FDA Not e-cigs, but someday we'll see lots of e-cig articles like this
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Let me simplify it for you, if I may.
When did you start vaping? 2015? Everything you're using right now is not SE, per their deeming regs, and thus illegal.
I started in 2009. Everything I'm using is illegal--mods, juices, drip tips, tanks, RBAs, kanthal, Japanese organic cotton...
Having said that, even Zeller admitted that the grandfather date of 2007 is problematic, but they (FDA) have no way of changing it--only Congress can do it.
The rest is pure speculation and wishful thinking and crystal balls.
That doesn't explain his apparent contradiction that the FDA has to do it, but that he believes that they won't.Let me simplify it for you, if I may.
When did you start vaping? 2015? Everything you're using right now is not SE, per their deeming regs, and thus illegal.
I started in 2009. Everything I'm using is illegal--mods, juices, drip tips, tanks, RBAs, kanthal, Japanese organic cotton...
Having said that, even Zeller admitted that the grandfather date of 2007 is problematic, but they (FDA) have no way of changing it--only Congress can do it.
The rest is pure speculation and wishful thinking and crystal balls.
I started vaping at the end of June 2013, and immediately cut down smoking to just a few drags here and there, 'til it was days in between, and completely stopped July 19, 2013. The change was so abrubt, it really caught me by surprise. All the stuff I used then, and the stuff I use now (with the exception of the PG and VG I buy from pharmacies), would be removed from the market if the FDA deeming goes through.
I've since tried some old cig-a-likes that had been around longer, but also wouldn't make that 2007 cutoff date, that are too primitive and inneffective to have likely done the trick for me.
He says it's "unlikely." I have no idea why he's saying that. He's a lawyer. Maybe, as Kent suggested, he's already "laying out his 'case' with some pretty good reasoning."
I don't like to speculate, so I can only comment on what's in the deeming regs--and that's bad. Pretty much total annihilation of vaping as we know it.
Right. PG should be safe. Not so sure about VG, though. Early Chinese juices that we all vaped then were 100% PG.
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I doubt you're saying that the FDA might put a stop to be able to buy VG, but in case that's what you mean, I say, no way. They can't and won't.
If you're talking about the safety of VG, I have some worries, but I sure recognize how much better off I am not smoking anymore.
No, but every juice maker using VG will have to have their formulations approved by the FDA--if VG juices are deemed not to be SE to juices manufactured in China pre-2007.
BTW, it has nothing to do with health--just substantial equivalence.
Even if PG turns out to be more harmful than VG or some other diluent, it won't matter.
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I see. Very intersting. And disturbing. Won't really affect me, but many other vapers and prospective vapers.
It will affect everyone.
It's akin to banning word processing because it is not substantially equivalent to a fountain pen. Or a turkey feather.
But it's substantially equivalent to a bomb, in that typing out some stupid law can lead to wiping out thousands of people.
There was an interview with SmokeyJoe that was linked a few months ago. My recollection is that he said the same thing about hardware. That the people in charge were unlikely to take any action against hardware that was on sale prior to the date the rules go into effect. Don't remember all the details, I think part of it was that they could face being deluged by many thousands of applications for recognition of hardware, actually amounting to way more than all their current workload, and they were legally obliged to respond to all of them. It would cost the applicants a lot, but it would cost the FDA a lot too in terms of man hours and other limited resources. Even rejecting every application would involve a significant amount of work for them since they would have to follow the process of justifying the rejection each time, which involves a lot more than writing NO on each form. Another part was that there were other much easier choke points they could use to achieve the same end result, like nicotine, so shutting down all the hardware wasn't a cost effective approach for them.
Missed that interview, but I've heard a lot of differing opinions wrt what the FDA is actually going to do. But those are all speculations, methinks.
They'll have to hire more people! Job creation. It's good for the economy. Win win!
Then we'll just have to raise taxes! It's so simple, Mick! May I call you Mick?
You're assuming that we are dealing with rational people with average IQs who are capable of logical reasoning.
If we did, then yes, they would just need to tax and/or restrict nicotine to gain full control--easy peasy.
Think this one - Bill G with 'smokey joey' not SJ.... but I could be wrong....
Godshall interview exposes how FDA deeming reg bans nearly all e-cig, how vapers can fight back | E-Cigarette Forum
Ummm... then why didn't they do it in 2011???? Why did they have to spend millions of dollars and man-hours, hire lawyers, waste a forest worth of paper, hold meetings and committees and conferences and hearings in order to produce an idiotic behemoth of a document with a bunch of rules that they don't intend to enforce?
Anybody?
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Oh, I most certainly watched that one.
Yeah... probably not that one although it gets into that subject. There was a thread many months ago where the applications thing came up and I responded like you said above - they'd welcome a chance to hire more people and expand government.
But.... I don't think that having thousands (millions) of applications are going to phase them much if they want to shut down the business - they can make up form letters like our congressmen where they address each aspect - "you failed to show substantial equivalence", "you failed to show enough studies to indicated that ecigarettes are safer than cigarettes", "you have a nickel coil where the predicate product had a kanthal coil", etc. etc. etc. Bill reported them having 1000's of applications last year (or 2013) and only 10 or 11 were approved.
Hi all. I have been following the discussion concerning what,how and,why
the FDA would handle the various aspects of equivalency. My prediction
is they are going to go after everything. The whole enchilada,supersized
with a large coke.
PG/VG,flavors,anything DYI related gone. There is no equivalency as no
one was doing it in 2007. All the new hardware and juice mixes,gone.
for the same reasons. Now the question is how can they accomplish this
when they don't have adequate funding and manpower? The good old
fashioned American way. GO to Congress requesting adequate funding
for manpower and resources to do the job Congress tasked them to do.
thousands of new jobs. A tremendous increase in scope,size and power.
Plenty of little FDA fiefdoms to create and pass around to loyal cronies.(Zeller and friends)
Good old American know how will save the day.
Regards
mike
the FDA would handle the various aspects of equivalency. My prediction
is they are going to go after everything. The whole enchilada,supersized
with a large coke.
PG/VG,flavors,anything DYI related gone. There is no equivalency as no
one was doing it in 2007. All the new hardware and juice mixes,gone.
for the same reasons. Now the question is how can they accomplish this
when they don't have adequate funding and manpower? The good old
fashioned American way. GO to Congress requesting adequate funding
for manpower and resources to do the job Congress tasked them to do.
thousands of new jobs. A tremendous increase in scope,size and power.
Plenty of little FDA fiefdoms to create and pass around to loyal cronies.(Zeller and friends)
Good old American know how will save the day.
Regards
mike
How about cotton balls, @skoony, will they be gone too?
PG will not disappear from feed stores or Tractor Supply.
VG will not disappear from vendors who cater to people who make their own soap or skin care section of
Flavors will not disappear from vendors who cater to people who use them in foods.
The FDA does not have the authority to make that happen and knows it would get shot down in the courts if it tried.
DIY may become less convenient than it is now, but it will be possible, *if* you have nic.
Nic is the obvious chokepoint.
Got nic?
PG will not disappear from feed stores or Tractor Supply.
VG will not disappear from vendors who cater to people who make their own soap or skin care section of
Flavors will not disappear from vendors who cater to people who use them in foods.
The FDA does not have the authority to make that happen and knows it would get shot down in the courts if it tried.
DIY may become less convenient than it is now, but it will be possible, *if* you have nic.
Nic is the obvious chokepoint.
Got nic?
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