Nicotine Myth Busted - Nicotine does not cause adiction IMO

[Stubby]

anyways, not to sound like a downer, im sure if your were nic free for a long time your brain could heal but just saying- it IS very addictive and mind altering, nothing like coffee at all. And the deadly delivery system they make the people addicted use.. smoking.. thats why im so interested in vaping... finally.. no more tar and toxins and a way to wean off of it if one wants to in the right manner.

Just about everything is mind altering to some degree, including exercise. We are really walking on thin ice when we get into dopamine. There is a lot that is not understood very well.

There are a lot of variables. Why is it that some smokers never go beyond being a casual smoker? They smoke on the weekend and never touch it the rest of the week. That can go on for years and they never seem to get addicted to nearly the degree that others do. That actually accounts for a good percentage of users. Then there are smokers who easily quit. After a few days of discomfort they never look back, and never miss it. Then there are the rest of us who get highly addicted and find it very difficult if not impossible to quit. A simple dopamine theory leaves a lot unexplained. No doubt it plays a major role, by why so much more so for some then others?

We can also ask the question as to why people with mental illness tend to smoke much more then the general population. It could very well be they lack a natural dopamine balance to begin with and are using tobacco to self medicate. I don't have any real answers, but I do have a lot of questions. It's to bad the current state of research has such anti-tobacco bias. Finding any real answers is essentially impossible in todays climate.

You have to be careful of some of the studies. Many researchers tend to want to find simple straight forward answers and don't deal with a lot of variables.

 

[mkbilbo]

As to the first question on the harm of nicotine, it is both an extreme poison and about as harmful as caffeine. As with most things in medicine and nearly all drugs, the dose is everything. In the dose tobacco/nicotine users consume it appears to be about as harmful as caffeine. If it is more harmful it is not by much. It is also true that a drop of two of pure nicotine on the skin will very likely kill you. Taking two aspirin is therapeutic, while consuming a whole bottle is very toxic. It's not either/or, it's both.

As far as reducing your nicotine level the question is why. If you are contented with a certain level what's the point of reducing it to the point where you are having problems. Unless your plan is to get off all nicotine just stay where you are. If you do plan on quitting all nicotine (which I don't) that's a whole other question.

Different people react differently to nicotine, just as people react differently to alcohol, caffeine, etc. For some it is highly addictive (and I might add beneficial), and for others it has little effect. Some can easily quit nicotine while for others it is nearly impossible. Welcome to the human race.

Yes. What you said. Absolutely.

Sure it's "a poison". In fact, starting around the 17th century, it was used as a insecticide. Use peaked around WWII but by the 80s, it was rarely used anymore. Then in 2008, the last registered user requested a cancellation of their registration and apparently as of next year, nicotine insecticide will cease to be available at all in the US.

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But anything in excess can be deadly. Water can be deadly. Not just drowning in it but it's actually possible to get "drunk" on water. You have to drink a lot but every so often, some idiots who heard they could get drunk with plain water put themselves in the hospital trying for a cheap drunk. You can even kill yourself throwing your electrolytes out of balance like crazy making a serious mess out of your brain chemistry.

Ah, here's a bit about it:

Water intoxication

And folks making the comparison with caffeine should maybe consider that... wait for it...

"In plants, caffeine acts as a natural pesticide that paralyzes and kills many insects feeding upon them."

Caffeine

Seems we humans like what small doses of poisons do to us?

My grandparents were married at the very bottom of the Great Depression. They knew truckloads of "home remedies" for all kinds of things (wish I'd gotten more of that from them before we lost them, not all of it works all that great but some can really save you money). But I was griping about ant hills once and was told to dump coffee grounds on them.

I don't know if it kills them or repels them or a combination but they go away.

But people do react to things differently. When I was younger (and we rode dinosaurs to school ), I used to think people were full of it talking about "caffeine withdrawal". I mean, come on, it's just coffee. Addicted? Yeah right.

Reason I thought that was I don't seem capable of being addicted to caffeine. I enjoy my morning coffee and do it every day. But if I get up and the cupboard is bare because I forgot to pick some up, I just add it to the grocery list. No headache, no jitters, no... nothing. And I'm not just switching caffeinated drinks. For one, I never have liked sodas. (Well, okay, when I was a kid, I liked root beer floats. Back when A&W had stands on every corner. But that's like, centuries ago now. ). Coffee is the only caffeinated thing I ever have in the house.

So I have no idea what it's like to go through "withdrawal" with caffeine. After college and the "all nighter" thing, I kind of lost interest in coffee for a while. Just stopped. Nothing happened.

Kind of wish it was the other way round. A caffeine addiction seems not to beat up on your health quite as much as cigs do. But, well, reality is what it is. At least this vaping (is that right?) seems to be a better way to get the nicotine than tobacco. Dunno about "safe" but I'll take "safer". And maybe I'm fooling myself as it's been just a handful of days but I could swear I have a bit more energy lately. Getting more oxygen than I used to maybe?

Dunno. Hopefully it's a trend though...

 

[subversive]

As to the first question on the harm of nicotine, it is both an extreme poison and about as harmful as caffeine. As with most things in medicine and nearly all drugs, the dose is everything. In the dose tobacco/nicotine users consume it appears to be about as harmful as caffeine. If it is more harmful it is not by much. It is also true that a drop of two of pure nicotine on the skin will very likely kill you. Taking two aspirin is therapeutic, while consuming a whole bottle is very toxic. It's not either/or, it's both.

As far as reducing your nicotine level the question is why. If you are contented with a certain level what's the point of reducing it to the point where you are having problems. Unless your plan is to get off all nicotine just stay where you are. If you do plan on quitting all nicotine (which I don't) that's a whole other question.

Different people react differently to nicotine, just as people react differently to alcohol, caffeine, etc. For some it is highly addictive (and I might add beneficial), and for others it has little effect. Some can easily quit nicotine while for others it is nearly impossible. Welcome to the human race.

I realize nicotine is a poison in the right concentration. What I meant, generally, is that there are people who go overboard and feel that nicotine in any amount is some horrible, awful thing.

I am reducing my nicotine level ( down to 24mg at the moment ) to save money on DIY and to get my nic intake down in case the FDA regulates e-liquid down to appallingly low levels of nic. I also would like to be able to enjoy regular strength snus. There is one other thing, though. I have heart palpitations. They are genetic and harmless. All the women in my family have them, and I saw a cardiologist as a child. My sister saw one a few years ago. It's a benign electrical issue. Nicotine makes them worse in my experience. Even with the knowledge they are harmless, they freak me out from time to time, and I would like them to be less noticeable.

Yes, people definitely react differently. Not everyone who tries cigarettes becomes a smoker, and those who quit go through different struggles. I get aggravated by posts ( this is not the first ) that try to claim that nicotine is not addictive at all simply because they no longer feel addicted and that the method of delivery ( cigarettes ) is the real evil as far as addictive potential goes. I'm not saying there is no truth to that. That may be their personal reality, and that's fine. That's why I mentioned that my mother has told me she has never had a nic fit. It definitely comes across as condescending to those of us who don't use 6mg nic or go out for hours without their PV when someone makes a broad, sweeping claim that they believe is true for the rest of the world. Some people have gone as far as posting that those who use high mg nic are only doing so because they are seeking some sort of nicotine high. At the time I made my first post in this thread, I had just read 2 or so others that had my defenses up. It reminds me of people who claim that drug addicts are simply weak minded.

 

[jfalbanese]

so in the context of eventually reducing my dosage to 0 nic., how long does nicotine stay in your system after you graduate to 0 nic content? of course for the purpose of passing a blood or urine nic test? any takers?

 

[subversive]

It's supposed to be 3 days for the nic, but blood tests can detect cotinine for about a week. I could be wrong, but I think that's correct.

 

[jfalbanese]

It's supposed to be 3 days for the nic, but blood tests can detect cotinine for about a week. I could be wrong, but I think that's correct.

so under obamacare, they can classify us as non smokers?

 

[JarodTufts]

I have to think there might be something to this. I smoked for over twenty years, and now with the help of my Provari, a MAP tank and Pinkspot liquid I have been smoke free for over a year. I did not try to stop smoking. I vaped when I was in my house or car and smoked everywhere else (i.e. work). One day I just decided to try not smoking at work for one week and was amazed to realize I didn't need to smoke at work. I could easily just wait until I got home in the evening to have my vape. My concentration of choice is 24mg liquid, which I understand folks to consider a high concentration. When I vape, I chain vape. So far... Everything about my story would suggest that it is the nicotine substitute in the vapor that keeps me a happy non-smoker. To a degree, I think this is true. However there is something different going on inside my head now that I don't smoke anymore. I have noticed a night-and-day reduction in the amount of anxiety that I'm prone to feel from time to time. It isn't daily anymore. I've notice that if I can't vape for a long period of time, I can wait for a long period of time until I can vape. I just don't have 'nic fits' any longer. My 'addiction' has changed for the better now that I don't smoke. There IS something to this theory.

 

[Katya]

Well, there is nicotine alone, then there is WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids), then there is chewing and smoking tobacco. They are not the same. But nicotine alone may not be so bad for you, after all. Even NYT agrees:

Researchers Investigate (Horrors!) Nicotine's Potential Benefits - New York Times

 

[Katya]

And more:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/outside/387394-ecf-sucks-4.html#post8841155

You may find the entire thread interesting, but I'm warning you--you're entering The Outside, not for the easily offended or the faint of heart.

 

[metropolitan]

anyone who seriously believes that nicotine is not addictive is in a state of denial.

 

[JMarca]

This horse has been beaten to death. Nicotine is a highly addictive substance with prolonged use. Meaning that if you were to smoke your first cigarette today would you be addicted? No!
But much like caffeine prolonged use will eventually get you addicted and once you're addicted getting off it will be no joy.

 

[Vaptor]

Nicotine is no where near as addictive as claimed. It's the combination of all the chemical in Tobacco that is addictive. I never ever hang out for a Nicotine in the morning since I've been using vaporizer and most other vapers agree with that too.

 

[mindmajick]

Anything can be addictive. I'm married to a woman with a masters degree in psychology. Both her and I agree that ANY ACTION or substance can be addictive. Anything that messes with your dopamine levels can be addictive.

Smiling can truly be addictive.

Frowning as well.

Try it. If you are a naturally unhappy person (I'm a chronic depressive BTW)... Just fake it for a day. Your dopamine levels will increase. After a couple of days of "prolonged use" it can become a habit.. Then an addiction.

I believe those that say nicotine isn't addictive are minimizing the nature of addiction. Maybe you were never "addicted"? Insulting, huh?

Personally.. I'm addicted to nicotine/vaping (2 wks stink free!!), sex, food, my wife, love and happy thoughts.

I removed the addictions/personality changers: tobacco, heavy metal (well mostly ), hatred, etc.

In my mind PV'S are a tool that can be used to change your personal reality in a positive way. Also, like any tool it can be used in the "wrong manner" to create negativity or illness.

Next stop- gotta convince my lazy .... to exercise

Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[MiamiGuy]

From the Wikipedia: "Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties.[56] However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.[36]" (Here: Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[RadarLuv1]

Do you see people chronically addicted to drinking coffee where they must have many cups a day to keep chasing the buzz? Of course not.
John Phoenix

Absolutely, I have.

That being said, and in re, nicotine. I believe I was more about the ritual of smoking. I like to hold it, inhale it, blow it (that's what she said). It is def more of an oral fixation (she said that, too).

<snipped for space>

 

[ToeJamX]

This horse has been beaten to death. Nicotine is a highly addictive substance with prolonged use. Meaning that if you were to smoke your first cigarette today would you be addicted? No!
But much like caffeine prolonged use will eventually get you addicted and once you're addicted getting off it will be no joy.

I'll have to wholeheartedly disagree with this one, and I'll use my daughter as an example.

The first time that I saw my daughter smoking, it was with some of her friends, when I arrived early to pick her up at school. She was 14 then. I basically went berserk, grounded her, etc...Probably not the right move, but my bad there.

It became painfully obvious by age 15 that she was going to smoke, no matter what I did, and by age 18 she was smoking 2-3 pad. Newport 100's no less (probably the worst/most harmful cigarette ever made).

Ten years later, with the advent of ecigs, I really, really tried to get her interested in it. Anything to get her off tobacco cigarettes. She tried them whenever she was over at my house, and even the 36ml juice did nothing for her. Usually the last thing she would do upon leaving, even after tons of vaping, was lighting up one of those stinky Newports.

Bottom line, the addiction must certainly entail way, way more than just the nicotine.

 

[sherid]

I'll have to wholeheartedly disagree with this one, and I'll use my daughter as an example.

The first time that I saw my daughter smoking, it was with some of her friends, when I arrived early to pick her up at school. She was 14 then. I basically went berserk, grounded her, etc...Probably not the right move, but my bad there.

It became painfully obvious by age 15 that she was going to smoke, no matter what I did, and by age 18 she was smoking 2-3 pad. Newport 100's no less (probably the worst/most harmful cigarette ever made).

Ten years later, with the advent of ecigs, I really, really tried to get her interested in it. Anything to get her off tobacco cigarettes. She tried them whenever she was over at my house, and even the 36ml juice did nothing for her. Usually the last thing she would do upon leaving, even after tons of vaping, was lighting up one of those stinky Newports.

Bottom line, the addiction must certainly entail way, way more than just the nicotine.

Especially in these times, I believe that the massive campaign against smoking awakens a new rebellious spirit in young people. They start and continue smoking specifically because it pi.....off adults and authority figures. It's been that way since the beginning of time, and probably the best offense is to ignore it. They are, after all, addicted to annoying adults. Smoking has always been one of the symbols of youthful rebellion, even more effective today than in the past.

 

[JessicaS]

I believe this is clearly false and has not been proven as a truth or a fact that can be backed up by the observable evidence.

If a proposition has not been proven as a truth or fact, like all propositions by definition, you cannot say that it is clearly false. By doing so, you are in effect falsifying your own statement. I believe that there are a multitude of factors involved with addiction and not only the chemicals themselves but also physiological differences. Some people metabolize said chemicals differently so the effect may be only a mild addiction. On the contrary, for some the effect is much stronger. The number of variables at play here make it near impossible to posit whether or not nicotine "is to blame." Similarly caffeine's addictive qualities vary in intensity depending on a variety of physiological and behavioral factors. In summary, the myth has not been busted, since it cannot be called one in the first place.

 

[Desiderata]

I didn't read all 10 pages but I'm sure someone has said Nicotine is addictive just like caffeine but what I find more addictive about smoking cigs or vaping is the deep breathes of smoke or vapor you inhale. Everyone always says that if you want to relax take deep breathes and it will calm you down, well that is how I feel about vaping and smoking. It's the deep breathes of vapor going in your lungs that act in a calming effect even though nicotine is a slight stimulant. Since I didn't read all 10 pages I hope this wasn't a repeat idea.

 

[Pink Dolphin]

after switching from analogs to vaping,i dont feel addicted to the nicotine...more to the vapor and how fun vaping is.