No nicotine throat hit?

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Muttjunky, Mar 14, 2011.

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  1. Muttjunky

    Muttjunky Full Member

    Is throat hit solely tied to nicotine level?
     
  2. Nic_Fan

    Nic_Fan Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Don't think so. From what I have read VG vs PG comes in to play as well.
    The veterans here can chime in on this.

    I'm interested in this topic as well. For me the most important thing is a nice
    fulfilling lung full of vapor. Oh. And the nicotine of course. :)
     
  3. banjo

    banjo Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    The two are definitely related, but the PG?VG ratio also plays a role, as does the temperature that the atty burns at. I get better TH with a higher PG level and an LR atty using the same flavored juice, as well as a higher nic level.
     
  4. Rosa

    Rosa Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    The PG will allow any TH to come through while VG will mute it. LR atty's help a ton. Strong flavors like cinnamon and menthol create their own TH.

    The nic has a peppery taste and irritates the tissues at the back of your throat (ta-da..TH) that gets amplified by the PG, so without the nic you may want to utilize your other resources to try to mimic that:

    PG, LR atty, menthol (better yet, menthol crystals melted in alcohol - google) or strong cinnamon

    Good luck!
     
  5. dormouse

    dormouse ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    BTW you cannot use LR attys or cartos on a slim ecig - you can fry the electronics of the battery. You CAN use them on the fat battery models like Ego and Riva 510 which are built to handle them

    But for slim cigs, even something like a KR808D-1/Vapor4Life w/ WOW cartos vapes a bit hotter than a 510 and either will vape hotter than a super-mini

    PG/VG makes a big difference
    Nicotine is a skin irritant -> TH and more nicotine -> more TH
    PG lets through the irritation/TH of nicotine the most, lets flavor through well too, makes less visible vapor
    VG smooths the vape, smooths the irritation/TH, dull flavor somewhat, adds more visible vapor

    I like 70pg/30vg and sometime 80pg/20vg for more TH.

    Then some flavors add their own throat sensation which can sort of substitute for TH at low nic levels. Mints, menthols, ginger, cinnamon and other spices, liquor flavors all often have throat sensation. On my hotter PV (KR808D-1 from Vapor4Life), even Backwoods Brew Vanilla Bean gives me some throat sensation at 12mg.

    And there are additive for throat sensation like FreedomsSmoke USA Pepper ejuice and Flavourart's QHit (sold by FSUSA and others)
     
  6. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Here we go again. 98% of throat hit comes from 2 things: warmth of the vapor and nicotine strength. 2% comes from additives or PG vs VG. So if you only need a 2% change in your throat hit, you can change between PG vs VG.

    So, using no nicotine will make it more difficult to get much in the way of TH. But if you increase the warmth of the vapor which requires more power, that should help more than any other option you have. Using low resistence attys is one method but does not come close to the effect of increased TH in comparison to increasing the power of the PV you use. The problem with LR attys is they degrade so quickly in performance.

    So your best option is using a 5 volt or variable volt PV to adjust the other of the two main componets of throat hit. This will give you the best chance of having sufficient throat hit to satify you while using 0 nic eliquid.

    Note: PG vs VG makes a MINOR difference. I use both, I like a strong TH, I vape 24mg strength eliquid, I use a variable volt PV. I know throat hit and what works and what works only slightly. I've tried easily 50 different methods to effect throat hit.
     
  7. Astronomer

    Astronomer Super Member ECF Veteran

    For myself it is already proven

    The exact same amount of nicotine will have a very different throat hit depending on the PG/VG ratio, on the exact same unit with the exact same temperature.

    I am sure that nicotine does have an influence as well, but there is absolutely no question whatsoever that PG/VG ratio has a very large influence on throat hit. In fact I know it does, as I have 24mg juice in a 50-50 mix of Pg/Vg and 24mg nic in a mix of 80/20 Pg/Vg and there is no question that the throat hit is much greater with the 80/20 mix on the exact same e-cig with the same Nic level.
     
  8. Rosa

    Rosa Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    I agree, I tried some VG juice once because I wanted the huge plumes of vapor and found that I couldn't use it because there was no TH at all and furthermore I couldn't taste it.

    ON THE OTHER HAND: I haven't tried VG liquids in a HV e-cig.
     
  9. dormouse

    dormouse ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    I agree with Astronomer.

    Even 18mg nic in 100% PG makes my tongue feel sore after a few hours like the results of a mouthful of much too hot cocoa.
    In 70pg/30vg there is a less sharp TH and little irritation and my tongue does not get sore
     
  10. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    I don't agree at all. I use 24mg eliquid in both all PG and all VG liquid and find the difference very similar. I do agree that it changes it some but not that much. But the difference between a 5 volt or variable volt PV over a 3.7 volt PV in throat hit is very signifcant. I've used 15 different PV's over the time I have vaped and I know the effect this has on TH. My experience, validated by many long term vapers on this forum, pretty well supports the point that the vast majority of throat hit comes from warmth of the vapor (power of the device) and nicotine strength.
     
  11. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    You could have a point there, Rosa, on the power level. My experience with all VG vs all PG has been with 5 volt or variable volt PV's. The difference could be more significant with weaker batteries. But it doesn't change the overall foundation that most TH is a product of power/warmth and nic strength.
     
  12. Astronomer

    Astronomer Super Member ECF Veteran

    Well with the exact same e-cig, exact same nic level and exact same temperature and the exact same flavor ordered, 50-50 PG/VG mix has a much weaker throat hit than an 80/20 PG/VG mix.

    I like the throat hit, so I vape with the 80-20 PG/VG mix more often.

    It isn’t a question, and it isn’t a matter of agreeing, people may have very different units and have very different results from my own experiences. But there is absolutely no question whatsoever that the VG/PG mixture has an influence on throat hit.

    That does not mean other things do not also have an influence.
     
  13. Muttjunky

    Muttjunky Full Member

    Ok I have the 808, brand new, which brands have a 5? What I really want is th without nic if possible, but will add nic if it is required for th. I smoke only occasionally but when I do, it is 'for' the th.
     
  14. Rosa

    Rosa Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    To get 5v you need to look at the mods. The Riva and kr808d-1 are 3.7v and the 510/eGo is 3.2v. You want one of those mods that takes those regular looking rechargeable batteries -- I don't know much about mods (clearly) but I do know that you can even get variable voltage mods to change the voltage depending on what flavor or PG/VG you are using to get the best results.
     
  15. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I didn't hear anyone mention PGA. Adding alcohol to a flavoring or to a mix will affect throat hit.

    I don't care for 100% PG, although I have some all PG juices around the house that I sometimes vape for a change. Too much PG and my mouth feels shriveled up, even with a glass of iced tea around for sip here and there.

    Atomizers, resistance, and voltage all play a part in taste, vapor, and TH.
     
  16. Astronomer

    Astronomer Super Member ECF Veteran

    I have heard that one Dave... have not tired it :)

    I might though
     
  17. grandmato5

    grandmato5 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    +1 on this answer. I mostly vape zero nic juice now and the wattage and warmth make the largest difference.
     
  18. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    I never disagreed that PG vs VG has some effect on throat hit. My point is the impact is not in the same league as warmth of the vapor/power of batteries and nic strength.
     
  19. Astronomer

    Astronomer Super Member ECF Veteran

    Good because we know that the PG/VG ratio does have an influence on throat hit.

    Other things may as well, but there is no question that the ratio certainly does
     
  20. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Thank you, grandmato5. I sometimes see a question on how to get great throat hit. I then read a response from someone who only uses mini PV's or weak battery ones and has actually stated they don't like throat hit and that they have never used a better battery PV. How can that person tell someone how to get great throat hit? How do they even know what great throat hit is? Occassionly I see posts where someone states they want little to no throat hit and wants their PV to be as small as possible but wants 6+ hour battery life. I skip over those questions because I know I am not the best person to answer that kind of question and that there are others more qualified than I am.
     
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