obamacare and vaping?

[DC2]

There are countless stopped smoking testimonials ...
I suggest there are countless e-smokers which still smoke from time to time.
Only the "I totally 100% stopped smoking" testimonials are ECF PC testimonials
which get KUDOS.

My personal opinion...

I think the number of people that still smoke is quite a bit less than you think.
You may be forgetting (or not believing) how many people find cigarettes disgusting now.

Having said that, I still smoke a cigarette every now and then, but I often say that in my posts too.
I maybe average one every two months, and yes, they do taste pretty bad to me but it doesn't bother me all that much.

What I like about electronic cigarettes is that I no longer NEED cigarettes now that I have a better alternative.
I long ago reached the point where I am not afraid of cigarettes, they hold no power over me anymore.

But if electronic cigarettes were taken away, I would go back to cigarettes for sure.
I have no intention of ever ending my nicotine intake, and I will always need something to play with when I'm drinking.

 

[Uma]

This whole thing seems stupid.
How can vaping be considered smoking? It has nothing to do with tobacco.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all the health problems come from the actual tobacco? Nicotine by itself does not cause COPD and the multitude of other heath problems that tobacco does. So why should we have to pay a fee? Dumb.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

Tobacco is not the culprit. Smoking is. If we were addicted to smoking dried tomatoes and red peppers rolled in lettuce leaves, we would have the same problems, because it's the smoking that hurts. Moderation is okay, if not somewhat healthy because of the stress relieved, but who can do moderation? Not I.

Hmmmmm...off to dry some tomatoes and red peppers....

 

[Uma]

Obama’s main “health” advisor is a stooge of Big Pharma.
FORCES International - Scientific Evidence Portal

 

[cookiebun]

That is odd. Obamacare was passed in 2009 and did not even go into effect until October of this year--just a few days ago in fact. I don"t understand how you had an Obama plan before October 1 of this year. I am sorry about your arm. I guess we are about even on bone breaks. I broke my left foot about 20 years ago--double break.a wishbone break, 9 years ago I fractured my left knee and broke my right foot in a silly home accident. Fortunately,I have had no upper body bone breaks.

The law has many parts which have been phased in over the years since it was passed. 80/20 rule, pre-exsiting conditions , 0 co-pays for standard preventative medical tests. The biggest and most controversial part of the law goes into effect 2014. How the heck did you miss the earlier stuff it's been all over the news for years?
https://www.healthcare.gov/how-does-the-health-care-law-protect-me/


To answer your earlier question, yes I vape a little, I just don't use nicotine. The company I work for has 2500 employees

Honestly, Id have been very happy with just the 80/20 rule.
Breaking your arm is no big deal, I've done it twice.

 

[DC2]

Obama’s main “health” advisor is a stooge of Big Pharma.
FORCES International - Scientific Evidence Portal

Well isn't that just perfect then...

William Corr, former Executive Director, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids
William Corr, current Deputy Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services

Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids, founded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation...
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation establishes the National Center for Tobacco-Free Kids

If you add up all the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation grants to Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids it is well over $120 million dollars...

This is just some of those grants...
National Center for Tobacco-Free Kids - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
National Center For Tobacco-Free Kids - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
National Center For Tobacco-Free Kids - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
National Center For Tobacco-Free Kids - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
Rebuilding and sustaining the work of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation

Doubt there is any conflict of interest though.

 

[Petrodus]

Obama’s main “health” advisor is a stooge of Big Pharma.
FORCES International - Scientific Evidence Portal

Why am I not surprised ??

 

[Fulgurant]

My personal opinion...

I think the number of people that still smoke is quite a bit less than you think.
You may be forgetting (or not believing) how many people find cigarettes disgusting now.

It's also worth noting that there's a selection bias in the population here at ECF. People who register on a vaping-enthusiast forum and remain active over a considerable period of time are obviously more interested in vaping than the average person. And although vaping isn't mutually exclusive with smoking, a prolonged interest in vaping strongly suggests a vastly reduced appetite for cigarettes. Likewise, people who have used vaping to quit smoking, often after decades of trying and failing by other means, might be prone to come to a forum like this one to express their gratitude. If you like, they become quit-smoking evangelists.

The point of all that rambling is that the general population of vapers probably has a very much lower success rate than the average ECF member. Do people here exaggerate or bend the truth on occasion? Almost certainly, but just because the statistics say that the average vape-curious smoker only has a <50% chance of successfully quitting, it doesn't follow that the much higher apparent success rate reported here is bogus.

A lot of us are here (or still here) precisely because we feel we've been successful. At least so far

Having said that, I still smoke a cigarette every now and then, but I often say that in my posts too.
I maybe average one every two months, and yes, they do taste pretty bad to me but it doesn't bother me all that much.

What I like about electronic cigarettes is that I no longer NEED cigarettes now that I have a better alternative.
I long ago reached the point where I am not afraid of cigarettes, they hold no power over me anymore.

But if electronic cigarettes were taken away, I would go back to cigarettes for sure.
I have no intention of ever ending my nicotine intake, and I will always need something to play with when I'm drinking.

Well said.

 

[Texaslimo]

What follows is my opinion only.

With regards to vaping and insurance costs, I believe that the cost of insurance should reflect the relative risk of the insured and that cost should be borne by that individual. A smoker should have to pay more than a non smoker because they are more of a risk. The same I believe is true with respect to Police officers, skydivers and accountants. Police officers literally put their lives at significant risk every day. Accountants, not so much. The accountant should not have to pay as much as the police officer because he is less of a risk. Vaping is not healthy. It is less risky than smoking. It is not as safe as only sucking in clean air. I would agree to a proportional surcharge for my choice to vape. Of course, all of this is assuming that the honest truth were in play regarding smoking... Go get 'em CASAA..

With regards to Obamacare, it should have never been passed in the first place. That whole 'you have to pass it to see what is in it' thing still infuriates me to this day. I am a firm believer that the most fitting punishment for those bozos that passed this thing be that their exemption from Obamacare be revoked (it does nothing directly to fix the problem, but it would put a smile on my face). If they were not exempt, they might behave just a tad differently. Socialized health care is a great idea in theory. The reality is that it cannot work unless everyone is taxed at a much, MUCH greater rate (we would never be able to keep up with the costs). Take a look at taxation vs quality of heath care in some other countries that have this model. That is only one aspect. For it to truly work the whole system would have to be rebuilt. This is going to sound much more harsh than I intend, but the truth of it is that the burden of your sickness should not be forced upon me. I have a full time job just dealing with the consequences of my own life.

 

[KjAthena]

congress is NOT exempt from "Obama Care" that is a falsehood that has been propagated.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20131001...-Checker-Is-Congress-exempted-from-Obamacare-

Also the entire Affordable Heathcare Act was available to EVERYONE online (and if requested and printing paid ) both before and after passing
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

I paid for the entire document 1121 pages to be printed and shipped to me April of 2009. the current document is 906 pages.

Always check your facts before you set your mind in stone

 

[NakiFantaki]

Some sort of treatment...like the homeless man who was beaten by some teens. He had many tests including a ct scan, x rays of ribs,arm and shoulder. was bandaged fed breakfast and lunch given prescription for 3 days of meds and referred to see a Dr in 3 days. They found him dead in his tent behind the library 12 hours from his release. It was found he died of a ruptured spleen.

Or the 30 Y/O woman. She presented at the hospital after slipping in the rain running for a bus, Was brought to the hospital unconscious by 911. Tests run, blood work advised to follow up in 3 days, she was released without ever being admitted and test results were not even completed. She died that night from a massive heart attack brought on by a blood clot that traveled from the bruise on her hip

Or the man who was told he was having an anxiety attack and sent home with a referral after 5 hours in the ER. simple tests would have shown he was suffering from a snake bite he didnt know he had received, died sitting against the wall of a free clinic awaiting sign in the next day

Your missing my point. KJ. You said you have witnessed people being turned away and told "no" when trying to be seen in the ER.
Those stories you mentioned above, while they are heartbreaking and no doubt true, they were still seen by a doctor. The hospital failed to provide the correct care and treatment. But they were seen. That's my point. EMTALA. They can not turn anyone away. Well participating hospitals can't. Im sure MOST hospitals in our nation follow EMTALA guidelines.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

[KjAthena]

I do see them turned away and told NO because they are not "emergencies" defined as "not likely to cause death within 24 hours" with NO treatment or being seen by anyone other than triage nurses(there is a printed list of "participating" hospitals given to them upon refusal most in other counties). This has been the policy for 3 of the 5 facilitates I have worked in over the last 5 years locally. The examples I gave were from the other 2 "participating" facilities....had any of the above 3 had any form of insurance even Medicaid they would have had tests completed, and seen more than the 1 overworked ER doctor(or intern). That is what the ACA will do...insure that cases like the 3 I listed (all within 6 months) do NOT occur. There is a HUGE difference in the level of care between insured and uninsured people here in Florida.

 

[DC2]

Vaping is not healthy. It is less risky than smoking. It is not as safe as only sucking in clean air. I would agree to a proportional surcharge for my choice to vape.

Would this surcharge be larger or smaller than the one for living in Manhattan?

 

[DC2]

Socialized health care is a great idea in theory. The reality is that it cannot work unless everyone is taxed at a much, MUCH greater rate (we would never be able to keep up with the costs). Take a look at taxation vs quality of heath care in some other countries that have this model..

The cost of state-of-the-art health care will ensure that the common man can never have access.
It would not even be possible to tax people that much, or anywhere close to that much.

 

[wv2win]

You are assuming the right hand knows what the left hand is doing, these are politicians we are talking about. They don't know what either hand is doing. It's not a clever plot, it's stupidity.

Obama appointed the head of the FDA and the attack by the FDA to have vaping banned began in 2009. That is not a coincidence. The politicians calling for the banning of and/or severe restrictions on vaping, all have one thing in common: they are all liberal Democrats. They know full well what they are doing. They are not stupid. They are obsessed with controlling as many aspects of our lives as possible, fooling as many people as possible to vote for them and doing the bidding of Big Pharm who contribute mightily to their campaign coffers.

 

[KjAthena]

one medication I take costs $ 1238.00 for 60 pills in the USA...the exact same name brand medication, from the same lot purchased in Canada costs $286.00 shipped. The only difference in the cost of the medication is cost regulation (generic is 938.00 USA vs 183.72 in Canada).

 

[Petrodus]

one medication I take costs $ 1238.00 for 60 pills in the USA...the exact same name brand medication, from the same lot purchased in Canada costs $286.00 shipped. The only difference in the cost of the medication is cost regulation (generic is 938.00 USA vs 183.72 in Canada).

 

[scalewiz]

WAKE UP!

Back in 2009 our leaders cried out, These Are Medicines! The people fought back and said NO. Very quickly they backed off, handing it back to us, and said they are tobacco products. The vapers cried out with joy, thinking they would be considered safer, and eventually okay.

Page 2. The people cried out for better healthcare. We played right into their hands saying "It Is Good". Now look what's happening. Anyone using nicotine can be taxed more; in the name of our great dictator and his universal healthcare. Now they don't have to fight us over it. Try as you want to blame it on the pharmaceutical companies; that's okay with our fearless dictator. Blame it on the tobacco companies...that's okay also. The end result is, they own you. They control you. And you hand it to them on a silver platter.

I feel for my brothers in Europe. They want it NOT to be considered a medicine. They fight with their hearts and souls against their tobacco products directive. Where do you think they are headed?

We shoulda killed the .......s when they poked their head out of their holes. Most people are pretty stupid though.

 

[DC2]

one medication I take costs $ 1238.00 for 60 pills in the USA...the exact same name brand medication, from the same lot purchased in Canada costs $286.00 shipped. The only difference in the cost of the medication is cost regulation (generic is 938.00 USA vs 183.72 in Canada).

There might be other reasons for that difference, but that's another discussion.
Don't people from Canada come down here to get better/quicker healthcare if they can afford it?

 

[KjAthena]

In would LOVE a world we would be able to do as we wish and there would be a different category for vapers, separate from non smokers and smokers and I do work toward that goal.

However if forced to choose between the current options...... I would rather have vapeing considered "a "tobacco product" and have a penalty in heath insurance than have it considered "medicine" and require a prescription and regularization only available from "big pharma".

May not make me popular with some, but access for those who may want to make the switch would be difficult to say the least and we would be at the very least greatly diminished.

 

[DC2]

In would LOVE a world we would be able to do as we wish and there would be a different category for vapers, separate from non smokers and smokers and I do work toward that goal.

However if forced to choose between the current options...... I would rather have vapeing considered "a "tobacco product" and have a penalty in heath insurance than have it considered "medicine" and require a prescription and regularization only available from "big pharma".

May not make me popular with some, but access for those who may want to make the switch would be difficult to say the least and we would be at the very least greatly diminished.

It can not ever be considered a medical product after the Judge Leon decision.
That is not one of the current options as that ship has sailed.

The fight now is to make the best of a the likely tobacco product designation.
And "modified risk" tobacco product is probably the best place we can find ourselves down the road.

Although there are still plenty of people fighting for a "none of the above" designation.