Noob DIY'er Questions...

[Shy One]

Greetings all,
I've been vaping for over 4 years but new to DIY. Preparing for the worst so I am going to dive into DIY. Actually kind of looking forward to it!

So I've been reading threads about what nicotine base to buy. It looks to me that some sites have the nicotine sold "separately", and some are mixed into the VG/PG. (and you can buy the pg/vg ratio and the nicotine level you want). Am I getting that right?

I am planning on buying nicotine for "deep storage". It is better to buy the nicotine without the vg/pg in it?

I am thinking it would be better to buy the nicotine by itself so that I am not married to a certain pg/vg ratio.

Also after spending hours reading about nicotine vendors these are the ones that seem to get consistently good reviews:

ECX
VZ
CXTC
Vape Clarity
Nicselect
VT Premium
Nude Nic
Nicobrand
Vaperstek

I like a good throat hit, and no "pepper". I am in the US. Any feedback would be great, and if I got something wrong please lmk!

A while ago I bought some small bottles of pg/vg with the nic in it, as well as some flavors, and I made my first juice last week. It actually wasn't bad! I made a simple chocolate mint flavor and I was pleasantly surprised

Thanks to all!

 

[Train2]

Something's gotten you confused - ALL the nic we buy for DIY is nic in PG or VG or some mix of both.
There IS such a thing a pure nic, but
a) You're not allowed to talk about it here
and
b) it's deadly. Poison. You need a full protective suit and special ventilation to work with it.

Most people get 100 mg/ml as their nic base. That's a plenty high concentration and is readily available (for now). You have to decide if you want PG or VG or a blend.
That kind of depends on what you want to MAKE - if you make high-VG juice, you may need to start with VG Nic base.

Of the brands you posted, the ones I see ALL the time with good references are VapersTek and NudeNicotine. You could also check out Wizard Labs.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Sounds like you are doing great. As you probably know nic comes in various different strengths. Get whatever strength you are comfortable with. Most of the DIY folks prefer the 100mg simply because its easy to do the math when diluting it and its the best bang for the buck.
Any strength of nic that you buy will come in a carrier liquid of either pg vg or a mixture of both. You would then dilute it down to more workable levels using pg/vg. The ratio is entirely your choice. Most prefer to go with what is easiest for them. ie....If your finished ejuice has a high level of vg, then it is easier to mix if your nic comes only in vg because you would use less pg to complete the 100% full bottle.
I hope this is making sense....

 

[Shy One]

Yes! Thank you for your replies. I got confused when I was looking for pg/vg/etc on a website and it looked like there was also an option for pure nicotine. That was a head scratcher for me as when I bought my first little "test kit" about a couple of years ago I bought vg/pg with the nic in it. Phew! So that answers that!

I like the option of buying 100mg/ml as I have found my nic usage/amount has varied over the years. Started out with 24 mg! So it is great to be able to customize the amount based on how much I am vaping at any given time.

Another question:
So I am a bit old school and haven't fallen in love with sub-ohming. I use 20W isticks and use cartomizers (really feel like I get the best flavor from them), and also carto-tanks. I vape around 70PG/30VG @12mg. During my reading here it seems that peeps like to buy the PG with the nic and then the vg with no nic.

Does that sound like the best route for me?

Many thanks

ETA: apologies for posting about things we shouldn't

 

[Rickajho]

Not necessarily. Probably the greatest aspect to consider is where you typically like to land in your PG/VG mix ratio. The sub ohm crowd is heading in the other direction so getting nic in a VG base makes more sense for most, but you are using relatively high PG in your mixes instead.

On a very practical level, the best thing you can do is grab one of the mixing calculators posted here, plug in some numbers for a few theoretical mixes and see if getting the nic in a PG base works best for you.

 

[Shy One]

Sugar and Spice - I just re-read your reply and I think you answered my question. Yes to ordering all my nic in PG and then leaving VG without nic.

And Train2 - I get confused easily, that is why I lurk so much on this board to try to get my head on straight

Thanks again

 

[BrotherBob]

So I am a bit old school and haven't fallen in love with sub-ohming. I use 20W isticks and use cartomizers (really feel like I get the best flavor from them), and also carto-tanks. I vape around 70PG/30VG @12mg. During my reading here it seems that peeps like to buy the PG with the nic and then the vg with no nic.

Same preference here. 100mg+PG and unflavored VG. Might want to buy unflavored PG and VG in best effective cost quantity (1 gal VG % 1 qt.[30/70VG] was good for me as a single user). Good questions, shows you have done your homework.

 

[Shy One]

Brother Bob, since we seem to be on the same old school page, do you have a recommendation of which vendor to buy my pg nic? I mentioned some in my original post that seemed to get a lot of positive reviews, and Train mentioned a couple more. I was searching for nic that has a really good TH and no "pepper".

And yes, I plan on buying in bulk


Many thanks for all your replies and kind words. As my handle says, I am a bit shy. But the FDA regs are forcing me to think ahead and learn about things I don't know about. This board is the best!

 

[Mikedin]

I personally buy my 100mg nic in 100% VG it works well in the freezer for storage and I vape 30pg/70vg so it makes more sense , plus most flavorings use pg as a base , just about every single one of my mixes uses (120ml bottle for example ) 12% flavorings (pg base) 80mg VG and 20ml PG (due to it already having all that pg in the flavorings , to me it made sense to buy the VG based nic

In the end when I bought my fly cube from essential depot my order was missed packing for a week to my surprise instead of just getting 3 gallons of VG and 1 gallon of PG they also took it upon themselves to send me a free gallon of VG and a free gallon of pg along with a PHONE CALL apology for the delay and to inform me of the free VG and PG (yes shipped for free and everything!) I highly reccomend them for their gly cubes

Also I enjoy that peppery taste to my nic , it allowed me to cut from 6mg to 3mg with essentially cut my nic usage in half (myfreedomsmokes nic) I will be ordering another liter of 100mg nic in 100% VG

Good luck in your ventures of DIY I can't even begin to tell you how much money I saved in the 6 months I've been making my juices! And you will enjoy it so much more knowing hey...I would like a bit more apple flavor in is juice and being able to just go ahead and do it!

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

For what it's worth, I'd recommend the 100mg in VG base.

At 100mg strength, you're going to be adding relatively small amounts of your nic-base to any given juice you make, probably 25-30% at the absolute most- most likely much, much less than that, even.

So, if you look at the ratios of VG/PG that people commonly prefer, VG nic base will let you make any of them.

About the highest PG rate I've seen used is 50%, but I've seen plenty of juices with VG used in the 80%, 90%, and even "max" range.

So...if you go with PG nic, you could never make high-strength (28mg, 36mg) in a high-VG ratio.

On the other hand, the only option you lose with VG nic is high-strength in the 60% or 80% PG range- which I don't recall ever seeing. Too, if you find you prefer high-VG or end up making juice for someone who can't tolerate PG, you're good to go.

The clincher for me, though, was following Kurt's posts on long-term storage. As a chemist, he said he was more confident in the long-term viability of VG base. I don't recall him ever saying that PG wouldn't last, only that VG likely had an advantage for long-term cold storage.

$0.02

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

For what it's worth, I'd recommend the 100mg in VG base.

At 100mg strength, you're going to be adding relatively small amounts of your nic-base to any given juice you make, probably 25-30% at the absolute most- most likely much, much less than that, even.

So, if you look at the ratios of VG/PG that people commonly prefer, VG nic base will let you make any of them.

About the highest PG rate I've seen used is 50%, but I've seen plenty of juices with VG used in the 80%, 90%, and even "max" range.

So...if you go with PG nic, you could never make high-strength (28mg, 36mg) in a high-VG ratio.

On the other hand, the only option you lose with VG nic is high-strength in the 60% or 80% PG range- which I don't recall ever seeing. Too, if you find you prefer high-VG or end up making juice for someone who can't tolerate PG, you're good to go.

The clincher for me, though, was following Kurt's posts on long-term storage. As a chemist, he said he was more confident in the long-term viability of VG base. I don't recall him ever saying that PG wouldn't last, only that VG likely had an advantage for long-term cold storage.

$0.02

When I first started to DIY I too went with 100mg vg. My mixes usually end up aroung 50/50-60/40 range. But I found that working with vg is much harder because it is so thick. I know many 'thin' it down, etc. but I found myself making more messes than it was worth. My hands cannot hold onto things quite like they used to. So when I switched to 100mg pg, it made it easier because I could pour and be done rather quickly, instead of having to hold the bottle for an extended period of time. As we grow older, sometimes we have to make adjustments. This worked for me.

 

[Mikedin]

I usually make batches between 120 and 400ml , I have never needed to use more than 7ml or so for a 400ml batch (3mg is what I vape so yes it would need much more if you. Vape say 12mg but in these trying times I'd suggest toning down on the nic unless you have gallons laying around...and if you do let me know if like to buy some off you lol...but back to the subject I use a 10ml luer lock syringe with the needle off to measure my nic , it's not too hard to get it into a needle with the tip off of it

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Oh I cheat even more than that. LOL. I use the syringes and put those luer tips on instead of the needle and use them close off the syringe to measure all my liquids. I use a 60ml for pg/vg and any where from 1ml syringes up to 30ml syringes to mix flavors and some pg/vg.
I just could never get any liquids through the needles without a big mess, no matter what gauge I used.

 

[Shy One]

Wow, lots of great posts. Thanks Peeps. Right now I do vape at 70PG/30VG @12mg nic. Obviously I am not sub-ohming. I realize that if things get really, really bad I am going to need to change to sub-ohming with equipment that I can be "self sufficient" with. That would also drastically alter my pg/vg ratio and nic levels.

Yikes this is giving me a headache. I'm so stressed about the upcoming regs. (like I'm sure everyone else is).

Many thanks again.

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Wow, 70/30 PG/VG? Then you'd definitely be safe with PG nic base. I didn't realize that anyone used PG in that high of a ratio, but a quick Google search showed me what I didn't know.

As others pointed out, VG base can be hard to draw up in a syringe. I just bottled 3L last night, 50mL at a time, and my fingers are sore this morning.

Don't let this give you a headache. You're in the process of making your own insurance. Once I laid up enough nic base to last a long time (and then just added a little more), and made some of my own juice, I found a sense of relief. I'm no longer worried. Still mad, just not worried.

 

[Mikedin]

Wow, 70/30 PG/VG? Then you'd definitely be safe with PG nic base. I didn't realize that anyone used PG in that high of a ratio, but a quick Google search showed me what I didn't know.

As others pointed out, VG base can be hard to draw up in a syringe. I just bottled 3L last night, 50mL at a time, and my fingers are sore this morning.

Don't let this give you a headache. You're in the process of making your own insurance. Once I laid up enough nic base to last a long time (and then just added a little more), and made some of my own juice, I found a sense of relief. I'm no longer worried. Still mad, just not worried.

Absolutely , I have a friend getting into DIY I only know through Instagram I pointed him here and gave him the link above with all of the DIY links , I've never been happier than now once I started making my own juice it's a world of relief knowing I have years of juice available and its whatever flavor I choose to make ...and the money savings is just a MASSIVE bonus

 

[Mikedin]

If you do like to measure your nic with syringes like I do I suggest a 10ml luer lock syringe with the needle tip removed , it draws 100% VG nic very easily

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Easier, but still a heavy vacuum-pull.

For bottling, I use a 60mL syringe without a needle installed, and doing 50odd bottles will still wear out your fingers.

 

[Mikedin]

Easier, but still a heavy vacuum-pull.

For bottling, I use a 60mL syringe without a needle installed, and doing 50odd bottles will still wear out your fingers.

Yeah, recently started to do the major measuring with my graduated cylinder then finish it off in the syringes, but I've done 120's with my syringes no problem, with the 400ml batches...not a chance lol an extra ml or 2 of VG from the cylinder doesn't bother me it's not enough to make a
Difference in 120-400ml batches, the pg is easy to pull and goes quick with 6 or 7 syringes full

 

[VNeil]

My 100mg nic is 50/50. It is easier to work with than VG, and the PG is an antibacterial. There are supposedly some benefits to VG for long term storage. I threaded all those needles and ended up 50/50

No right or wrong, just thought I would add my 2 cents