhat uneasy I must admit. I'm not happy about that study myself, as thought the cig-like levels would be in a much, much higher territory/temp/wattage.
@Kurt
Could you please tell me how water added to VG would skew the VG chart presented? I mean does the added water make the safe-temps even lower, or roughly the same, in your opinion, thanks.
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Thanks, Kurt! Yes. Wong et al.
And yes, the video of your talk follows John's presentation, in case you missed it:
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
Most of us were already familiar with your (and Dr. Farsalinos') findings and opinions on the subject, which is why the the Wong study caused so much confusion.
Just found this thread... Is there a TL;DR version of these nic comparisons? I'm looking for a nic vendor.
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