obamacare and vaping?

[Barbara21]

There might be other reasons for that difference, but that's another discussion.
Don't people from Canada come down here to get better/quicker healthcare if they can afford it?

Without a doubt, the US has the best medical care in the world if you can afford it.

But our system has two major problems. One is the fact that, on average, Americans don't receive as good medical care as they do in other countries (who spend a fraction of what we spend). This is show by the fact that our life expectancy lags behind these other countries. (I think our rank is in the fifties but don't quote me on that.)

The other problem is that we simply spend too much money on the wrong things. About five years ago, when I was still in nursing school, we were told that one-third of all health care dollars are spent on people that are dead within a month. ONE-THIRD!! Yes, some of that is for accidents, etc. but the big majority of it is thrown at people, mainly elderly, who are simply near the end of their life span. (I'm not anti-elderly, I'm 53 myself and a nurse in a nursing home.) Families say 'do whatever it takes to keep Mom/Dad alive'. I've seen so many many cases where the medical personnel don't want to do certain things because they know it's just prolonging the inevitable but the family insists. It's a real shame.

 

[Uma]

How is that costing the world, when the families are the ones who end up paying thousands and thousands through the nose, as well as the elderly persons years of working and paying for health insurance one way or another, ...

This is why the big push to evict the elderly from their homes, out into the storms, so they'll just hurry up and die. Anti smoking bans campaigners should be sent to solitary prison for life without parole. Most of them are Big Pharma.

 

[Petrodus]

Socialism works
Well ... it works until governments run out of money !! ... CLICK

 

[Petrodus]

If we lie to the government, its a Felony.
But if they lie to us ... it's Politics.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Without a doubt, the US has the best medical care in the world if you can afford it.

But our system has two major problems. One is the fact that, on average, Americans don't receive as good medical care as they do in other countries (who spend a fraction of what we spend). This is show by the fact that our life expectancy lags behind these other countries. (I think our rank is in the fifties but don't quote me on that.)

The other problem is that we simply spend too much money on the wrong things. About five years ago, when I was still in nursing school, we were told that one-third of all health care dollars are spent on people that are dead within a month. ONE-THIRD!! Yes, some of that is for accidents, etc. but the big majority of it is thrown at people, mainly elderly, who are simply near the end of their life span. (I'm not anti-elderly, I'm 53 myself and a nurse in a nursing home.) Families say 'do whatever it takes to keep Mom/Dad alive'. I've seen so many many cases where the medical personnel don't want to do certain things because they know it's just prolonging the inevitable but the family insists. It's a real shame.

My mother went that way.
It was horrible.
I for one will never do that.
I'm not saying I won't fight till the end but they were just keeping what was left of her body ticking and her mind was already gone eaten up by the cancer.
She was in so much pain they could not control my father finally had the doctors give her the next level of pain control which would render her unconscious.

 

[Caridwen]

I am so sick of how many threads get turned into anti Obama rants. This was about whether vaping qualifies as tobacco use, not your political opinions.

Exactly. Anyone have an answer to the OP's question?

 

[KjAthena]

Exactly. Anyone have an answer to the OP's question?

Answer is it depends on your location and the insurance companies policies

Some states/companies charge the surcharge if you vape....others don't

 

[Tatsel_Morte]

Thank the democrats.

Obamacare = 100% voted for by democrats. Not one repub vote.

Proud of yourselves? You shot yourselves in the foot.

That Obamacare was going to penalize all nicotine users was known over a year ago (before Obamacare was passed).

False. To be made law Obamacare had to pass both the House and the Senate. The Senate is a republican majority so there had to be at least a few republican votes. Rather than sling more mud, let's be reasonable and think about how this is really going to affect us.

You'd need to eat 28 pounds of eggplant to get the amount of nicotine in your blood that a smoker has.
There's a 2 year old thread about that here on ECF somewhere.
This is a topic that comes up a lot on ECF.

Edit: Ok I found the old thread. Its 22lbs not 28:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cussion/219410-health-insurance-e-cigs-5.html

Edit for those of you knocking Obamacare:
I guess you don't know what it's like to walk around with a broken foot for for more than six months because you have no insurance. I guess you don't know what it's like to wear SANDALS IN JANUARY (subzero temps) because they are the only shoes that will fit over your broken foot. I guess you don't know what it's like that more than 33 years latter that I can still feel where I broke that foot as I sit here typing. I guess you don't know what it's like to have your WHOLE LIFE revolve around that FRIGGING FOOT THAT YOU BROKE 33 years ago. I have no life outside work, my foot hurts too much.

I have broken my left ankle no fewer than 6 times and never went to the doctor. So, I hate Obamacare AND know that pain. It sucks, but Obamacare isn't the answer to it.

I don't hate Obamacare for being "socialist" like so many of the ignorant in this country. No, rather I hate it for not being socialist. We do need healthcare for all but not this way. We need true socialized, universal healthcare for our citizens. If they increased the tax rate on medicare and medicaid like 2% we would be able to fund it and not be out that much from pocket. I couldn't even afford to give up $100 a month when I was working, let alone now. If however you taxed my income 2% more I wouldn't be out more than I could manage and I wouldn't have to fund some greedy jackass in the process. Just a thought.

 

[Barbara21]

Exactly. Anyone have an answer to the OP's question?

As KjAthena says - it depends.

Personally, if the question (on the insurance form) is 'Do you smoke?', I would say no. If it's 'Do you use tobacco products?', I would say yes. My company asked 'Do you use tobacco?'. I said no. But this is just what I would do - I not saying it's right.

But I think if it came down to it, I'd have a good legal case.

And I think that's what it will come down to - a lawsuit.

 

[Fulgurant]

False. To be made law Obamacare had to pass both the House and the Senate. The Senate is a republican majority so there had to be at least a few republican votes. Rather than sling more mud, let's be reasonable and think about how this is really going to affect us.

Nope. The Democrats controlled both House and Senate in 2009-2010, when the Affordable Health Care Act passed. 111th United States Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(EDIT: That said, AFAIK there were a handful of Republican votes in the Senate -- I think four, but don't quote me on that.)

(EDIT the second: Actually it looks like no Republican senators did vote for it. Hehe.)

I don't hate Obamacare for being "socialist" like so many of the ignorant in this country. No, rather I hate it for not being socialist. We do need healthcare for all but not this way. We need true socialized, universal healthcare for our citizens.

You know, I trend Libertarian on this issue, but I have to agree with you: if we're gonna do this, I'd rather a full single-payer system than the convoluted half-measure mess we seem poised to adopt now.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Well before this thread gets shut down I might as well get my 2 cents in.

The real problem is we have created an unsustainable medical system. We have created such expensive drugs and equipment and such a bloated infrastructure of insurance, lawyers, and medical communities that the general populous (all but the very elite few) cannot afford the high end treatments. It is not sustainable and will collapse one day in the future unless we rein in the likes of the $1,000 pills and multimillion dollar equipment that are used in 1/100,000 of treatments. Socializing medicine will only prolong the inevitable collapse if we don't focus on the everyday treatments and decide that some things are just too expensive to implement. Just about everything that the government has implemented to socialize something has or will fail due to this same eventuality. Anyone check out social security lately? It was originally devised as a voluntary system but was then made mandatory by politicians because everyone should have it. Then it was decided by politicians that the ones that couldn't (or wouldn't) work to put in a fair share should have a slice of the pie also. Then it was used to subsidize more and more that didn't pay in what they were going to get out. If I had invested the same amount of money at the same rate (just my share not what my employers had to put in) at what the current level of the time of savings percentages I would be a millionaire. Yes, I am stupid and didn't do that because uncle sam had my back with social security. We have to get the debt under control and make some real sacrifices as a people or I pity what my great and great grandchildren are going to face.

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now."
Thomas Jefferson Notes on the State of Virginia

 

[Caridwen]

Answer is it depends on your location and the insurance companies policies

Some states/companies charge the surcharge if you vape....others don't

Thanks!

 

[KjAthena]

Alexander, price controls will be implemented...I can assure it, just like with medicare. I KNOW that medicare only allows a charge of 1/4th what I pay for the exact same meds.(still higher than Canada however)

 

[Luisa]

congress is NOT exempt from "Obama Care" that is a falsehood that has been propagated.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20131001...-Checker-Is-Congress-exempted-from-Obamacare-

Also the entire Affordable Heathcare Act was available to EVERYONE online (and if requested and printing paid ) both before and after passing
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

I paid for the entire document 1121 pages to be printed and shipped to me April of 2009. the current document is 906 pages.

Always check your facts before you set your mind in stone

No,but Congress and staff and those who are staffers for the President,get a 70% subsidy. I am not arguing about"pages",but the copy of the bill I read in 2009 was over 2000 pages.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Socialism works
Well ... it works until governments run out of money !! ... CLICK

The government doesn't run out of money, they do run out of other peoples money (that is if they can't keep raising the amount they can put on their credit card)

 

[Racehorse]

Obama’s main “health” advisor is a stooge of Big Pharma.
FORCES International - Scientific Evidence Portal

With all due respect, this seems to be very common with almost all politicians.....republican or democrat...connections to Big Pharma and Big Tobacco.

Mr. Bush's top political strategist was a consultant to Philip Morris from 1991 to 1996.
Al Gore's media consultant worked for Big Tobacco.

I could keep going, but the point is that some of you are naive when it comes to just how big BT and Big Pharma is and has been, they have always been a HUGE lobby and poltiical force in the US, and I can get back to you with just about any Prez in the last 30 years with damaging data on THAT.

In fact, one of the most blatant paybacks for political contributions in US history, in January 2006, Bush-appointed officials at the FDA announced that the agency’s approval of a drug and its labeling acts to preempt product liability lawsuits filed by patients against Big Pharma.

The top two positions at the FDA were headed by Big Pharma representatives in 2006. Big Pharma has controlled the FDA for a long long time, republican or dem presidents, doesn't matter.


I do have to laugh when people act like Obama is the first since so many have been in the back pockets of FDA and Big Pharma, you'd have a real hard time finding any who haven't been

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Well before this thread gets shut down I might as well get my 2 cents in.

The real problem is we have created an unsustainable medical system. We have created such expensive drugs and equipment and such a bloated infrastructure of insurance, lawyers, and medical communities that the general populous (all but the very elite few) cannot afford the high end treatments. It is not sustainable and will collapse one day in the future unless we rein in the likes of the $1,000 pills and multimillion dollar equipment that are used in 1/100,000 of treatments. Socializing medicine will only prolong the inevitable collapse if we don't focus on the everyday treatments and decide that some things are just too expensive to implement. Just about everything that the government has implemented to socialize something has or will fail due to this same eventuality. Anyone check out social security lately? It was originally devised as a voluntary system but was then made mandatory by politicians because everyone should have it. Then it was decided by politicians that the ones that couldn't (or wouldn't) work to put in a fair share should have a slice of the pie also. Then it was used to subsidize more and more that didn't pay in what they were going to get out. If I had invested the same amount of money at the same rate (just my share not what my employers had to put in) at what the current level of the time of savings percentages I would be a millionaire. Yes, I am stupid and didn't do that because uncle sam had my back with social security. We have to get the debt under control and make some real sacrifices as a people or I pity what my great and great grandchildren are going to face.

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now."
Thomas Jefferson Notes on the State of Virginia

did you know that due to regulation, and litigation and the FDA that same $1000 pill in America costs less than $100 in Canada or Mexico

It's not the pill, its the "red tape" that makes it all so expensive, take a wild guess where all that red tape comes from

With all due respect, this seems to be very common with almost all politicians.....republican or democrat...connections to Big Pharma and Big Tobacco.

Mr. Bush's top political strategist was a consultant to Philip Morris from 1991 to 1996.
Al Gore's media consultant worked for Big Tobacco.

I could keep going, but the point is that some of you are naive when it comes to just how big BT is and has been, they have always been a HUGE lobby and poltiical force in the US, and I can get back to you with just about any Prez in the last 30 years with damaging data on THAT.

Agreed, big business and big government holding hands...whether it be a "D" or "R"

 

[KjAthena]

yes they do get a higher subsidy much like they are paid for life...but they are on the same AHA plan as the rest of us....They are NOT exempt. There very well could have been revisions between the copy you got and the one I received (I also just noticed the online version is a different # of pages (lower) due to formatting than the print version) so that may be part of it

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Thanks!

that is until a central controlling entity steps in and sets the rules "across the board"

Would be nice to have up to 50 chances to have different "options" but not if the fed says otherwise

 

[KjAthena]

well I have checked different states and counties and found one carrier charges for tobacco use, others in the same county charges for smoking and others do not even ask. I am sure things will change as the insurance companies find ways to do so much like they do for employer based programs. Alas in Florida we do not even have an exchange...thanks to our wonderful govenor (sic)