No smoking or E-cigs in cars with children in Tempe, AZ

[Lessifer]

Here's a really good one, it's a bit long though Safety evaluation and risk assessment of electronic cigarettes as tobacco cigarette substitutes: a systematic review


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[aceswired]

I'm sorry, what about this is good or common sense?

It's good that it reminds people to have more common sense. Which is probably pointless, because people are so invested in believing vaping is 100% safe with no possible side effects that they refuse to acknowledge the basic truth that at this point, there's a lot we really don't know.

Do you also feel it is wrong to vape in a home with children around?

Yes. Of course it is. It's wrong to force anyone who does not have the choice to take on whatever risks we choose to take on.

Personally, I think vaping is safe enough. As an adult of sound mind, I get to make that choice for myself. I don't get to make it for others. This is really simple.

What about in a building with non-vaping adults?

It depends on what choices they're given. It isn't my place to force my choices onto others.

What about on a beach with non-vapers in the vicinity?

Shouldn't be a problem as long as everyone in the vicinity has the choice on whether to breathe the vapor. In an open-air beach the exposure area would be pretty minute and easily avoided by those who so choose. So long as you don't set up next to a baby or an invalid, I don't see any problem with that.

Without some verifiable health risk, there should be no restriction of activity.

Well then, by that argument, the burden of proof argument frees us all to blow nicotine-laced clouds in babies' faces. Right? And before you object, understand that the difference between vaping in a car with kids and blowing clouds in a baby's face is only one of degree.

 

[hashtag]

I vape in my house with my kids home, I have a fan behind me and another by the window that ventilate the vapor out of the air. I don't worry about it having an impact on my kids at all. I would be very unlikely to vape in a more enclosed space with them around but don't see it anywhere near the way I do smoking around children.

 

[Lessifer]

It's good that it reminds people to have more common sense. Which is probably pointless, because people are so invested in believing vaping is 100% safe with no possible side effects that they refuse to acknowledge the basic truth that at this point, there's a lot we really don't know.


Yes. Of course it is. It's wrong to force anyone who does not have the choice to take on whatever risks we choose to take on.

Personally, I think vaping is safe enough. As an adult of sound mind, I get to make that choice for myself. I don't get to make it for others. This is really simple.


It depends on what choices they're given. It isn't my place to force my choices onto others.



Shouldn't be a problem as long as everyone in the vicinity has the choice on whether to breathe the vapor. In an open-air beach the exposure area would be pretty minute and easily avoided by those who so choose. So long as you don't set up next to a baby or an invalid, I don't see any problem with that.


Well then, by that argument, the burden of proof argument frees us all to blow nicotine-laced clouds in babies' faces. Right? And before you object, understand that the difference between vaping in a car with kids and blowing clouds in a baby's face is only one of degree.

I don't know of anything that is 100% safe, and if that is the standard, of course it's going to fail. By that logic though, you shouldn't take your kids in the car period.

So, what is the criteria for being safe enough to do in direct contact with children? Nicotine levels in "SHV" are negligible, as are anything else that has been studied to date.

When did we become a society of "We have no idea if this is harmful, and no scientific basis to think that it is, but just in case, let's ban it!"?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

While that is true you are not doing anything that is illegal or inherently dangerous by smoking or vaping in your car. By them passing this law it opens the door for them to do the same thing with the effected area being that of ones own home and that is not counting the fact that it is also making it indefinitely easier to restrict what you can or not so in your own home or car which brings us to the more important issue which is that it's the government overstepping its authority and if nobody stops it now then what else will they do?

It is now illegal in Temple AZ if kids are in the car. Just drive a truck and put them in the bed. It is legal in FL if they are migrant workers, illegal for all others.

 

[Mitchell.martel]

It is now illegal in Temple AZ if kids are in the car. Just drive a truck and put them in the bed. It is legal in FL if they are migrant workers, illegal for all others.

It is only illegal in that city because of politicians that in acted a feel good law (pointless and ineffective/unenforceable). And it IS illegal to drive with kids in the bed of a truck and that's much more of a hazard than vaping or smoking with a kid in the car could ever dream of

 

[Robert Cromwell]

It is only illegal in that city because of politicians that in acted a feel good law (pointless and ineffective/unenforceable). And it IS illegal to drive with kids in the bed of a truck and that's much more of a hazard than vaping or smoking with a kid in the car could ever dream of

yep unless you are in FL and they are migrant worker kids. They got an exemption for migrant workers to ride in the back of pickups.
That was 12 years ago they may have changed the law by now but I doubt it.
We do have a caste system in the USA.

 

[Mitchell.martel]

yep unless you are in FL and they are migrant worker kids. They got an exemption for migrant workers to ride in the back of pickups.
That was 12 years ago they may have changed the law by now but I doubt it.
We do have a caste system in the USA.

Be that as it may how is this relevant to Tempe AZ overstepping their authority and creating a precedent that says they can take freedom of choice away from us "to protect the children!" When their is no significant danger or no evidence supporting what they wish to be true? Granted the cigarette aspect has data supporting it but it is still then overstepping their authority

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Vote different people in.

 

[tvapernow]

Here's a thread about one QUESTION........How harmful is second hand e-cig vaopr? Credible answer now! | E-Cigarette Forum
There are others.

The key is not zero risk, but rather no SIGNIFICANT risk. Nothing in this world is without risk.

Nothing in this world is zero risk. Breathing Southern California air has plenty of risk. You might go up and breathe deeply in the clean Mountain air just in time to have an avalanche bury you

 

[Panorama911]

I wonder if this is any merit....I read an article that said in a 12mg cigarette the smoker actually only gets around 1mg nic absorbed. Now it is true that an E cig the absorption rate is lower and/or not as instant. So if this is factual and since E cigs do not emit any second hand vapors unlike tobacco, only the child during exhale would be exposed.

So if the absorption is 1mg in tobacco, would it not be less in liquid and thus be so minimized to a second hand vapor inhaled it would not be of harm in any manner?

Am I making sense here!?

 

[Mitchell.martel]

Nothing in this world is zero risk. Breathing Southern California air has plenty of risk. You might go up and breathe deeply in the clean Mountain air just in time to have an avalanche bury you

Lol having a good Friday night with your girl in the back of your truck isn't even without risk...how screwed up is that?

 

[Mitchell.martel]

I'm just going to leave this here FAQ: Nicotine (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

 

[Mitchell.martel]

I wonder if this is any merit....I read an article that said in a 12mg cigarette the smoker actually only gets around 1mg nic absorbed. Now it is true that an E cig the absorption rate is lower and/or not as instant. So if this is factual and since E cigs do not emit any second hand vapors unlike tobacco, only the child during exhale would be exposed.

So if the absorption is 1mg in tobacco, would it not be less in liquid and thus be so minimized to a second hand vapor inhaled it would not be of harm in any manner?

Am I making sense here!?

That sounds plausible to me

 

[azsungal77]

[Deleted]

They are never happy, always the harassment. Have seen signs posted with no vaping allowed

 

[Mitchell.martel]

They are never happy, always the harassment. Have seen signs posted with no vaping allowed

I can understand not wanting vapers to start cloud chasing and what not in your business but if it's at a reasonable level I don't see why they will complain...but they will [emoji29]

 

[lsprn]

I don't live in Tempe but I can see this happening anywhere the government feels it has a right to 'Govern'. Regulations are becoming mindless legalized invasion of privacy..Smoking kills this is proven so why not just ban smoking material..no they just keep taxing it..eventually Vaping will become another regulated Taxed commodity. Can't Vape in your car, what's next your House!

 

[aceswired]

I don't know of anything that is 100% safe, and if that is the standard, of course it's going to fail. By that logic though, you shouldn't take your kids in the car period.

So, what is the criteria for being safe enough to do in direct contact with children? Nicotine levels in "SHV" are negligible, as are anything else that has been studied to date.

When did we become a society of "We have no idea if this is harmful, and no scientific basis to think that it is, but just in case, let's ban it!"?

This is a failure of logic. Taking kids in the car does carry risk. But the reward FAR outweighs that (going to school, buying groceries, doctor visits, etc). Vaping in the car with them carriex no reward, other than to satisfy one person's inability for self control.

Risk is fine. Pointless risk is not, at least not when you're making that choice for others.

This really is simple folks. It really is.

 

[KattMamma]

Risk is fine. Pointless risk is not, at least not when you're making that choice for others.

Pointless risk is not ok, even if the risk is so small it's almost non-existent?

Then don't turn on the tv when children are around - watching tv is pointless, and it carries a risk of radiation.

Don't let children play with electric trains - they might be electrocuted.

Don't give them food from the grocery store or anywhere other than your own non-GMO, pesticide free garden.

etc.

Negligible risks shouldn't be regulated.

 

[mcol]

I don't live in Tempe but I can see this happening anywhere the government feels it has a right to 'Govern'. Regulations are becoming mindless legalized invasion of privacy..Smoking kills this is proven so why not just ban smoking material..no they just keep taxing it..eventually Vaping will become another regulated Taxed commodity. Can't Vape in your car, what's next your House!

Actually yes, in some areas. Remember how they pecked away at smoking, and in some
areas it IS illegal to smoke in your house. The goal it seems at this point is to get them
classified as a tobacco product and lump them in with cigarettes, etc.